No Cristmas Church Services on Glory

[stevenr597]

Several years ago we were on the Imagination during Chanukah. Carnival served wine and had a Menorah. However they did not supply a member of the clergy (Rabbi). The services, were conducted by the Jewish passengers (and members of the crew) and were open to everbody. A good number of Christian's did attend.

 

It is my understanding that if one wishes to, Carnival will provide a suitable area to have religious services. Carnival does not wish to get into the position, where they appear to endorse any one faith or belief.

 

A number of messages I have read shows why Carnival does not want to have "official" services for any religion. This is a product of the unfortuante times we live in.

 

My advice is that if one wishes to celebrate Christmas, by all means do so. I am sure that Carnival will provide a suitable place to have services.

 

I hope that everyone has a safe, and very enjoyable Chistmas.

[Boatnutz]

I kinda think that being in the middle of paradise with your family or friends is a religious experience in itself....call me a heathen!

[notme1955]

They can't have an "official" religious Christmas service if there is no one available to officiate.

[dclark]

On the xmas sailing of the CCL Freedom, all the xmas trees were left unplugged, crew member were told not to wear santa hats and there was no xmas musi played at all. It was weird hearing Tina Turner singing "What's Love gotta do?" on the background music in the lido deck instead of holiday music.

The front desk told me that they have people from around the world and they don't want to offend anyone.

However, each day, there was a large gathering around the Menorah for the lighting.

I think it was pretty obvious who they were trying not to offend.

My daughter said it was like we missed xmas.

[riffatsea]

They can't have an "official" religious Christmas service if there is no one available to officiate.

I suppose that is one of the biggest differences between the Jewish religion and some others.

We don't need "official" clergy to lead services.

I suppose that is why it is easy to have small celebrations at sea. Carnival would have to either hire other clergy or have passengers who are ordained offer to help out. I guess it is not so easy to find folks who want to do that.

I would expect that if going to your church is very important,then you would not choose to cruise on a very religious holiday.

[PaulieG13]

You don't need official clergy to have a Christian service either. Any division or sect of Christianity that claims that an ordained minister is required for a church service is simply basing that off of individual church doctrine, not the Bible.

 

"Anyone who knows the word can profess and teach it."

 

Celebrate the day however you see fit regardless of how many others participate. If you get a group to join you, cool. If it's just your family, so be it.

 

Just curious, what other services are being held onboard? Chanukah will be over by then and there are no other holidays during that cruise, I don't think.

[Redsfan]

On the xmas sailing of the CCL Freedom, all the xmas trees were left unplugged, crew member were told not to wear santa hats and there was no xmas musi played at all. It was weird hearing Tina Turner singing "What's Love gotta do?" on the background music in the lido deck instead of holiday music.

The front desk told me that they have people from around the world and they don't want to offend anyone.

However, each day, there was a large gathering around the Menorah for the lighting.

I think it was pretty obvious who they were trying not to offend.

My daughter said it was like we missed xmas.

 

there is no Hanukkah music played during the lighting of the Menorah...the lighting and small blessing ceremony lasts 5 minutes and it is done. There was also no Hanukkah music on the Lido Deck. Nor were there staff wearing skull caps and asked to remove them....not sure of your point here

[nchikk]

Is it Carnival's place to offer a Christmas service? If so, would it not be their place to offer an Hanukkah service? Kwanzaa services? As one who replied previously mentioned, they are not celebrating Christmas, just decorating for the holiday.

[Luke gs Daddy]

, just decorating for the holiday.

 

 

What Holiday?

[donaldsc]

I do not see where having a religious service on a ship harms anyone since nobody is required to attend.

 

I do totally object to a cruise company paying or providing reduced or free passage to a member of the clergy (of any religious persuasion including mine) as I do not want my cruise money to support religious faiths that I donot believe in.

 

DON

[Sirwinston]

Without walking into a minefield, Other Carnival owned cruise lines have more religious services. I have gone to Non denominational Sunday Service on Holland America and my favorite was the non denominational service on QM2 conducted by the captain. I am sort of agnostic but went to the one on QM2 because friends of mine were going. It was inspirational and pleasant without being preachy and is a Cunard tradition. Perhaps a more traditional cruise line would have what the O.P. was looking for. That said the winter solstice was originally a pagan holiday.

 

Peace and goodwill to all...

 

Tom in Long Beach

[okgirl]

On my 1st 2 cruises on the Festivale in June of 1983 and 1984 we sailed from Miami and had a non-denominational service on Sunday. I don't remember much about the fleet back then and don't know when it became commonplace for them to start sailing on Sunday.

[tulsacubfan]

Man, am I tired of hearing the politically correct, mumbo-jumbo excuse. Everyone knows Dec 25th is Christmas. Does anyone force Jewish people to call Hanukkah, "December Holiday" or that Muslims should call Ramadan "April Break?" to reflect my diversity? It doesn't offend me that they celebrate in a way that they like. If I went on a cruise and there were "Happy Hanukkah" signs posted, I would look and say, "that's nice". Why should I be offended?

