Question about Service Charge

[marinaro44]

$7-10 for a week.

 

$14-15 for a week if they are really good and clean my room twice daily.

Now I understand what the problem is here. $3/day is the normal amount. Oh, well.

[myra711]

I haven't cruised yet (April 2011) but I've been to an all-inclusive resort in the Catskills, and I know that at the end of those vacations we were all running around with little envelopes trying to give tips to all our waiters/busboys/maids/childcare team/whatever. I can't imagine that $12/person/day is out of order for all the people who I anticipate will be helping me on the cruise. For the poster who is surprised about the charge, were you not planning to leave tips anyway to all the service people involved? Weren't you going to give a per person tip vs a per family tip? (Eg. when I am in a hotel by myself I would leave less for the maid than if I have my family with me). When going on this kind of a vacation (ie, all inclusive) and figuring out a budget, gratuities are an expected expense. By the way, I consider myself to be kind of on the cheap side. I will definitely not be doing much drinking or other "extras" but I do know that I will be spending $ on gratuities. Whether you feel this should be the case or not, stiffing the crew will seriously hurt their income. Is that really what you want to do? I feel that a tip is called for if there is reasonable service; no one has to jump through hoops to merit a basic tip. Better service - by all means, give more!

[roveer]

I haven't cruised yet (April 2011) but I've been to an all-inclusive resort in the Catskills, and I know that at the end of those vacations we were all running around with little envelopes trying to give tips to all our waiters/busboys/maids/childcare team/whatever. I can't imagine that $12/person/day is out of order for all the people who I anticipate will be helping me on the cruise. For the poster who is surprised about the charge, were you not planning to leave tips anyway to all the service people involved? Weren't you going to give a per person tip vs a per family tip? (Eg. when I am in a hotel by myself I would leave less for the maid than if I have my family with me). When going on this kind of a vacation (ie, all inclusive) and figuring out a budget, gratuities are an expected expense. By the way, I consider myself to be kind of on the cheap side. I will definitely not be doing much drinking or other "extras" but I do know that I will be spending $ on gratuities. Whether you feel this should be the case or not, stiffing the crew will seriously hurt their income. Is that really what you want to do? I feel that a tip is called for if there is reasonable service; no one has to jump through hoops to merit a basic tip. Better service - by all means, give more!

 

You are still expected to tip on top of the DSC. Keep that wallet open and bring your envelopes too. I fully expected the tipping part. I usually come to CC and figure out what everyone else does and do the same. It was the DSC part not being listed anywhere near the fare or being told by my TA that caught me off guard. This is of course if you were referring to me. Otherwise, never mind. :eek:

[njhorseman]

You are still expected to tip on top of the DSC. Keep that wallet open and bring your envelopes too. I fully expected the tipping part. I usually come to CC and figure out what everyone else does and do the same. It was the DSC part not being listed anywhere near the fare or being told by my TA that caught me off guard. This is of course if you were referring to me. Otherwise, never mind. :eek:

 

That is absolutely false. You don't have to spend one dime beyond the DSC.

[valleyvillage]

MR. WHITE

Uh-uh. I don't tip.

 

NICE GUY EDDIE

Whaddaya mean you don't tip?

 

MR. WHITE

I don't believe in it.

 

NICE GUY EDDIE

You don't believe in tipping?

 

I can't quote much more, it gets pretty raw! Amazing scene.

[myra711]

You are still expected to tip on top of the DSC. Keep that wallet open and bring your envelopes too. I fully expected the tipping part. I usually come to CC and figure out what everyone else does and do the same. It was the DSC part not being listed anywhere near the fare or being told by my TA that caught me off guard. This is of course if you were referring to me. Otherwise, never mind. :eek:

 

 

I am not aware of the need to tip on top of the DSC. I was planning to bring singles for "spontaneous" tipping when so inclined, but I don't plan to tip waitstaff. If I am wrong, I guess I'll be better informed by the time the cruise comes up.

