Can we please put the "Caribbean" back in Royal Caribbean

[jewopaho]

I don't see where that is much different from anything that I said. Obviously it is about numbers. RCI is going to do what they have to in order to fill up those two megaships. And if that means pulling everything else out in order to make sure that there are no other options for crusing out of Miami and Ft. Lauderdale that is exactly what they will, and are, doing.

 

Unfortunately, it is not like pulling one ship of the same class out in order to fill the other ship. Oasis and Allure do not offer the same experience as ships of other classes or different length itineraries. That is one aspect of RCI that I think is really cool. Their various classes of ships really do offer very different cruise experiences. That allows them to appeal to people with vastly different interests. However, in this situation, anyone wanting to sail RCI out of southern Florida is being forced into the Oasis/Allure 7 night experience. There are no more 8 nighter, no more 6 nighters, no option for class of ship. It is 7 nights on Oasis or Allure. Take it or leave it.

 

Oh, and as far as your comment on the Caribbean heat during summer.... I have been know to retreat to Serenade's air conditioned solarium to escape the heat in February! :D

I guess we are saying pretty much the same thing ... one of us is taking the freeway, the other, the scenic route. It is indeed all about numbers. As for the air-conditioned solarium ... ya gotta leave it sometime. We live in Houston, Amrica's most air-conditioned city, where July and August temperatures approach (and occasionally exceed) 100. If we're headed anywhere during summer months, it's north of here.

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

 

I remember in the 1980's when there were two itineraries in the Caribbean -- East and West

 

Miami, Nassau, San Juan, St. Thomas, Grand Cayman, Ocho Rios, Cozumel, period. Nobody even heard of St. Maarten back then.

 

Look at all the ports we go to (East / West / South) now. And from the tone of this thread, we've gotten bored with them.

 

All we do in those ports is go to a beach and go shopping at what now have become the same stores throughout all the islands.

 

Personally, that makes destination cruising in Europe, South America and other locations more attractive to me, but I also understand that families in the U.S. want to stay closer to home for many reasons.

 

Friends, there really aren't many more ports that have the ability to take on the massive cruise ships of today, although inevitably in just a few years, the U.S. cruise lines will probably start going to Cuba -- and that would indeed be an exciting change.

 

Some of the European cruise lines already go there.

 

Where else would some of you like to go?

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[yj_eugene]

So perhaps that is the corporate strategy at RCI. To use Celebrity for the "tiny islands", and RCL for the main-stream market. Makes sense because 75% of the folks on our Allure cruise were first-timers.

 

I think it's very much like that: once you've done it all on RCL's Caribbean routes, they want you to "graduate" to X and free up room for more new RCL cruisers, and what better way to entice you than to have itineraries on X that you can't get on RCL. We've seen the same thing happen with their Panama Canal cruises: one last one for RCL in April, but a dozen available on X.

[tntornadox]

It could be argued that X's clientele demands different itens, though, couldn't it?

 

Save for Solstice class doing back and forth E/W 7 Nighters, their itens are usually pretty varied.

[ehfl]

There are only so many cruise ships in the world. If you can be flexible, there are lots of cruise lines sailing to lots of ports in the Caribbean. If you are locked in to one cruise line, then obviously, your choices are going to be more limited....but that's really because of your decision.

[Gilgo Surfer]

If they "always brought more money than the standard 7 nighters" you can be sure that they would still be doing them with those ships that are currently doing 7 nighters. RCI and all lines are in the business of maximizing their revenues and they take into consideration all factors, including the demand for cruises of varying lengths and the demand for particular itineraries. They are sailing when and where they are, for one primary reason: popular demand. 7 night cruises are popular with both passengers and the cruiselines because their regular schedule (always beginning and ending on the same day of the week) best fits most people's vacation schedules, and is easier for a cruiseline's planning purposes. If 8 night cruises were as popular and produced as much revenue as you seem to believe, you can bet we would see more of them.

 

It seems like you do see more of them, just not on Royal Caribbean...At least not for the dates I,m interested in(Jan 2012). I,m glad that it makes it easy for them that the cruise starts and end on the same day but thats not a feature thats going to get me on board.

 

I'm still on the fence, stay loyal to Royal and do a a B2B, or go elsewhere for the longer cruise that I would like.

