HAL strategy wrong? Go upmarket, better than going down market?

[iancal]

They do have to decide.

 

But the reality is that the person paying $545. for a 7 day inside on that Statendam Alaska cruise will be getting exactly the same MDR, Lido, etc. experience as the person who paid much more. The only real difference is the cabin size and perhaps some of the freebees that are thrown in.

 

How to differenciate these two experiences is one of the major challenges of the mass market cruise industry. That, and how to get customers to increase their on board spending!

Edited May 2, 2013 by iancal

[swedish weave]

They do have to decide.

 

But the reality is that the person paying $545. for a 7 day inside on that Statendam Alaska cruise will be getting exactly the same MDR, Lido, etc. experience as the person who paid much more. The only real difference is the cabin size and perhaps some of the freebees that are thrown in.

 

How to differenciate these two experiences is one of the major challenges of the mass market cruise industry. That, and how to get customers to increase their on board spending!

 

I will add that the cruise lines have done quite a job convincing some cruisers that a balcony is worth an extra hundred dollars per day (or more)

 

Some lines provide quality at a price, and some sell the "perception" of quality at a price. It is up to the individual to decide which they want to purchase.

[sail7seas]

I will add that the cruise lines have done quite a job convincing some cruisers that a balcony is worth an extra hundred dollars per day (or more)

 

Some lines provide quality at a price, and some sell the "perception" of quality at a price. It is up to the individual to decide which they want to purchase.

 

 

Some of us didn't need convicing the extra cost was worth it for the balcony. We made that choice without any influence from the cruise line..... speaking only for myself, of course. :)

 

[iancal]

We also very much prefer a balcony. An outside will do in a pinch.

 

But we would never pay an extra $100. for a balcony. Our preferrred strike price for a balcony is $100. pp per day on HAL, Celebrity, or Princess. Our Med and Carib. cruises have all come in at this number. TA was considerably less.

 

Prices seem to be higher this year-at least for Med. cruises by about 20/30 percent.

[CowPrincess]

In my experience in business......the more senior the executive is or the more wealthy/successful the entrepreneur is/was, the more likely the he/she would be more comfortable in casual clothes and more likely to show up up for an event in a sports jacket and dressy jeans. Ditto for his or her partner.

 

My observation is that the people who are not there on the ladder are the ones that are absolutely terrified of not fitting in. They wear the suits to these informal business events. Just my observation in working with very senior people for many years

 

I suspect that this is why many of the truly high end cruises are casual. These people are at the top of their game, they no longer have to pretend or try to impress.

 

It was always a mistake to judge these 'books' by the cover.

 

So, based on this post, you judge people by how they are dressed.

[iancal]

Of course not. It is simply an observation and certainly not a judgement. I am not certain how you could judge anyone by their station in life, their occupation/position, or their attire.

 

But if this is the conclusion that you wish to draw, be my guest. I cannot change you conclusion, nor would I even be bothered to do so.

 

After all, it is also you opinion and opinions cannot be incorrect.

Edited May 2, 2013 by iancal

[geocruiser]

I don't know if I am posting this on the right thread. But I did not want to start another one. What I would love to see is HAL fill a new place in the pecking order of cruise lines. We have enough main stream cruise lines. I would like to see HAL place in-between mass market (RCCL, Princess etc.) and Azamara, Oceania. Of course there would be a price increase, but not to level of Azamara and O. I really enjoyed my two cruises on Azamara, because of the ship size. Food to me was so-so. But I think HAL could fit in-between as an up market light. It would not take too much extras to do this. Some extra crew/staff on board to make service better. Included soft drink (cans) and bottled water & maybe wine with dinner. Tips could be included too. Azamara has left that market behind and the space is empty. Azamara has upset lot of their PAX with too much change--Just red their board.

Jut my two cents. What do you think?

[Wakepatrol]

Yep. Things change. Here is a photo of a baseball crowd from the 30s. Lots of suits and ties - for baseball. Try to find a baseball fan with a suit on now.

 

Just saying, things change.

 

Been watching the Kentucky Derby this afternoon. The women look gorgeous in their hats and dresses. I guess the croc and track suit brigade haven't been able to penetrate this event. Perhaps the camera man has just missed them?:rolleyes:

[cruisin'girl]

I don't know if I am posting this on the right thread. But I did not want to start another one. What I would love to see is HAL fill a new place in the pecking order of cruise lines. We have enough main stream cruise lines. I would like to see HAL place in-between mass market (RCCL, Princess etc.) and Azamara, Oceania. Of course there would be a price increase, but not to level of Azamara and O. I really enjoyed my two cruises on Azamara, because of the ship size. Food to me was so-so. But I think HAL could fit in-between as an up market light. It would not take too much extras to do this. Some extra crew/staff on board to make service better. Included soft drink (cans) and bottled water & maybe wine with dinner. Tips could be included too. Azamara has left that market behind and the space is empty. Azamara has upset lot of their PAX with too much change--Just red their board.

