RCI loses 'trumpet lawsuit'

[Captain Jake]

Did I say that I was upset that RCI lost? I asked how the poster could be happy that the plaintiff won not knowing the facts of the case. I am neither happy nor upset as I am aware that I have zero facts. But I was pointing out that jury awards can happen for reasons other than facts. Just because a jury coughed up the money is not reason enough, in my book, to be happy for the plaintiff. Give me the facts and I'll make a decision.

 

My point was how can someone be upset that RCI lost

:cj

[Ocean Boy]

but no proof this was a silly lawsuit.The man was injured on the job.I doubt that he caused himself to slip:rolleyes: .If RCI settled years ago the damages would have been much less.Keep in mind 40% goes to the lawyers.

:cj

 

Yup, one more reason for my somewhat jaded and skeptical views of the US tort system.

[languageartslady]

It's hard NOT to look at cases like this and say that it's another specious lawsuit. Seriously? He hurt his arm and he gets 1.7 million? Did he really hurt his arm so badly that he can't do anything now? Because otherwise he can train in another field. Sure, have the company pay for his new training. But what was the million based on? Lifetime earning potential?

 

I doubt seriously they make that much as ship musicians.

 

Now, I'm not saying that Royal Caribbean shouldn't be held liable if it was negligence that caused his accident. Just that it seems a trifle excessive.

[Ocean Boy]

My point was how can someone be upset that RCI lost

:cj

 

Who is upset about it?

[EVALUATOR]

When someone can win a suit because of a burn from a hot cup of coffee I would say it is getting easier all the time to win ridiculous cases. I am waiting for the followup where someone sues because their coffee was cold and as a result their whole day was just ruined.:rolleyes:

 

What do you define as a hot or cold cup of coffee?

[Ocean Boy]

What do you define as a hot or cold cup of coffee?

 

It is hot if it burns you. It is cold if it ruins your day. Of course , if you wanted iced coffee it is possible that your day could be ruined if it wasn't cold enough. As Clinton said.... it all depends on what your definition of sex is.:eek:

[Captain Jake]

It's hard NOT to look at cases like this and say that it's another specious lawsuit. Seriously? He hurt his arm and he gets 1.7 million? Did he really hurt his arm so badly that he can't do anything now? Because otherwise he can train in another field. Sure, have the company pay for his new training. But what was the million based on? Lifetime earning potential?

 

I doubt seriously they make that much as ship musicians.

 

Now, I'm not saying that Royal Caribbean shouldn't be held liable if it was negligence that caused his accident. Just that it seems a trifle excessive.

 

He still has a bad arm and the pain that goes with it.After lawyer fees and based on a projected life expectancy of 84 and based that RCI is 8 years behind on payments and the low monthly payments for a annuity based on todays low interest rates the award is not that high

:cj

[EVALUATOR]

It is hot if it burns you. It is cold if it ruins your day. Of course , if you wanted iced coffee it is possible that your day could be ruined if it wasn't cold enough. As Clinton said.... it all depends on what your definition of sex is.:eek:

 

When is the coffee too hot or too cold?

[waterbug123]

How can anyone be upset that RCI lost?:confused:.You have zero facts that RCI WAS NOT wrong.If a employee gets hurt on the job its the employers duty to pay for lost wages

:cj

 

 

Question: Was the trumpet player going to earn 1.7 million over the course of his remainer career as a trumpet player?

[cruising_knc]

My understanding is that he slipped on oil that was leaking from a fog machine while he was practicing. Doesn't sound like it was his fault.

[languageartslady]

He still has a bad arm and the pain that goes with it.After lawyer fees and based on a projected life expectancy of 84 and based that RCI is 8 years behind on payments and the low monthly payments for a annuity based on todays low interest rates the award is not that high

:cj

 

But I have a bad back, from breaking it back in high school, and pain that goes along with it. I am also quite young.

 

So?

 

If it was their direct negligence that caused his accident, okay. Otherwise, life is a dangerous thing. It sucks, but people don't owe you anything, just because you did something stupid, or something stupid happened to you.

 

Is it a REAL case? Or is it the stupid coffee case over again?

[critterchick]

When someone can win a suit because of a burn from a hot cup of coffee I would say it is getting easier all the time to win ridiculous cases. I am waiting for the followup where someone sues because their coffee was cold and as a result their whole day was just ruined.:rolleyes:

 

If you're referring to the McDonald's case, my recollection is that they hanged themselves. The reason they lost was that they were repeatedly put on notice that their coffee was unsafely (is that a word?) hot and ignored the warnings. Then they blew off the plaintiff, who originally was only asking to be made whole on her medical bills. And I think the amount of the final award is confidential as part of a settlement agreement made after the verdict, so we'll never know what she really "won".

