Carnival cruise ship bartender accused of raping teen

[halos]

To the posters who somehow blamed this 14 year old girl's parents for her being raped, because they let her be alone on deck at night. . . What is a good age to let your daughter walk the deck alone on the ship to be raped? 17? 18? 21? At what age do you stop blaming her parents for not watching their daughter closely enough so she can be attacked by a rapist? 24? 26? 30?

 

The only person who should be blamed is the criminal. Give the parents a break!! They're suffering enough already.

 

Sorry Dude....I disagree. Of course the crew member is the criminal here, but the parents are guilty of somethign as well.

I'm going to be 48 and I grew up hearing about 'the buddy system'. When I was a kid, I wasn't allowed to wander around on my own. I always had to have a friend with me. If I didn't, my parents were with me. When I raised my girls, they were told the same...they were in NO circumstances allowed to do much of anything alone.

Going to the mall in broad daylight at 14??? BRING A FRIEND.

 

As for wandering around a ship alone, I know there are parents here who think it's fine and safe. Me personally...no.

No way would either of my girls have been permitted to wander a ship alone, especially at night and thankfully, they never would have even considered it so it was never even an issue.

 

When I cruise,or go anywhere else, with my 25 yr. old daughter, I am guarding her.

 

This is the kind of Daddy all girls need and want.

ironically, I believe that a girl who feels protected and loved by her father is less likely to put herself in this kind of situation.....(and I mean intentionally or accidentally) there are studies on this.

 

Guys, you have NO idea how vitally important your relationship with your daughters are.

[Crusin6]

You are taking this written article as fact?

Why would it say he addmitted to it then? Are you saying the article said he admitted to it when he didn't admit to it? So the article is wrong?

[gtouch]

I saw quite a few post about how CCL or cruise lines in general do/should run background checks on their employees. Yes they should but that doesn't help the up to 3000 passengers who get on each week with you and your family. They have no background screening. They may be the pillars of society to parolled felons....who knows. I think this may work as a wake up call to some to put more emphasis on safety and acknowledging your surroundings on future trips. I remember years back on a thread about how old and how late teens you stay out and some actually had almost no restrictions and some none "it was the ships responsibility" on their kids or "they trusted their kids". My response wasn't that I don't trust my kids but I don't trust 3000 strangers with my kids. It may not have been prevented even if the girl was more aware or cautious but maybe others in the future might not have to go through it.

[kyrisong1]

I'm not asking this in any way to excuse anything, but what he h.e. double hockey sticks was a 14 y.o. girl doing alone outside on the upper decks at night?

I am in so total agreement with you on this.

So many times we hear parents here saying "My child is mature and can handle themselves, my child makes good decisions, I am not going to smother the kid"

But this is just one point of how a kid can get in a bad situation even though no fault of their own (if it was really rape which we don't know as Mr Pete points out) but my point is, a mature, capable child CAN be overpowered and hurt and it only takes a few minutes.

Again I'll say, stay with your kids on the ship, don't let them wander alone, predators are everywhere!!!

Carole.

[Crusin6]

In Carnival's (and the journalist's) defense, the incident occurred in April 2009, but the investigation didn't begin until August 2009. I wouldn't be surprised if the data from security cameras is generally dumped before long 4 months has passed. The security cameras are for assessing immediate security risks, not aiding in criminal prosecution (or incidentally increasing Carnival's exposure to civil liability).

Read my post #26....I have a very plausible theory as to the timeframe

[Crusin6]

I am in so total agreement with you on this.

So many times we hear parents here saying "My child is mature and can handle themselves, my child makes good decisions, I am not going to smother the kid"

But this is just one point of how a kid can get in a bad situation even though no fault of their own (if it was really rape which we don't know as Mr Pete points out) but my point is, a mature, capable child CAN be overpowered and hurt and it only takes a few minutes.

Again I'll say, stay with your kids on the ship, don't let them wander alone, predators are everywhere!!!

Carole.

I agree with most of the above post, Carole...as I am a conservative mother raising 4 daughters....but please don't drink the kool aid....it was rape...she was 14...regardless of all the PC commentary...."she may have looked older"..."it was international waters" yada yada.......the girl was harmed regardless as she was 14. It is very hard to justify a 30yo man having sex with a 14yo.....impossible to justify actually.

[gtalum]

Read my post #26....I have a very plausible theory as to the timeframe

 

I don't want to speculate on why she waited 4 months to tell her parents about the incident, but you may be right. The fact remains that companies generally don't hold on to security footage for that long.

[Crusin6]

I don't want to speculate on why she waited 4 months to tell her parents about the incident, but you may be right. The fact remains that companies generally don't hold on to security footage for that long.