 

Roveer, I was referring to you, and I am sorry if I am incorrect in my reading of your post. It sounded to me like you were surprised that you would have to spend any $ in gratuities.

For me, I am thinking that the DSC will take all the stress out of tipping - who and how much. I still think that the amount of the DSC isn't out of line, but I do know that it can add up for a family.

 

In any event, enjoy your cruise!

[njhorseman]

I am not aware of the need to tip on top of the DSC. I was planning to bring singles for "spontaneous" tipping when so inclined, but I don't plan to tip waitstaff. If I am wrong, I guess I'll be better informed by the time the cruise comes up.

 

Roveer, I was referring to you, and I am sorry if I am incorrect in my reading of your post. It sounded to me like you were surprised that you would have to spend any $ in gratuities.

For me, I am thinking that the DSC will take all the stress out of tipping - who and how much. I still think that the amount of the DSC isn't out of line, but I do know that it can add up for a family.

 

In any event, enjoy your cruise!

 

There is no need to tip on top of the DSC. Of course you are free to tip if someone has provided exceptional service.

 

Your assessment of the DSC as stress-free and in an amount that is not out of line is absolutely on target.

 

Enjoy your cruise.

[Fishbait17]

The only time you need to tip beyond the DSC is for concierge, butler, and child care services that are not included in the DSC.It just amazes me sometimes that people think that tipping is "extra money" for the staff. Apparently, some people here have never worked as a waitress for less than half of minimum wage..... I am a very good tipper, because I worked in the service industry in the USA for years - if you have not, you would simply not understand.... For the service you get on a cruise, $12 pp per day is very low!

 

Robin

[njhorseman]

This is where I went wrong. I did not go on a hunt through the small print. I thought the fare was the fare. I mean honestly, this isn't the cable company or the cell phone company. Well I guess they are now. I stopped reading half way through the fuel surcharge and failed to see there was a statement there about the DSC, not the actual amount mind you (why not I wonder, did they get tired of typing?), why would I have to go searching for it? (found it eventually at #23 in the faq). My TA never disclosed it to me (he's a cruise professional right)? Sure he's been through this discussion a dozen times right? We'll give him a little extra training for the next customer who was looking for some professional assistance. I did find a reference to it in my final payment receipt (after I paid) and then I found another reference in the NCL book that I received after I booked. All very helpful after the fact.

 

I just never expected to have non-disclosed charges (yes the spirit of the law applies here), if it's buried, it's buried end of story. I should not have to have "special knowledge" to know that I must connect several points together and look in several seperate locations to determine the final cost of the trip. I find it sneaky, when it could have been put right there in black and white along with the fair price (an asterick or something) I thought the days of buring extras in the small print were all but over. Shame on me. Nieve no more...

 

It's just easier to be up-front and fully transparent. I read somewhere where someone was saying this is commonplace in the cruise industry. Not the last line I sailed on. The price was the price. No BS, and no additional charge for soda either. At least I knew how much I was paying when I gave the OK. So that's the end to my little rant. Sorry I whipped CC into such a lather tonight. I can see this is an issue that gets a lot of people ticked off. NCL should take note. Everyone have a good night and lets close this thread out and move on to more positive topics.

 

So you stopped reading, and your TA did a lousy job...but it's NCL's fault :rolleyes:

[roveer]

So you stopped reading, and your TA did a lousy job...but it's NCL's fault :rolleyes:

 

That's too easy njhorseman. NCL should have been clearer, it's buried and mixed in different locations on the website. That's not simplified, that's complicated. You just want to argue :eek:.

[roveer]

Thanks for setting me straight.

[njhorseman]

That's too easy njhorseman. NCL should have been clearer, it's buried and mixed in different locations on the website. That's not simplified, that's complicated. You just want to argue :eek:.

 

It was so easy because it's correct. You managed to find and read about the fuel surcharge, but somehow missed the next sentence about the daily service charge, and if your TA failed to disclose something that's no one's fault but the TA's.

[cruiser willy]

.....but I think my question got lost amongst all the bickering.