 

Its Christmas, I wish people would bloody well call it that.

 

Very well said. Christians wanting to say Christmas and outwardly show signs and symbols of the Christian part of Christmas are being stifled. Yet, every other religion should be "tolerated" to show acceptance.

 

We don't say "the" holidays for 4th of July, New Year's day, Memorial Day, etc. Let's call it what it is .... Christmas!

 

Of course, if the politically correct people would really study Christianity, they would realize while Christmas is an important holy day for Christians, they would also realize it is not "the" holy day.... fortunately they haven't yet forced us to say happy holiday at Easter!

 

Merry Christmas!

[tulsacubfan]

Several years ago we were on the Imagination during Chanukah. Carnival served wine and had a Menorah. However they did not supply a member of the clergy (Rabbi). The services, were conducted by the Jewish passengers (and members of the crew) and were open to everbody. A good number of Christian's did attend.

 

 

My advice is that if one wishes to celebrate Christmas, by all means do so. I am sure that Carnival will provide a suitable place to have services.

 

.

 

I think it is wonderful they provide a suitable place and they provided the Jewish passengers with the wine and a Menorah. The Jewish passengers were able to conduct a service. Most Christian faiths can perform some sort of worship service without a minister. However, a Catholic Mass cannot be performed without a priest.

 

I do understand, however, that most priests are at their own parish or if they are retired, are helping out at parishes that only have one priest but have 5 masses for Christmas (like ours). And this year makes it more difficult being on Saturday - we have 4 masses on Christmas eve (Friday), one on Christmas (Saturday) and 4 on Sunday. With only one priest. I bet he might like to be on a cruise ship instead :)

[tulsacubfan]

On the xmas sailing of the CCL Freedom, all the xmas trees were left unplugged, crew member were told not to wear santa hats and there was no xmas musi played at all. It was weird hearing Tina Turner singing "What's Love gotta do?" on the background music in the lido deck instead of holiday music.

The front desk told me that they have people from around the world and they don't want to offend anyone.

However, each day, there was a large gathering around the Menorah for the lighting.

I think it was pretty obvious who they were trying not to offend.

My daughter said it was like we missed xmas.

 

This is the political correctness I am really tired of. Nobody wants to "offend" anybody with Christianity.....how about the fact the Christians are offended by not being able to celebrate Christmas (and sorry - it is Christmas, not xmas - Christ is not an x). Yet every other religion is celebrated ...

[tulsacubfan]

You don't need official clergy to have a Christian service either. Any division or sect of Christianity that claims that an ordained minister is required for a church service is simply basing that off of individual church doctrine, not the Bible.

 

"Anyone who knows the word can profess and teach it."

 

Celebrate the day however you see fit regardless of how many others participate. If you get a group to join you, cool. If it's just your family, so be it.

 

Just curious, what other services are being held onboard? Chanukah will be over by then and there are no other holidays during that cruise, I don't think.

 

An official Catholic Mass (with the eucharist) cannot be performed without a priest as only a priest can concecrate the bread and wine. If you are in a church where there are concecrated hosts, you could have a communion service without a priest. But concecrated hosts cannot be taken to the ship and kept in somebody's cabin for days until the service. So, technically they do need a priest.

[riffatsea]

Just wondering? I would be really surprised if the menorah was supplied by Carnival. It would seem more likely that some passenger brought one on board.

Also the lighting ceremony is very short so it wouldn't take place all day long and was in only one spot on the ship and not throughout the ship so as not to bother those who do not celebrate that holiday.

I am not sure if this took place on Christmas Day?

 

I would think that having a Christmas tree up on Christmas eve or Christmas day wouldn't bother anyone. The trouble seems to be that no one was around to hold an actual service.

 

I would hope you'd see the difference between a ceremony that takes a very short amount of time, and constant Christmas music with the Christmas tree decorated for a whole week.

I don't think anyone wants to stop others from celebrating Christmas. The trouble is that on a ship everyone is captive in that space and if the entire ship is in Christmas mode then those who don't celebrate are made to feel uncomfortable.

I wouldn't sail at that time anyway because of all the kiddos on board but I do understand the situation.

 

 

[ItsAllAboutTheSass]

What Holiday?

 

The commercial one. I may be a lapsed Catholic, but I don't remember decorated pine trees, blinking lights, old guys in red suits and reindeer in the Bible.

[BallFour4]

An official Catholic Mass (with the eucharist) cannot be performed without a priest as only a priest can concecrate the bread and wine. If you are in a church where there are concecrated hosts, you could have a communion service without a priest. But concecrated hosts cannot be taken to the ship and kept in somebody's cabin for days until the service. So, technically they do need a priest.

 

Absolutely true, and it's happened at our church. Priest was ill for the 11am mass.

 

Now, to the OP post: a cruise line, Disney, Universal Studios, etc. has no obligation to provide something for those that cruise. I really chuckle when I read things like this and the proverbial "they should have a dentist on board..."