Edited February 19, 2011 by Gilgo Surfer

[Texas Teen]

We need more ships from the US in the Summer! In the Summer, Royal Caribbean is hopeporting ships in the US too few and far between, while Europe has plenty of ships within a close range of each other. And look at how successful Carnival is with most of their ships in the US! (However, only having one ship in Europe is crazy. Royal Caribbean would need to have at least a half dozen more ships in Europe than that.)

[tntornadox]

Then again, I know why Carnival does it... they have Costa there which is basically the European version of Carnival (Joe Farcus designs their interiors too), so they don't wanna give themselves competition. That's why they keep their fleet in the Caribbean.

 

Carnival Magic will do a few cruises in Europe next season before crossing the pond to her new home at Galveston... where she will be a huge hit, i'm sure.

Edited February 19, 2011 by tntornadox

[negc]

We need more ships from the US in the Summer! In the Summer, Royal Caribbean is hopeporting ships in the US too few and far between, while Europe has plenty of ships within a close range of each other. And look at how successful Carnival is with most of their ships in the US! (However, only having one ship in Europe is crazy. Royal Caribbean would need to have at least a half dozen more ships in Europe than that.)

 

Supply and demand! The cruiselines deploy their vessels where they believe that they will generate the most revenue and most profit. That translates into moving ships to Alaska and Europe in the summer months and back to the US in the Fall and Winter. It is really very simple if you look at things logically and not emotionally.

[tntornadox]

Until European money dries up then they come crying home to the U.S.... just look at the recession. Funny how we have become the 'fall back' income of the cruise indutry...

[jewopaho]

Supply and demand! The cruiselines deploy their vessels where they believe that they will generate the most revenue and most profit. That translates into moving ships to Alaska and Europe in the summer months and back to the US in the Fall and Winter. It is really very simple if you look at things logically and not emotionally.

And there you have it ... pure and simple. As I previously noted, if the demand and profitability were here, the ships wouldn't leave. There isn't ... so they do.

[w&k]

I prefer the longer trips, and would like them back in Florida as well! Getting to San Juan is quite expensive, and a definite ordeal.

 

We did a 14-day out of Jacksonville on Zenith, and absolutely loved it - it was our first long cruise, and 7 would never be the enough again.

 

We then tried the 11-day Empress out of San Juan, and it was so great, we did it again the following year. Next up was the 11-day Galaxy out of San Juan.

 

If you know your ships... you will notice that all three have been sent out of their respective fleets. When we sailed them, they were full and just wonderful.

 

After the last San Juan trip, I swore never again. And when we took a 15-day Panama Canal on Radiance, I swore no larger of a ship.

 

We bailed on RCL, and did the 14-day Grand Princess twice, and it was great!. I just went to book it again, and they no longer have it available - ACK!

 

So... I am having to eat my words. We leave for San Juan on Friday, and get on the Adventure of the Seas on Sunday. Then we taxi over to the other side of the port and get on Carnival Victory for 7 more days.

 

All of that so we can get to Curacao, St. Kitts and Dominica.

 

I may have to consider HAL if something doesn't give...

 

Wendy

[Gilgo Surfer]

Supply and demand! The cruiselines deploy their vessels where they believe that they will generate the most revenue and most profit. That translates into moving ships to Alaska and Europe in the summer months and back to the US in the Fall and Winter. It is really very simple if you look at things logically and not emotionally.

 

why does the supply and demand only apply to Royal Caribbean? I see much better itineraries on other lines(at least for the dates I am looking for).

Edited February 20, 2011 by Gilgo Surfer

[CruisinGerman]

For those of you who say that Carnival only has 1 ship in Europe, you are forgetting that Carnival also has in Europe:

 

Costa Cruises

P&O Cruises

AIDA Cruises

Iberocruceros

Seabourn (in summer)

At least 1 Cunard ship (in summer)

Holland America in summer

and I'm probably forgetting some more ......

 

Royal Caribbean has RCCL in Europe, Celebrity (several ships), Pullmantur cruises (2 ships for the Spanish market)

 

Just Costa itself has about 16 ships -- not counting the rest.

 

Then there's MSC cruises -- privately owned -- they have about 10 or 11 ships.

 

And the NCL group has so many ships in Europe in the summer -- Jade, Gem, Epic, Regent Ships, Oceania Ships.

 

If Florida presented so much business, why would NCL pull its newest, biggest ship and send it to Barcelona for the summer.

 

And despite so many ships and so much capacity in Europe, the ships are always full to capacity and you NEVER see bargain prices except for the transatlantics and for the colder parts of the season at the beginning and the end of each season.