The best evidence in this case is his confession, glad he admitted to it...for all involved.

[kyrisong1]

I agree with most of the above post, Carole...as I am a conservative mother raising 4 daughters....but please don't drink the kool aid....it was rape...she was 14...regardless of all the PC commentary...."she may have looked older"..."it was international waters" yada yada.......the girl was harmed regardless as she was 14. It is very hard to justify a 30yo man having sex with a 14yo.....impossible to justify actually.

Oh believe me I'm drinking no kool aid, he is still going to jail for statutory rape, it absolutely is against the law to have sex with a 14 year old in this country and thank God it is!!!

I guess my point was that people need to protect their kids and not just assume they are safe because they are mature or can handle themselves.

I'm more in a preventative mode here.

I believe the laws will take care of him, because I believe in the law. Also I worked in Medical for a short time (couldn't stand the cold horrible environment) at a local prison, I believe the laws of men will also give him his due.

Carole

[kyrisong1]

I don't want to speculate on why she waited 4 months to tell her parents about the incident, but you may be right. The fact remains that companies generally don't hold on to security footage for that long.

Post Traumatic Stress can take years for a person that saw or experienced a terrifying event. Our minds are very powerful and can go into "hibernation" when something has happened that we cannot accept. I'd say being grabbed by a man old enough to be my father and pulled in a private area and raped would qualify.

Poor kid, I'm sorry for her and her family.

Carole

[cupcake26]

For those saying a 14 year old is a 14 year old no matter what and a 30 year old could know better... etc .etc etc..

 

My sister in law is 14 years old, I am 25 - She looks OLDER then me. In fact, she could pass at a bar ANY DAY, and I'll be the one to get carded every time.

 

Add to the fact her mother let her roam the ship on our family cruise, and wear teeny tiny string bikinis, and shes very flirty and naive (just calling it as it is folks).... same thing could've EASILY happened to her, and in sil situation she could've/would've called "rape", but knowing her - it takes two to tango and its a completely different scenario.

 

I'm not saying he's not guilty, but what I am saying, is in today's day and age, you can never ever tell. Never. And kids these days at 10 are doing far more then playing barbies and GI joes..... let alone at 14.

 

There is a fine fine line between No. Don't. Stop, and No, Don't stop. No matter what age you are these days.

[kyrisong1]

For those saying a 14 year old is a 14 year old no matter what and a 30 year old could know better... etc .etc etc..

 

My sister in law is 14 years old, I am 25 - She looks OLDER then me. In fact, she could pass at a bar ANY DAY, and I'll be the one to get carded every time.

 

Add to the fact her mother let her roam the ship on our family cruise, and wear teeny tiny string bikinis, and shes very flirty and naive (just calling it as it is folks).... same thing could've EASILY happened to her, and in sil situation she could've/would've called "rape", but knowing her - it takes two to tango and its a completely different scenario.

 

I'm not saying he's not guilty, but what I am saying, is in today's day and age, you can never ever tell. Never. And kids these days at 10 are doing far more then playing barbies and GI joes..... let alone at 14.

 

There is a fine fine line between No. Don't. Stop, and No, Don't stop. No matter what age you are these days.

he KNEW she was 14, flirty, skimpy clothing, whatever. It's still a crime in this country. I do know there are countries that it is not and I'm not sure what country he is from, but it still doesn't matter, it was a crime against this child. Nowhere in my world is it ok to molest or rape a 14 year old, even if she is a willing participant, she does not have the maturity to decide for herself.

Frankly it's kinda scary to think the mentality of "she was asking for it, just look how she was dressed" is still in play in our society. Rape is rape and no woman/child "asks" for it.

And FYI my 10 year old grand daughter is doing just that, playing barbies and being a kid. My son MAY give her a leash when she's 18 but knowing him ..............lol she's doomed as a spinster.

Carole

[waldocruiser1]

I am in so total agreement with you on this.

So many times we hear parents here saying "My child is mature and can handle themselves, my child makes good decisions, I am not going to smother the kid"

But this is just one point of how a kid can get in a bad situation even though no fault of their own (if it was really rape which we don't know as Mr Pete points out) but my point is, a mature, capable child CAN be overpowered and hurt and it only takes a few minutes.

Again I'll say, stay with your kids on the ship, don't let them wander alone, predators are everywhere!!!

Carole.

 

It should say, stay with your kids and woman, on the ship, don't let them wander alone, predators are everywhere!!!

 

My wife does not go walking around alone on the ship, and she is 50+,

 

Better safe then sorry.