Again - Can anyone site a source for the claim that ANY CRUISE STAFFERS are suggested or required to report, split or fork-over any cash "tip" provided to them by any cruise ship passenger?…regardless of whether or not their passenger kept or removed the DSC charges from their shipboard account????

Stating why it might or might not be true and arguing how the staff might or might not get away with keeping it does not make it so.

FURTHER.....

The DSC concept began several years ago as a way to simplify the tipping process FOR THE PASSENGER.....or so we've been made to believe.

Since I was a child, and to this very day - TIPPING on a cruise ship has been purely voluntary. There have always been guidelines published in ships' daily bulletins SUGGESTING a per person, per day TIP IF YOU FEEL YOU'VE RECEIVED SERVICE THAT WARRANTED IT. Of course it was a cash transaction then, given in envelopes. My family always used the then current GUIDELINE to provide a cash tip to our waiter, busboy, and cabin steward(s). If any other particular staff member(s) such as our head waiter, our maitre d or even one of the elevator boys (yes - that was common on every ship) stood out to us in terms of service, my folks would extend something to them as well. Believe me….every single member of the staff went out of their way to provide exemplary service, hoping to earn a TIP….even the elevator boys!!!!

This nonsense that you HAVE TO provide a DSC for mediocre service is insane. I've personally witnessed the level of personal service decline through the years....as coincidentally the cruise staffs have received automatic "service charges" rather than working to impress their clientele. There have always been cheapskates and folks who refused to tip at all. This new policy of DSCs has not "fixed" that. Folks still remove their DSCs from their accounts and pay less or no cash gratuities to their servers.

My NEWEST CONCERN is this unsubstantiated rumor that such cash tips may be required to be shared. Such a rumor or even such a fact may result in folks discontinuing cash tips for outstanding service.

I'm not looking for an argument, only a source which I can verify to prove or disprove this claim.

I have plenty of cruising experience and even more gray hairs. I have made and maintained many long distance friendships with ships’ staff members….but I’ve NEVER heard ANY RELIABLE SOURCE verify that cash TIPS must be pooled. This seems to be an urban myth spread exclusively through this forum. Naturally, if you give a cash TIP to the staffer whom you consider to be your main cabin steward, he or she may choose to share such a TIP with his/her assistant(s)....but to say it's MANDATORY is a pretty significant claim.

[sdmike]

That is absolutely false. You don't have to spend one dime beyond the DSC.

 

Agreed, except for the gratuity added to drinks

[njhorseman]

Agreed, except for the gratuity added to drinks

 

I rarely drink. :p

[Micchi]

.....but I think my question got lost amongst all the bickering.

Again - Can anyone site a source for the claim that ANY CRUISE STAFFERS are suggested or required to report, split or fork-over any cash "tip" provided to them by any cruise ship passenger?…regardless of whether or not their passenger kept or removed the DSC charges from their shipboard account????

Stating why it might or might not be true and arguing how the staff might or might not get away with keeping it does not make it so.

FURTHER.....

The DSC concept began several years ago as a way to simplify the tipping process FOR THE PASSENGER.....or so we've been made to believe.

Since I was a child, and to this very day - TIPPING on a cruise ship has been purely voluntary. There have always been guidelines published in ships' daily bulletins SUGGESTING a per person, per day TIP IF YOU FEEL YOU'VE RECEIVED SERVICE THAT WARRANTED IT. Of course it was a cash transaction then, given in envelopes. My family always used the then current GUIDELINE to provide a cash tip to our waiter, busboy, and cabin steward(s). If any other particular staff member(s) such as our head waiter, our maitre d or even one of the elevator boys (yes - that was common on every ship) stood out to us in terms of service, my folks would extend something to them as well. Believe me….every single member of the staff went out of their way to provide exemplary service, hoping to earn a TIP….even the elevator boys!!!!