 

So many of you folks advocate RCCL abandoning Europe and leaving all the business to Carnival and MSC. I'm sure they would like that.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

Edited February 20, 2011 by CruisinGerman

[spencercoop]

For those of you who say that Carnival only has 1 ship in Europe, you are forgetting that Carnival also has in Europe:

 

Costa Cruises

P&O Cruises

AIDA Cruises

Iberocruceros

Seabourn (in summer)

At least 1 Cunard ship (in summer)

Holland America in summer

and I'm probably forgetting some more ......

 

Royal Caribbean has RCCL in Europe, Celebrity (several ships), Pullmantur cruises (2 ships for the Spanish market)

 

Just Costa itself has about 16 ships -- not counting the rest.

 

Then there's MSC cruises -- privately owned -- they have about 10 or 11 ships.

 

And the NCL group has so many ships in Europe in the summer -- Jade, Gem, Epic, Regent Ships, Oceania Ships.

 

If Florida presented so much business, why would NCL pull its newest, biggest ship and send it to Barcelona for the summer.

 

And despite so many ships and so much capacity in Europe, the ships are always full to capacity and you NEVER see bargain prices except for the transatlantics and for the colder parts of the season at the beginning and the end of each season.

 

So many of you folks advocate RCCL abandoning Europe and leaving all the business to Carnival and MSC. I'm sure they would like that.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Princess also has a lot of ships in Europe.

[negc]

why does the supply and demand only apply to Royal Caribbean? I see much better itineraries on other lines(at least for the dates I am looking for).

 

Who said it does? In comparing Carnival and RCI fares, supply and demand is the primary reason for the difference in price. Supply and demand applies to all lines and each one has to weigh the demand for certain itineraries against that for other itineraries and make its decisions accordingly. What you or I see as "much better itineraries on other lines" may not attract as many RCI passengers as another itinerary that doesn't appeal to us. There may be enough potential passengers to fill one Carnival ship, for example, on a particular itinerary, but not enough to fill both the Carnival ship and a Royal Caribbean ship. If Royal Caribbean finds another itinerary that will provide it with sufficient passengers to fill that ship and, at the same time, generate as much or more revenue, how can you fault them for redeploying that ship?

Cruiselines exist to make a profit and not necessarily to satisfy our individual desires. :)

[CruisinGerman]

I knew I forgot some lines.

 

Princess.

 

Also owned by Carnival.

 

Look how big Carnival actually is -- I never realized it before.

 

How did the anti-monopoly and antitrust authorities in the United States and the European Union ever let Carnival get so big??

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

[Ray in NH]

I have been having trouble finding a cruise out of Florida for next January. I was looking for at least a ten night but might have to settle for seven nights. I saw much better itineraries on another line but have already left a deposit for Royal Caribbean on the Jewel of the Seas a few weeks ago.

 

It is not Royal Caribbean, but have you looked at the Celebrity Silhouette out of Cape Liberty (Bayonne)? It will be doing twelve night cruises to the Caribbean. The first day, or so, will be cool but the ship will be warm. Plus it will not require any airline hassles for you, from LI. Just a thought.

Ray in NH

[Jax129]

I do agree with the sentiments expressed here. But just in case anyone isn't aware of it, I should point out that the Enchantment does 9-night cruises to the Eastern Caribbean out of Baltimore in the summer.

 

That said, I think that RCI ought to pick one of their smaller ships, maybe the Grandeur, and run 5-nighters out of some Florida port during the summer. That way, people whose schedules are such that they can only cruise during the summer would have smaller ship/shorter cruise options, and wouldn't be restricted only to a full week on the Leviathan of the Seas.

I would love to have The Radiance here in Port Canaveral for 4-5 night cruises & I would really love it if they would bring the Mariner back to Canaveral to replace the Monarch. These are just my dream scenarios!;)

[The Big Booper]

I knew I forgot some lines.

 

Princess.

 

Also owned by Carnival.

 

Look how big Carnival actually is -- I never realized it before.

 

How did the anti-monopoly and antitrust authorities in the United States and the European Union ever let Carnival get so big??

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

Actually, when Princess put itself up for sale in the late 90's, Royal had a verbal deal to merge with them. Then Mickey A. swooped in with a better deal and double-talked the EU into approving the merger of Carnival and Princess/P & O.

 

Royal would have been slighly larger then Carnival plc.with that deal.