Jut my two cents. What do you think?

Interesting idea and wish HAL had gone in this direction when they basically moved from what they called premium down to mass market. They let Oceania scoot right in the niche HAL could have had. There may not be room to thread the needle that finely between mass and upmarket (A and O) and luxury and have 'upmarket light'.

[mariner]

A bespoke jacket, shirt and suit costs more. But sometimes not as much as certain designer off the rack clothes. Yet the difference in wear is very noticeable.

[sail7seas]

 

Interesting idea and wish HAL had gone in this direction when they basically moved from what they called premium down to mass market. They let Oceania scoot right in the niche HAL could have had. There may not be room to thread the needle that finely between mass and upmarket (A and O) and luxury and have 'upmarket light'.

 

 

 

HAL has 15 ships.

How many does Oceania have?

I'm not sure there is any sort of comparison here.

HAL 'let' them scoot. Maybe HAL was just fine with that?

 

[mariner]

I keep seeing HAL regulars here mention Oceania. That's troubling. What does Oceania offer that HAL doesn't? I went to Seabourn. No one on Seabourn ever mentions Oceania.

[swedish weave]

Interesting idea and wish HAL had gone in this direction when they basically moved from what they called premium down to mass market. They let Oceania scoot right in the niche HAL could have had. There may not be room to thread the needle that finely between mass and upmarket (A and O) and luxury and have 'upmarket light'.

 

History would indicate that HAL possibly made a good decision to not try the upscale market. Many of the lines that tried to remain in that market either failed or were taken over by the mass market lines.

 

The number of people who are hanging on to the traditions of the past are declining, and the majority who cruise today want a more laid back experience at a low price.

[iancal]

HAL's current fleet does not lend itself to going one way or the other in terms of mass market or premium. They seem to be trying to do both-an extremely mixed marketing message. They have some small ships and some larger ships.

 

Part of that fleet is getting long in the tooth, It is probably well past it's sell by date in terms of refurbishment. Those older ships are most likely more expensive to operate and maintain than newer ships. This no doubt compounds the problem.

 

HAL may also have a challenge with demographics and customer loyalty as time progresses. IMHO, their mixed messages/direction does little to solve this challenge at the moment.

[cruisingourmet]

As we approach 2014 how does HAL stack up with Celebrity, as BOTH EXIST NOW ?

 

I have been fairly happy with X, at least on the last 3 TA cruises, everyone dressed nicely for the 3 formal nights.

 

if I had my way every night would be formal, so I prefer the tuxedo & gown ambiance.

 

 

The food was quite good I'd say 3.8 out of 5 stars

 

Bottom line, having never cruised on HAL would I feel dissappointed.

 

If so what areas would I notice a difference primarily?

[OlsSalt]

HAL would be best to go for travelers; not tourists.

[kazu]

As we approach 2014 how does HAL stack up with Celebrity, as BOTH EXIST NOW ?

 

I have been fairly happy with X, at least on the last 3 TA cruises, everyone dressed nicely for the 3 formal nights.

 

if I had my way every night would be formal, so I prefer the tuxedo & gown ambiance.

 

 

The food was quite good I'd say 3.8 out of 5 stars

 

Bottom line, having never cruised on HAL would I feel dissappointed.

 

If so what areas would I notice a difference primarily?

 

I have been on Celebrity and on HAL - I prefer HAL.

 

Food is so subjective and can depend upon the day of the week or the week, but I found the food better on HAL.

 

I like the ambience on HAL better. The crew is friendlier, more welcoming and just make you feel that they are glad that you are there.

 

Entertainment is better on Celebrity depending upon the HAL ship you are on. And that can vary be week to week. If you want a "Las Vegas" type show , you won't see it on HAL but again, they can be good on some ships. The others, not so great.

 

The Lido is much better on HAL - including breakfast.

 

More flowers, real hand towels in the public washrooms, fresh squeezed oj at N/C - the list goes on.

 

Give HAL a try. You might be very surprised.

[cruisetrail]

As we approach 2014 how does HAL stack up with Celebrity, as BOTH EXIST NOW ?