This nonsense that you HAVE TO provide a DSC for mediocre service is insane. I've personally witnessed the level of personal service decline through the years....as coincidentally the cruise staffs have received automatic "service charges" rather than working to impress their clientele. There have always been cheapskates and folks who refused to tip at all. This new policy of DSCs has not "fixed" that. Folks still remove their DSCs from their accounts and pay less or no cash gratuities to their servers.

My NEWEST CONCERN is this unsubstantiated rumor that such cash tips may be required to be shared. Such a rumor or even such a fact may result in folks discontinuing cash tips for outstanding service.

I'm not looking for an argument, only a source which I can verify to prove or disprove this claim.

I have plenty of cruising experience and even more gray hairs. I have made and maintained many long distance friendships with ships’ staff members….but I’ve NEVER heard ANY RELIABLE SOURCE verify that cash TIPS must be pooled. This seems to be an urban myth spread exclusively through this forum. Naturally, if you give a cash TIP to the staffer whom you consider to be your main cabin steward, he or she may choose to share such a TIP with his/her assistant(s)....but to say it's MANDATORY is a pretty significant claim.

 

I don't have a problem with the DSC but I too would like to see a source on this prevalent rumor. All I ever see are things like "don't ask me how I know" or "trust me." No, I don't trust you - you're a stranger on the internet. For all I know your SO/child/relative is a member of the crew and you've got a vested interest in keeping that DSC in place :p

[nezume]

I don't have a problem with the DSC but I too would like to see a source on this prevalent rumor. All I ever see are things like "don't ask me how I know" or "trust me." No, I don't trust you - you're a stranger on the internet. For all I know your SO/child/relative is a member of the crew and you've got a vested interest in keeping that DSC in place :p

 

And for that matter anyone have any proof that room service staff are not included in the DSC pool as well? I've asked before and all I got was flames.

[lambs2]

So you spend all that money on a cruise to go and sit by the service desk to see who has their DSC removed (and listen in on everyone's conversation at the service desk)? :rolleyes:

 

Oh brother!

UNCALLED FOR REMARK! I was in line at the service desk for a totally different matter and overheard the people in front of me and saw the purser or their assistant come speak with them! (I think you better lay off the Jack Daniels...):p

[smeyer418]

.....but I think my question got lost amongst all the bickering.

Again - Can anyone site a source for the claim that ANY CRUISE STAFFERS are suggested or required to report, split or fork-over any cash "tip" provided to them by any cruise ship passenger?…regardless of whether or not their passenger kept or removed the DSC charges from their shipboard account????

Stating why it might or might not be true and arguing how the staff might or might not get away with keeping it does not make it so.

FURTHER.....

The DSC concept began several years ago as a way to simplify the tipping process FOR THE PASSENGER.....or so we've been made to believe.

Since I was a child, and to this very day - TIPPING on a cruise ship has been purely voluntary. There have always been guidelines published in ships' daily bulletins SUGGESTING a per person, per day TIP IF YOU FEEL YOU'VE RECEIVED SERVICE THAT WARRANTED IT. Of course it was a cash transaction then, given in envelopes. My family always used the then current GUIDELINE to provide a cash tip to our waiter, busboy, and cabin steward(s). If any other particular staff member(s) such as our head waiter, our maitre d or even one of the elevator boys (yes - that was common on every ship) stood out to us in terms of service, my folks would extend something to them as well. Believe me….every single member of the staff went out of their way to provide exemplary service, hoping to earn a TIP….even the elevator boys!!!!

This nonsense that you HAVE TO provide a DSC for mediocre service is insane. I've personally witnessed the level of personal service decline through the years....as coincidentally the cruise staffs have received automatic "service charges" rather than working to impress their clientele. There have always been cheapskates and folks who refused to tip at all. This new policy of DSCs has not "fixed" that. Folks still remove their DSCs from their accounts and pay less or no cash gratuities to their servers.

My NEWEST CONCERN is this unsubstantiated rumor that such cash tips may be required to be shared. Such a rumor or even such a fact may result in folks discontinuing cash tips for outstanding service.

I'm not looking for an argument, only a source which I can verify to prove or disprove this claim.