 

We take vacations on floating mini-cities, and not everything can be there for us.

 

Celebrate the birth of Christ in your own way. Trust me, the reverence of a tree near the bingo cards, or lights next to a shore excursion desk are not something that will etch a long term memory of beauty in our faith life...

 

.

 

[BallFour4]

The commercial one. I may be a lapsed Catholic, but I don't remember decorated pine trees, blinking lights, old guys in red suits and reindeer in the Bible.

 

We will take you back...

 

no red suits, but we have Bibles with red words.

[PaulieG13]

The commercial one. I may be a lapsed Catholic, but I don't remember decorated pine trees, blinking lights, old guys in red suits and reindeer in the Bible.

 

 

Don't forget the "chicken egg" providing bunny at Easter! What a confused world.

[pe4all]

We have been fortunate to have been on several "Christmas" cruises - some when Hanukah fell during the cruise also. Yes, there were menorah lightings - once by the head of club 02 (she was an Israeli) and I really don't know who "ran" the other ones. I do know that there were latkes, fruit, challah, wine and some songs sang - no service that I recall. The first night we stumbled upon it there were about 10 people there. By the last night, there were over 100 people, all chomping and having a great time. Some were saying that it was the first piece of challah/potato pancakes they had ever had! It was really nice seeing everyone of all faiths enjoying themselves and learning a bit about a different religion. We cruise during the holidays to be around our family. Attending a service would really be low on our to-do list - but to each their own. I guess if there were a clergy member sailing during that time, maybe they would run a service for you. Did you check your roll call?

[dclark]

there is no Hanukkah music played during the lighting of the Menorah...the lighting and small blessing ceremony lasts 5 minutes and it is done. There was also no Hanukkah music on the Lido Deck. Nor were there staff wearing skull caps and asked to remove them....not sure of your point here

 

There were some songs sang during that time. I know; I have lyric sheets for the Chanukah Song" and maybe four others- they were passing them out. Too bad they didn't do the same for Christmas carols, but again, Christmas was banned on that cruise. The gathering for the menorah lasted about 30 minutes as people milled about, drank small glasses of manishevitz and ate chala (sp?) bread. The lighting was led by the assistant cruise director who was jewish and wore a yamulke.

While I have no objection to that, I do find it wrong to ban anything that infers Christmas, like employees wearing santa hats or "Holiday" music which is often non religious (like "Frosty the Snowman").

I also found interesting that CCL stopped doing the baked alaska parade years ago, claiming that open fires car a fire hazard, and despite their banning the bring of candles, a family of cruisers was aloud to keep a lit menorah (had burning candles) on their table in the mdr (and the ocean was so rocky that they had barf bags propped everywhere!).

Tolerance is a two way street.

I have been on CCL cruises during Christmas before and it was as if they tried to sanitize anything inferring that date.

I am looking at the Carnival Caper for the 2008 Freedom sailing, 12/24/08, and there is not nary a mention of Christmas Eve in it. But, at 5:30pm (in bold face no less) "Menorah Lighting Ceremony- Deck 3 Lobby".This cruise was also noteworthy as it was the first CCL cruise I have been on to not have any "holiday" movies. I guess some people might be offended by stuff like "It's a Wonderful Life", so if you wanted to watch a movie on the deck under the stars, you'd get something like "I am Legend". Yes, nothing can put you into the holiday spirit like watching vicious zombies trying to kill Will Smith!

[conchead]

You don't need official clergy to have a Christian service either. Any division or sect of Christianity that claims that an ordained minister is required for a church service is simply basing that off of individual church doctrine, not the Bible.

 

"Anyone who knows the word can profess and teach it."

 

Celebrate the day however you see fit regardless of how many others participate. If you get a group to join you, cool. If it's just your family, so be it.

 

Just curious, what other services are being held onboard? Chanukah will be over by then and there are no other holidays during that cruise, I don't think.

Like was said..when two or more are gathered together in His name..

 

I suppose that is one of the biggest differences between the Jewish religion and some others.

We don't need "official" clergy to lead services.

I suppose that is why it is easy to have small celebrations at sea. Carnival would have to either hire other clergy or have passengers who are ordained offer to help out. I guess it is not so easy to find folks who want to do that.

I would expect that if going to your church is very important,then you would not choose to cruise on a very religious holiday.

Christians don't, but it looks like from what some are saying, Catholics do.

 

The commercial one. I may be a lapsed Catholic, but I don't remember decorated pine trees, blinking lights, old guys in red suits and reindeer in the Bible.

 

I don't remember seeing Dec 25 in the Bible either.

It is just a day that some people use to celebrate the birth of Jesus.

There is no Bible reference to any date, or for any special observance of His birth.

[boaterette]

I would not expect to find a church servie at Disneyland on Christmas nor would I expect one on a cruise ship. It is a vacation destination. If a religous ceremony is importatnt to you on Christmas, I don't understand why you would be going on vacation during that time. I go on cruises at Christmas wanting Santa and snowmen not a manger.