20 Reasons to Hate the Airlines

[Sargent_Schultz]

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/completelist/0,29569,2002620,00.html

[FlyerTalker]

Rather than doing real journalism, another of those "top 20" pop culture lists that really don't inform anyone of anything.

 

Further, they include security rules, which are a governmental regulation, not an airline decision. They complain about narrow pitch, without mentioning how the passengers didn't support airlines that gave more room. Plus, they blame all of these ala carte fees on the airline, not the traveling public that brought them on with their focus on rock-bottom pricing rather than value.

 

And you wonder why Time and CNN are in the position they are today.....

[Sargent_Schultz]

And they don't mention how some discount, no frills airlines of days gone by, are now the leaders in bundled services and NOT nickle and diming customers with absurd and often hidden fees.

 

Yep, legacy journalism is in the toilet along with legacy airlines. :rolleyes:

[Keith1010]

People have gotten what they have asked for. Everyone wants prices to be dirt cheap. Well to do that the airlines had to cut almost everything.

 

I believe and if I am wrong then someone will point this out to me. But I believe that the cost of airfare when adjusted for inflation makes it cheaper to fly today then it was before deregulation of the industry. But the downside to this is that to keep prices cheap quality has sufferered.

 

But in the end, it is, we, the consumers who contribute to this because we want the fare to be cheap.

 

Keith

[YXU AC*SE]

I can't go back to the dawn of deregulation , but in 1995 avg US domestic airfare was 288$. 2009 y/e numbers as expressed in 1995 dollars = 227$ source: RITA, Bureau of Transportation Statistics. http://www.rita.dot.gov/

 

If one is to believe the claims of ATA, "domestic fares having declined more than 50 percent in real terms since 1978" and passenger volumes have more than tripled. source: http://www.airlines.org/ATAResources/Handbook/Pages/AirlineHandbookChapter2EconomicDeregulation.aspx

 

I guess there is still no such thing as a free lunch.

 

Scott.

[hdawson]

For those that don't like todays airlines there are at least two choices. Take the train or bus. OR stay home. There hasn't been much profit for airlines for many years. My line of choice has been profitable nine years out of the last ten and didn't take government handouts after the tragic 9-11.

[Keith1010]

I can't go back to the dawn of deregulation , but in 1995 avg US domestic airfare was 288$. 2009 y/e numbers as expressed in 1995 dollars = 227$ source: RITA, Bureau of Transportation Statistics. http://www.rita.dot.gov/

 

If one is to believe the claims of ATA, "domestic fares having declined more than 50 percent in real terms since 1978" and passenger volumes have more than tripled. source: http://www.airlines.org/ATAResources/Handbook/Pages/AirlineHandbookChapter2EconomicDeregulation.aspx

 

I guess there is still no such thing as a free lunch.

 

Scott.

 

You are correct. There is no free lunch.

 

Everyone wants everthing dirt cheap.

 

The legacy airlines had even more of a challenge to compete on price with the newer airlines from the plane they fly, to the overhead in place, to the contracts with employees and the list goes on.

 

So, as they say be careful what one wishes for.

 

Keith

[fbgd]

And they don't mention how some discount, no frills airlines of days gone by, are now the leaders in bundled services and NOT nickle and diming customers with absurd and often hidden fees.

 

I'm pretty sure if the boot was on the other foot you'd be telling us how bundled services mean you're paying for everything whether you like it or not...

[scottbee]

And they don't mention how some discount, no frills airlines of days gone by, are now the leaders in bundled services and NOT nickle and diming customers with absurd and often hidden fees.

 

I can't think of any airlines that fall into that category (nofrills days gone by), given the one that you're implying charges you to queue-jump for boarding purposes. The ONLY airlines I can think that don't charge for seat selection and baggage within North America are B6 and WS; both of which are relatively young.

[Sargent_Schultz]

Yup. It is all the customers fault that the airlines cut back on services. Nothing to do with labor unions, corrupt and/or incompetent management, inefficient planes or a business model that flat out sucks.

 

Or perhaps the virus killing the automobile industry somehow infected the airlines.

 

Typical - blame the victim. :rolleyes:

 

The legacy airlines are their own biggest enemy.

[hdawson]

Yep! The legacy airlines and their greedy unions.

[Gardyloo]

I started to put together a list of "20 Reasons to Hate the Cruise Lines" but couldn't get past No. 1, Not Enough Lobster.