[Crusin6]

For those saying a 14 year old is a 14 year old no matter what and a 30 year old could know better... etc .etc etc..

 

My sister in law is 14 years old, I am 25 - She looks OLDER then me. In fact, she could pass at a bar ANY DAY, and I'll be the one to get carded every time.

 

Add to the fact her mother let her roam the ship on our family cruise, and wear teeny tiny string bikinis, and shes very flirty and naive (just calling it as it is folks).... same thing could've EASILY happened to her, and in sil situation she could've/would've called "rape", but knowing her - it takes two to tango and its a completely different scenario.

 

I'm not saying he's not guilty, but what I am saying, is in today's day and age, you can never ever tell. Never. And kids these days at 10 are doing far more then playing barbies and GI joes..... let alone at 14.

 

There is a fine fine line between No. Don't. Stop, and No, Don't stop. No matter what age you are these days.

Have you ever tried to discuss with your SIL that maybe she should tone down her looks a bit? Sadly, you are correct about some 14yo's looking like adults....but shouldn't there be adults in 14yo's lives that can guide them properly? BTW, some 14yo's are still being raised not to dress like hookers and are actually well regarded.....as evidenced by the number of parents that want them to care for their kids and pay them well.....believe me posters........not all teens are trouble....I am happy to report:)

[LemurCat]

Have you ever tried to discuss with your SIL that maybe she should tone down her looks a bit? Sadly, you are correct about some 14yo's looking like adults....but shouldn't there be adults in 14yo's lives that can guide them properly? BTW, some 14yo's are still being raised not to dress like hookers and are actually well regarded.....as evidenced by the number of parents that want them to care for their kids and pay them well.....believe me posters........not all teens are trouble....I am happy to report:)

 

I gotta say, C6, you made me LOL. True, very true. When did it start becoming a good idea to dress our little girls up as baby hookers?

[cupcake26]

Yes, I know that there are still "good" kids out there. Several of my co-workers children are the same age, and I praise them everyday at their parenting. My parents were tough on me as a child until I got to college - While I hated it at the time, today I thank them all the time.

 

I am also not saying that the girl "deserved" it, nor is it "right" just because they dress or act older. I give no remorse for the 30 year old who did commit such an act. Ultimately it is his decision to move forward with his desires and/or her advances, fully willing and knowing her age as he confessed.

 

But in the hypothetical situation of my Sil - it would still be ultimately the mans fault for continuing on, as said before.... but I would still put 30-40% blame on her, and her mother - because she had no business dressing the way she does, and no business being out alone in the middle of a ship. Unfortunately, in that situation, both have this "rainbows and butterflies" (or what i would call, stupid) mindset...and of course, mom thinks its her vacation too, and being away from the kid is what she deserves.

 

The man is guilty, he confessed it, and YES it is WRONG.... but in my opinion, I wouldn't just pull mom, dad, or girl completely out of the woods. Just as if this situation occured in my own family, I wouldn't pull mil or sil out of the woods either.

 

(and to the poster who asked if i had discussed this with sil.... yes, i had.. and me and fiance sat down with his mom and discussed it - to get yelled at about how its her child and she needs to do the raising, not us...... so... there you have it.)

[DolfanNY]

Once again the thread goes where it shouldn't. Crusin6 you should keep to the thread. The 14 year old is the victim. The bartender should have known better. It is possible that not all 14 year olds who look older aren't guided correctly by their parents. I am a retired Police Officer, a victim is still a victim. Don't critcize someone until you walk in their shoes! Shame on you.

[Crusin6]

I think needs to be mentioned here also....Why are we starting to assume that the girl looked older than her years? She certainly could have been a very innocent looking child, just leaving the teen club and walking on deck. While I agree she should not have been on deck..it should be considered that she judt did not realize the dangers....could actually have looked like a child....and since it was reported that the bartender/criminal did take an interest in the family.....that she would have felt comfortable saying hello to him.

 

We really shouldn't start with the "she probably looked like she was 25" kind of scenario....for she may have looked like a child......and maybe that is exactly why the pedophile bartender raped her. I do not like this scenario one bit.

[kyrisong1]

I gotta say, C6, you made me LOL. True, very true. When did it start becoming a good idea to dress our little girls up as baby hookers?

I was just thinking about you and wondering when the Cat was gonna weigh in on the subject.

So I'll get totally off subject and ask you if you saw the video of the 8 year old girls dance competition? They did "Put a ring on it" by Beyonce.

OMFG these girls danced soooooooooooooo dirty with little midriff tops and stuff.

It reminded me of that when you asked when it became a good idea to dress little girls all slutty.