 

RCCL is the holding company for RC, Celebrity, etc.. RCI is the operating company for Royal Caribbean Cruise Line.

[spencercoop]

I knew I forgot some lines.

 

Princess.

 

Also owned by Carnival.

 

Look how big Carnival actually is -- I never realized it before.

 

How did the anti-monopoly and antitrust authorities in the United States and the European Union ever let Carnival get so big??

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

I know it is amazing how big they are. They have 11 separate cruise brands, 96 ships, and more than 160,000 berths. Plus they have another 10 ships on order.

 

Sorry if any of this info is wrong. I am getting it from Wikipedia.

 

It also says they control 51.6% of the total worldwide cruise market. WOW!!

[ShawninFL]

Am I the only one feeling that I am now sailing on Royal International?

 

 

The itineraries don't bother me so much as I believe Royal Caribbean is outgrowing me. We're Diamond members, but just can't seem to find a ship out of Florida that suits us. We could deal with the Voyager class, but the Freedom class was just too big and service suffered. We like seeing the same bartender or cocktail waiter/waitress each night. We don't find that on these larger ships. We're lucky to see the same personnel twice in a week. We will not even consider Oasis or Allure. So basically, we've had to move onto different lines. We prefer a smaller ship than Voyager, but will tolerate Voyager class if we have to. Looks like Princess will be our new focus until Royal Caribbean begins downsizing some of their ships or move some of the smaller ships to week long or longer cruises.

[negc]

Am I the only one feeling that I am now sailing on Royal International?

 

 

The itineraries don't bother me so much as I believe Royal Caribbean is outgrowing me. We're Diamond members, but just can't seem to find a ship out of Florida that suits us. We could deal with the Voyager class, but the Freedom class was just too big and service suffered. We like seeing the same bartender or cocktail waiter/waitress each night. We don't find that on these larger ships. We're lucky to see the same personnel twice in a week. We will not even consider Oasis or Allure. So basically, we've had to move onto different lines. We prefer a smaller ship than Voyager, but will tolerate Voyager class if we have to. Looks like Princess will be our new focus until Royal Caribbean begins downsizing some of their ships or move some of the smaller ships to week long or longer cruises.

 

Have you tried Jewel of the Seas 10 and 11 night cruises out of Ft. Lauderdale? We haven't found the same problems that you cite when we have sailed on Freedom or Liberty and we were absolutely blown away by everything on the Allure and Oasis, but you obviously have had different experiences. Good luck on another line. Certainly no one line is the right fit for everyone. When we sailed on Dawn Princess (definitely not one of Princess' larger ships) our assistant waiter never seemed to recognize us when she was serving coffee to us in the Horizon Court each morning of our 10 night cruise. I would never claim that she was typical of the type of service one should expect on Princess, but we never did feel that Princess crew members were as friendly or welcoming as those on Royal Caribbean ships.:)

[cruiserbryce]

at least they are still going to the Caribbean...they have abanodoned Mex all together...which is really easy for us since we are right here

[elephant98]

Hats off to the cruise lines for doing what they need to do to stay profitable. There is always a danger of oversaturating the market with too many staterooms, not just across cruiselines, but within the same company. NCL learned all to well the danger in oversaturating the market when they put 3 US flagged ships in Hawaii. And, it started to happen in Alaska the last couple of years when Princess, NCL and others started throwing most of their fleet up there over the summer too. So, I can definitely see the logic in Royal keeping just the Allure, Oasis and Freedom doing 7-night sailing in the Caribbean at certain times of the year.

 

Plus, there is always the possibility that you just might find that you like another cruise line just as well. We were very loyal to NCL for a while, loved the Freestyle concept and their newer ships like the Jewel, Pearl and Pride of Hawaii. Then, after they sort of gutted their loyalty program and we got a little tired of their product, we finally gave a shot to Carnival, taking a 2-night sailing on the Carnival Splendor. We didn't think that we would like it so much, but we did. So, we tried the Carnival Liberty. Terrific ship. We love the new fleet.

 

As for Royal, well now that we have a little one, it has been the best cruise line for us recently because of the family activities offered for those under 2. So, we have taken our last several cruises on them. But, with the limited availability of Royal ships in the Caribbean and competitive prices relative to the Allure and Oasis, we will be sailing Disney next year. So, there are always options. The movement of the Royal fleet elsewhere makes it harder to stay "loyal to Royal," but we are content with the fact that there are still plenty of other comparable options nowadays given all the relatively new ships that are sailing.