 

..Bottom line, having never cruised on HAL would I feel dissappointed.

 

If so what areas would I notice a difference primarily?

 

The major difference: ships design and amenities.

[kazu]

The major difference: ships design and amenities.

 

There is MUCH more to a ship than it's design. There's food, ambience, crew, entertainment and just so much more.

 

Design is not the be all to end all. My LEAST favourite ship is the Nieuw Amsterdam which I know you extoll. It boiled down to the service and ambience on that cruise. I'd far rather hop on the Prinsendam, Maasdam or Westerdam than the N.A.

 

Many love this ship and that's fine - we probably had a bad 20 days - but my point is there is MUCH more to a ship than simple design.

 

I love the Tamarind but that won't make me sail on a ship when there are others I prefer :D

[Gerko]

I haven't really seen any signs of HAL down-marketing themselves, although I think they should have stuck with Volendam sized vessels instead of moving to the ubiquitous Vista class ships. Rather than being a different class (Luxury, Premium, etc) to other lines I think its difference is the type of client it is preferred by. It doesn't have blaringly loud sailaway parties. It doesn't have belly flop contests at the pool. It doesn't have circus acts, water slides or climbing walls. Its passengers are more likely to be found in the lounge listening to classical music than in the disco listening to rap. They like to dress up for formal nights. The Piano Bar prefers Perry Como to Justin Beiber. Its for those who prefer slower, older, quieter. Thats where their market has always been and thats where it should stay.

[innlady1]

There is MUCH more to a ship than it's design. There's food, ambience, crew, entertainment and just so much more.

 

Design is not the be all to end all. My LEAST favourite ship is the Nieuw Amsterdam which I know you extoll. It boiled down to the service and ambience on that cruise. I'd far rather hop on the Prinsendam, Maasdam or Westerdam than the N.A.

 

Many love this ship and that's fine - we probably had a bad 20 days - but my point is there is MUCH more to a ship than simple design.

 

I love the Tamarind but that won't make me sail on a ship when there are others I prefer :D

 

We've enjoyed all our HAL cruises: Maasdam, Veendam, Ryndam, Noordam, and Nieuw Amsterdam...have not noticed a difference in ambience or crew on any of them...just the size of the ship.

[iancal]

I have no idea where HAL is going, and I do not think that they really do. Their current marketing seems to be at variance with the reality. Perhaps a shake up on mahogany row is needed to get some fresh ideas and perspectives.

 

One thing is for certain. Like any business, HAL needs to go where the puck is going, not where it is now, or where it has been for the past several years.

 

There is lots of competition in the marketplace. IMHO, HAL needs to do a much better job of differentiating their product.

 

And they could smarten up on ship appearance and general maintenance as a starting point.

[cruisetrail]

There is MUCH more to a ship than it's design. There's food, ambience, crew, entertainment and just so much more.

 

 

Ship's design is a complex thing that defines the product (including ambience, entertainment... and all other things that need to be based on something).

 

What is built is what you have.

[kazu]

We've enjoyed all our HAL cruises: Maasdam, Veendam, Ryndam, Noordam, and Nieuw Amsterdam...have not noticed a difference in ambience or crew on any of them...just the size of the ship.

 

I'm glad you were happy on her Sheila.

 

We've only been on the Volendam, old N.A., N.A. (new one) , Zuiderdam, Rotterdam (old one), Rotterdam (new one), Maasdam, Oosterdam, Noordam , Westerdam and Prinsendam

 

Our experience may have been a fluke - but when it's a 20 day cruise - not a 7 day - it's a long time if things are not going well or as expected. HAL has lots of other ships out there and we will happily sail any of them before we go back on the N.A. ;) It was just our experience and I can assure you a lot of people on our roll call (90+) weren't happy so it wasn't just us.

 

That being said, it was still better than our last Celebrity and Princess cruise:)

 

After the N.A., we went from one extreme to the other - their oldest ship - the Prinsendam - love it - not for everyone - but we have our third cruise booked on her :)

[cruisingourmet]

I think that HAL has a great product.

 

But, if they really want to go 'upmarket' then among other things they need to hire back the staff that they laid off or cut back on, fix some of the the inherent engineering issues with their older ships, stop the nonsense of bring ships out of drydock permaturely, and start increasing the spend on provisions to get the food back to the same standard and quality that it was a few years ago.

 

Have they reversed this "trend" or as my OP wants to know are they keeping up standards or stabilizing the perceived decline?