I have plenty of cruising experience and even more gray hairs. I have made and maintained many long distance friendships with ships’ staff members….but I’ve NEVER heard ANY RELIABLE SOURCE verify that cash TIPS must be pooled. This seems to be an urban myth spread exclusively through this forum. Naturally, if you give a cash TIP to the staffer whom you consider to be your main cabin steward, he or she may choose to share such a TIP with his/her assistant(s)....but to say it's MANDATORY is a pretty significant claim.

 

as I said I hate tipping threads mostly because there is so much misinformation(in some cases deliberately so by people who have an ax to grind or a particular view of the world).

Cash tips have always been shared by the staff-whether they told you or not and NCL(but not NCL America flagged ship-its against Hawaiian law to do so) requires that if the DSC is removed that the room steward and others(not bar tenders and not the room service staff) turn in all the cash tips.

My info comes from the former president of this cruise line, numerous Hotel directors, and directly from staff as well.

The service people on most of the tipping cruise lines are paid a base salary of something around $100 per MONTH plus on board room and board and some on board medical care) here is a thread from someone who works/ed in the dinning room that talks about this.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1107696

 

They do take home more because they get a draw against the tips and the tips themselves.

 

This method of paying the traditional tipped crew goes back to at least the early 1900's and was continue by Samuel Cunard who was born in Canada and immigrated to England.

 

In fact in the 1910-30 there was a movement in the US to do away with tipping-which obviously failed.

 

Because of the fare structure now the remuneration for the traditionally tipped crew is NOT included in the fare. Generally those cruise lines that do include it charge more than the difference between the cost of tipping non tipping(Azamara announced a 25% increase and included the "basic" tipping and some other items-none of which when added together could justify a 25% increase-but I don't know if the full increase has held this is an example I realize that NCL is not Azamara or Seaborn or other of the luxury lines where in general you pay a premium to get the base tip included-do you really think that people no longer tip on these lines).

 

Whether its in the fare or the expected tip, its you are paying it anyway. I really don't see why you may want to pay more to have it included in the fare.

 

On most cruise lines when you remove the auto -tip all or most of the cash tip is put back into the pool anyway so in fact you make it more difficult for those who you want to reward. The best way to reward these people is to either write a note to their supervisors explaining how they went over and above or giving them a little extra(at your discretion of course).

The auto tip takes care of what the employees were required to do anyway(called tipping out). The rooms stewards traditionally tipped out the laundry room supply room staff and asst head housekeeper(the name for this varies among cruise lines); and the waiters tipped out the bus boys, dishwashers, line cooks and asst head waiter/maitre d(also varies by cruise line).

Do the employees just pocket the cash? mostly no. If the auto-tip is removed and they don't turn it in(BTW I have been told by some staff they sometimes convert extra tips left by some which they don't have to turn in at all to pay for the cheapos/stiffers because they ARE marked down when people keep taking the auto-tip off and leave nothing or less than the suggested amount-rightfully or wrongfully its held against them). The employees live in close quarters 3-4 in a room and they don't want large amounts of cash lying around either. The employees know pretty quickly who are the slackers and pocketers and since the supervisor is one of the people being stiffed by the employees they get a. fired b. non renewed or c the worst assignments....and also have been known to be visited by their own countries of origin mafia on board.

Ships are clearly a different culture with somewhat different rules. The tipping culture is a tradition on board. I know some people dis like being told when in Rome....but you aren't in Kansas either.

If you don't like the auto-tip you are of course free to chose another cruise line that includes it but if you like NCL's product and the service you really SHOULD follow the tradition.

 

There is also not one iota of evidence that the entire auto tip doesn't make it to the traditionally tipped and tipped out crew. The cruise lines even absorb the credit card charge. Cruise employees sue cruise lines all the time and there is NOT one report of any crew member that the entire amount doesn't eventually get to them and not one reported lawsuit...yet(I monitor a number of cruise lawyers reports who would report any such lawsuit).