 

As for the plaintiff, that little snippet doesn't tell us enough to determine whether his suit was frivolous, with or without merit or otherwise wrongly decided by the jury. So I don't have an opinion.:)

[EVALUATOR]

Hot water over 160 degrees will cause 3rd degree burns in less than 1 second.

 

The coffee in the lawsuit was more than 20 degrees hotter than other companies served, or was recommended. The serving company knew it, and did nothing to warn the customer, or prevent or reduce injuries.

 

Quite a few years back, turbulence in an airplane caused a flight attendant to spill a coffee pot over a young passenger. I am not talking about a Mr. Coffee little coffee pot either. I'm talking about one of the 3 gallon commercial type dispensers that was being pushed down the airplane aisle on a rolling cart.

 

Major burns as a result. Would common sense and experience warrant care by the airline knowing possible turbulence is always possible.

 

It was a stupid way to dispense coffee, and the airline paid for the poor decision.

[Ocean Boy]

If you're referring to the McDonald's case, my recollection is that they hanged themselves. The reason they lost was that they were repeatedly put on notice that their coffee was unsafely (is that a word?) hot and ignored the warnings. Then they blew off the plaintiff, who originally was only asking to be made whole on her medical bills. And I think the amount of the final award is confidential as part of a settlement agreement made after the verdict, so we'll never know what she really "won".

 

As for the plaintiff, that little snippet doesn't tell us enough to determine whether his suit was frivolous, with or without merit or otherwise wrongly decided by the jury. So I don't have an opinion.:)

 

That is very interesting about the McDonald's case. And we are in agreement on this case.

[TahoeBob]

When someone can win a suit because of a burn from a hot cup of coffee I would say it is getting easier all the time to win ridiculous cases. I am waiting for the followup where someone sues because their coffee was cold and as a result their whole day was just ruined.:rolleyes:

By posting this shows how little you know about the facts in the the McDonalds coffee case. Third % burns should not happen from a cup of coffee. Please do some research before you post something you know nothing about.

[Captain Jake]

Hot water over 160 degrees will cause 3rd degree burns in less than 1 second.

.

 

I know this for a fact.I was injured in a home accident when a cup of hot water landed on my leg.Lucky I was able to get rid of the clothing a perform first aid quickly but still had 2nd and third degree burns.Had a great deal of pain and discomfort for weeks .The risk of infection from such an injury is high and it limits greatly what you can do while recovering.Gave me a different perspective of the MacDonalds case

:cj

[rian90]

I am willing to pay more for a cruise if it means that the employees will have fair wages and safe working conditions. I can name time after time when people have suffered in the past from unsafe conditions, often unknown at the time. This is why we have worker's comp laws in the US and exactly why cruise ships avoid them.

 

I am shocked and dismayed that anyone would be upset because a jury awarded an injured worker with compensation simply because it might mean they have to pay more in the future. This seems to be a common attitude these days from the top down.

[orville99]

Newsflash: The jury verdict in the McDonald's case was reversed on appeal. The plaintiff ended up getting less than 20% of the original judgement amount($500K instead of $2.7MM), and McDonald's appealed that amount. The final settlement amount was sealed, so it was probably a lot less than that.

 

Last line in the article states that RCI is evaluating its avenues for appeal, so don't expect the awarded amount to hold up.

[EVALUATOR]

I know this for a fact.I was injured in a home accident when a cup of hot water landed on my leg.Lucky I was able to get rid of the clothing a perform first aid quickly but still had 2nd and third degree burns.Had a great deal of pain and discomfort for weeks .The risk of infection from such an injury is high and it limits greatly what you can do while recovering.Gave me a different perspective of the MacDonalds case

:cj

 

I hear you. With the chemo Mrs. E. is on, neuropathy is a very big concern.

 

By the time she figures out the water is too hot, the damage is done. The water temperature in the cabins on RCI's ships is a great concern to us.

 

The showers have the anti-scald valves, but the sinks do not. We have to be extremely careful. I have never taken the temperature of the water in the sinks, but I am sure it is over the maximum recommended level.