[FlyerTalker]

And they don't mention how some discount, no frills airlines of days gone by, are now the leaders in bundled services and NOT nickle and diming customers with absurd and often hidden fees.

Among those leaders:

 

PeoplExpress

Kiwi

Midway

New York Air

Skybus

Laker

Independence

Tower

Vanguard

Western Pacific

Air South

Southeastern

Jet America

 

 

Drat....can't seem to find their flights on Kayak, or ITA, or......

 

(and I probably missed a few)

[kenish]

Flyertalker- I could triple the length of your list but won't belabor the point you made. :)

[Sargent_Schultz]

I recognize some of those as decent airlines. How many were bailed out at U.S. taxpayer's expense?

 

The next time a legacy airline goes bankrupt, it needs to stay bankrupt. No more forgiveness for corporate and union greed and/or stupidity, incompetence, whatever.

[scottbee]

Among those leaders:

 

PeoplExpress

Kiwi

Midway

New York Air

Skybus

Laker

Independence

Tower

Vanguard

Western Pacific

Air South

Southeastern

Jet America

 

 

Drat....can't seem to find their flights on Kayak, or ITA, or......

 

(and I probably missed a few)

 

Let's be honest. Laker went under because

a) British Airways ensured the UK CAA kept the DC10 grounded for 6+ months after AA dropped an engine off one (oh look they were the only UK operator)

b) Maggie and Ronnie cut a deal to prevent Freddie from suing the US legacy carriers for anti-trust

[Keith1010]

Yup. It is all the customers fault that the airlines cut back on services. Nothing to do with labor unions, corrupt and/or incompetent management, inefficient planes or a business model that flat out sucks.

 

Or perhaps the virus killing the automobile industry somehow infected the airlines.

 

Typical - blame the victim. :rolleyes:

 

The legacy airlines are their own biggest enemy.

 

In the end, the customers have a good deal to do with all of this.

 

The market demanded lower prices and showed less interest in service.

 

Actually, many will argue it was deregulation that signficantly impacted this along with the no frill airlines.

 

The legacy airlines could have done some things differently as well.

 

Anyway, often I read on this board that someone wants the lowest price flight and compaining that the fare has gone up. Something had to give and it was the quality of service. Just do a search on this forum on fare and you will see what I am talking about.

 

So, be careful what you wish for.

 

Keith

 

Keith

[frugaltravel]

If one is to believe the claims of ATA, "domestic fares having declined more than 50 percent in real terms since 1978" and passenger volumes have more than tripled. source: http://www.airlines.org/ATAResources/Handbook/Pages/AirlineHandbookChapter2EconomicDeregulation.aspx

 

In the interest of full disclosure, the ATA is owned and operated by the airlines themselves.

 

"Figures don't lie but liars sure can figure." :D

[Sargent_Schultz]

In the end, the customers have a good deal to do with all of this.

 

The market demanded lower prices and showed less interest in service.

 

Actually, many will argue it was deregulation that signficantly impacted this along with the no frill airlines.

 

The legacy airlines could have done some things differently as well.

 

Anyway, often I read on this board that someone wants the lowest price flight and compaining that the fare has gone up. Something had to give and it was the quality of service. Just do a search on this forum on fare and you will see what I am talking about.

 

So, be careful what you wish for.

 

Keith

 

Keith

 

It is a matter of Sales 101 vs Marketing 101.

 

Marketing 101 is determining what the market wants and then producing it at a price acceptable to both

 

vs what the Legacy Airlines did

 

Sales 101 - We know better about what you want than you do, this is it, shut up and pay our price.

 

and a number of airlines who understand marketing were born. At least one has thrived for decades despite numerous attempts by legacy airlines to kill off all competition.

 

The legacy solution these days? Charge extra for all services, and we will reduce competition by merging with similar, inefficient airlines. :D

[YXU AC*SE]

In the interest of full disclosure, the ATA is owned and operated by the airlines themselves.

 

"Figures don't lie but liars sure can figure." :D

 

Which is why I stated, "if one is to believe the claims of the ATA". And also why I defer to the DOT's numbers. It is best not to have the monkey in charge of the peanuts. :D Scott.

[hdawson]

ATA is a trade organization. What is hard to understand?

[frugaltravel]

ATA is a trade organization. What is hard to understand?

 

Lots when one just uses acronyms and most have no idea what it means.

 

It stands for Airline Transport Association.