 

 

and of course this doesn't mean that you shouldn't remove the auto-tip when the service is mediocre. But most of the time what people complain about has little with the service anyway(the steak was too tough or the portions were small has nothing to do with the server).

 

 

and BTW the reason that NCL made it mandatory was that 40% of the people who removed the auto-tip left less than the suggested amount even when they had no service related complaint(this came directly from the then President of NCL). I realize that there has been a relatively recent change in the language on the NCL website but I am told that this reflects the fact that they combined the info for the NCL America ship with the rest of the fleet. and finally I am also told that most of the time you can change the amount at the desk because so few actually do so. But the ship will in fact be questioned when it reports large numbers of removals.....

[Globaliser]

Scenario 1:

 

I'm a waiter in a restaurant.

 

You walk in, you immediately pay for your dinner and give me a nice tip.

 

I already having your money, chat with my friends while you need service, check on you once maybe get you a refill.

 

End result, if you want any of that tip back you need to go argue with my manager in public.

 

Scenario 2:

 

I'm a waiter in a restaurant.

 

You walk in, your order a nice dinner. I want to make money, so I give you my best service. I'm on top of your refills, I am constantly checking in, offering my services, I arrive with your food, drinks and check in a timely manner.

 

End Result, I get a good tip, I worked for it.

Remember the one key fact:

 

When you make the tipping mandatory the service suffers.

That is simply not true.

 

There are plenty of restaurants where tipping is neither needed nor expected, either because a service charge is included and automatically payable by all customers, or because the whole service element is rolled up into the posted price so that there is no need to pay either a service charge or to tip.

 

These restaurants include some of the best in the world, in which service is second to none. And general service levels in the countries in which these practices are the norm are as good as in countries with deeply-ingrained tipping cultures.

 

So the consequence simply does not follow from the premise.

[Globaliser]

Not to say that I agree or disagree with waiving the service charge but there's a flaw in your theory. While crew members share rooms with each other and can have fairly easy access to each others belongings at any given time, I doubt there's any easy way for them to access each other's personal financial records.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the type of people concerned, their level of sophistication, and the general environment in crew quarters.

 

Obviously, it isn't impossible that someone could try to do this. But the chances of them getting away with it for any significant period of time are pretty small - and small enough that those who routinely think "I'll just remove the service charge and tip in cash, because the crew member WILL be able to keep the money" are deluding themselves and just living in la-la land.

[erdoran]

Roveer I absolutely agree with you that it is NCL's obligation to clearly show the DSC info at the time of booking, the same way the rest of the charges are shown. I got gang-flamed a few months ago for getting on my soapbox about this. To some people NCL can do no wrong!! Sure, the info is disclosed on the website but I agree that anything to do with what your non-optional final bill will be should be clearly disclosed up front before booking. Lots of CC folks say "if you can't afford or don't want to pay the DSC, then don't cruise!". Well, fine--if you know about it in the first place before incurring financial liability.

 

There is no way you should have to go on a hunt for what you are going to have to pay. Period.

[ColinIllinois]

I wish I had $12 for every consecutive week that this topic comes up. I'd be staying in the penthouse suites. :D

[njhorseman]

Anyone who doubts that crew has to "tip out" (meaning the tip is shared with crew members who may not provide service directly to passengers) even on cruise lines with traditional tipping should read this, taken from Royal Caribbean's FAQ on gratuity guidelines:

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do;jsessionid=0000VAJHtd0RkaFB3v-3KA0-DIv:13hldcgo7?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&pnav=5&pnav=2&faqSubjectName=Life+Onboard&faqId=263&faqSubjectId=334&faqType=faq

 

Notice to Guests: Gratuities may be shared with other crew members depending on the particular service requirement.

[luddite]

You are still expected to tip on top of the DSC. Keep that wallet open and bring your envelopes too. I fully expected the tipping part. I usually come to CC and figure out what everyone else does and do the same. It was the DSC part not being listed anywhere near the fare or being told by my TA that caught me off guard. This is of course if you were referring to me. Otherwise, never mind. :eek:

 

No, you are not.