[Captain Jake]

Newsflash: The jury verdict in the McDonald's case was reversed on appeal. The plaintiff ended up getting less than 20% of the original judgement amount($500K instead of $2.7MM), and McDonald's appealed that amount. The final settlement amount was sealed, so it was probably a lot less than that.

 

Last line in the article states that RCI is evaluating its avenues for appeal, so don't expect the awarded amount to hold up.

 

Actually the award was reduced to 160k plus 480k for a total of 640k and yes the final agreement was sealed.A lawyer friend of mine said if my injury happened in a restaurant I would get 100k without going to court

:cj

[Jolimont]

If I'd lost my ability to make a living I'd sue too. And I'm sure everyone here would. What are you going to do, give up and die just cause you got unlucky and fell? It's easy for us to say we'd take the high ground, but words are cheap, if it were our problem we'd react differently.

[EVALUATOR]

Newsflash: The jury verdict in the McDonald's case was reversed on appeal. The plaintiff ended up getting less than 20% of the original judgement amount($500K instead of $2.7MM), and McDonald's appealed that amount. The final settlement amount was sealed, so it was probably a lot less than that.

 

Last line in the article states that RCI is evaluating its avenues for appeal, so don't expect the awarded amount to hold up.

 

Actually the award was reduced to 160k plus 480k for a total of 640k and yes the final agreement was sealed.A lawyer friend of mine said if my injury happened in a restaurant I would get 100k without going to court

:cj

 

I think the main point of the coffee lawsuit might be that whether the settlement was $2,700,000 or $200,000, it was far from a frivolous lawsuit.

 

As for the trumpet case, the jury heard the case and gave their opinion.

 

We will probably find out the final results of this one in another 5-10 years.:cool:

[bluegirlum]

There are a lot of things that go into these cases. I deal with worker's comp claims/injury on the job issues every day, and one of the things they look at is whether or not the results of the injury will allow the person to go back to their job at the prior level of performance. Here, I assume the jury did not think he could. He trained to be a trumpeter. That is a very specific line of work, and he expected to make a certain amount of money from that line of work. Sure, he could train to do something else, but due to his physical limitations, he could be severely hindered in his ability to make money doing anything. Things like age, and number of years left to work are taken into consideration, and I'm guessing (GUESSING) that the jury picked that number based on lost wages, medical bills, and future earning potential.

 

The jury also probably looked at whether or not his slipping on the oil could have been foreseen and likely prevented. I don't know anything about fog machines, but do they often give off oil? If so, what did RCI do to prevent this? Part of the 1.7 million is to make sure that other companies that use similar machines are taking the necessary precautions to prevent these kinds of accidents. If it's well known in the fog machine industry and amongst those who use them that these accidents happen a lot, and RCI didn't do anything to prevent it, that would come into play.

 

All that said, we know nothing more than what was in that little article. There are certain factors you look at in these kinds of cases, but none of us were there, so we don't know.

 

Where's Aquahound when we need him?

[FertilityDoc]

There is no other country in the world with the degree of litigation we have in this country. Think about it. He slipped. It could happen to any one us on any given day. Accidents exist in life. There is too much of tendency to assign blame here. It's sad but an unavoidable fact of life. Bad things happen to good people. Also understand that this is not a case of Royal Caribbean "paying up". We all pay for this. Royal Caribbean incurs higher insurance costs or out of pocket fees. This leads to higher travel prices for you and me. Make no mistake we pay for this.

[bluegirlum]

There is no other country in the world with the degree of litigation we have in this country. Think about it. He slipped. It could happen to any one us on any given day. Accidents exist in life. There is too much of tendency to assign blame here. It's sad but an unavoidable fact of life. Bad things happen to good people. Also understand that this is not a case of Royal Caribbean "paying up". We all pay for this. Royal Caribbean incurs higher insurance costs or out of pocket fees. This leads to higher travel prices for you and me. Make no mistake we pay for this.

 

To be fair, he may not have slipped if there hadn't been the fog machine... That would be one of the things they look at. We don't know all the facts, so I don't know. Did RCI tell him to look out for the fog machine, but he was dancing by it anyway? Did he put himself in danger and bear some of the blame? It's not always a simple answer.

 

I'm guessing that if you're a "fertility doc" you have some experience with this kind of stuff. This absolutely drives up insurance premiums and costs everyone else. That's why, if RCI did do something negligent and could have done something to prevent this, they should have. It's about lessening the risk in the future. I would guess RCI is pretty careful with its fog machines now, as are all the cruiselines.