Now this video, the stuff pedephils dream of, and I'm sure it was copied by a bunch.

Just scares the crap outta me.

Carole

[gtalum]

Post Traumatic Stress can take years for a person that saw or experienced a terrifying event. Our minds are very powerful and can go into "hibernation" when something has happened that we cannot accept. I'd say being grabbed by a man old enough to be my father and pulled in a private area and raped would qualify.

Poor kid, I'm sorry for her and her family.

Carole

 

I understand that and I'm not accusing the girl of doing anything wrong. I'm just pointing out a reason why security video footage isn't being discussed.

[OhioJeff]

I think needs to be mentioned here also....Why are we starting to assume that the girl looked older than her years? She certainly could have been a very innocent looking child, just leaving the teen club and walking on deck. While I agree she should not have been on deck..it should be considered that she judt did not realize the dangers....could actually have looked like a child....and since it was reported that the bartender/criminal did take an interest in the family.....that she would have felt comfortable saying hello to him.

 

We really shouldn't start with the "she probably looked like she was 25" kind of scenario....for she may have looked like a child......and maybe that is exactly why the pedophile bartender raped her. I do not like this scenario one bit.

Because this was in the news article

 

"While on the cruise, T.W. and her parents became acquainted with Krispiyanto. T.W. said Krispiyanto was nice to her and commented that she did not look 14."

[Crusin6]

Once again the thread goes where it shouldn't. Crusin6 you should keep to the thread. The 14 year old is the victim. The bartender should have known better. It is possible that not all 14 year olds who look older aren't guided correctly by their parents. I am a retired Police Officer, a victim is still a victim. Don't critcize someone until you walk in their shoes! Shame on you.

What are you talking about? I responded to the post and pointed out some stuff to that poster. Her sil needs guidance obviously. And if you read what I post...you know I agree the bartender is wrong.......I just don't like when people start to blame the victim. An yep, you are right...some 14yo's are the spawn of morons...but not all are.

[Crusin6]

Because this was in the news article

 

"While on the cruise, T.W. and her parents became acquainted with Krispiyanto. T.W. said Krispiyanto was nice to her and commented that she did not look 14."

I knew they were acquainted but didn't notice his comment......sad that the parents didn't see that his comment was inappropriate and should have been taken as a warning sign. Sounds like there is enough guilt for everyone.....but still the bartender was wrong.

[LemurCat]

I was just thinking about you and wondering when the Cat was gonna weigh in on the subject.

So I'll get totally off subject and ask you if you saw the video of the 8 year old girls dance competition? They did "Put a ring on it" by Beyonce.

OMFG these girls danced soooooooooooooo dirty with little midriff tops and stuff.

It reminded me of that when you asked when it became a good idea to dress little girls all slutty.

Now this video, the stuff pedephils dream of, and I'm sure it was copied by a bunch.

Just scares the crap outta me.

Carole

 

Yeah, actually, I saw it when my father was having open-heart surgery. (No, I'm not kidding.) It's creepy, in that combination of beauty pagent living dolls creepy and the hypersexualization of young girls creepy. And the parents who condone it based on the theory of it being performed at a closed competition are naive or just plain stupid. It's called YouTube, folks. Nothing stays hidden anymore. I actually have nothing against beauty pagents or dance competitions. I just don't understand why people are forcing their kids into the model of "modern beauty" so young. I make it a point of not doing that to my cats, for the good of their self esteem.

[halos]

 

The man is guilty, he confessed it, and YES it is WRONG.... but in my opinion, I wouldn't just pull mom, dad, or girl completely out of the woods. Just as if this situation occured in my own family, I wouldn't pull mil or sil out of the woods either.

 

I tend to agree with you. However, wehat the man (allegedly) did is a crime. What the parents and kid did isn't.

What the parents did was massively irrresponsible. The young girl made bad decisions due to not being guided correctly...that's the horror of the whole thing. Their stupidity made it easy for this guy to (allegedly) do what he did.

 

. An yep, you are right...some 14yo's are the spawn of morons...but not all are.

 

 

 

The parents allowed the kid to be alone.

 

 

 

Morons.

 

 

 

The kid was raped (by force or not by force doesn't matter, it's still a crime) and a 14 year old is a child who is supposed to be taken care of by her parents. They allowed her to be alone...they are at fault for allowing her to be in a bad situation. This isn't a crime, but it is just as bad as a crime IMO.

 

When you have kids, you are supposed to be responsible for them.

I don't care how developed this girl was physically, OR even how slutty she looked or acted, (which makes me wonder about the parents as well....) She is 14 and still a CHILD.