Question for you Jones Act experts

[njhorseman]

Sid and Beachchick.. I think I get it now.. So there are "near" foreign ports and "distant" foreign ports and someone (I guess the US Government) has the ports defined into those catagories? Bahamas is defined as a "near" foreign port but if the cruise was going to Aruba that would be defined as a "distant" foreign port and that is why this would not work for the OP?

 

You are correct.

[jmcdon7230]

If the cruise ended in Victoria(which is in Canada) no PSVA violation occurs sine you weren't transported between two US ports as a final destination. A cruise that ends or begins in Canada doesn't have the same problem of a US roundtrip where a person gets on in an intermediate American port. There is no violation for a cruise that ends in Canada and starts anywhere else or where they pick up a passenger at an intermediate US port as long as the person disembarks in a foreign port

 

Victoria wasn't the final destination, just the last port visit. The cruise was round trip from Seattle.

 

Has anyone on these boards actually paid a Jones Act fine? As I said earlier, to my knowledge it's not being enforced.

[smeyer418]

Victoria wasn't the final destination, just the last port visit. The cruise was round trip from Seattle.

 

Has anyone on these boards actually paid a Jones Act fine? As I said earlier, to my knowledge it's not being enforced.

while I personally have not paid the fine, the fines are administered by the CG and collected all the time. There has also been a class action lawsuit against the cruise lines for collecting the fine from passengers when they have not been charged but now its pretty much they collect and return it if the fine is remitted(for a medical emergency as an example). Sometimes when you are delayed because of a carrier problem the carrier pays it for you but you would probably not know that.

 

The last time the DHS proposed a change in the regulations, it created quite an up roar because it would have among other things required foreign flagged cruise ships to spend as much time in foreign ports as they would in US ones....and would have disrupted a significant portion of the sailings from US ports.... The change was ultimately withdrawn. and before some blames this on the current administration, it was proposed under the last one not this one.

[mattR]

Got a work emergency and cannot board the Jewel as planned this Sunday in NYC. The first port of call is a U.S. port (Port Canaveral), after which the ship calls at foreign ports before returning to the U.S. The NCL rep gave us what I'd characterize as about 75% assurance that my boarding in Port Canaveral would not be a Jones Act violation; he did confirm that I'd be able to board even if it does violate the JA, but that in that case I'd be fined in the neighborhood of $300.

 

He also informed the ship and the port authority that I'd be joining the cruise in PC, so we hope that information gets through. :)

 

Any of you Jones Act experts able to confirm that this is not a violation? Anyone foresee other problems?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Did you get on?

[pboedeker]

My personal experience:

 

Missed sailing out of Miami on Costa Atlantica (airline mechanical issue). Cruise line intervened with airline and had us flown to the next port (Key West). We boarded the next day at Key West and never were fined anything. Actually, the cruise line reimburse all of us for the 1/7 of the seven day cruise fare and the airline gave us vouchers for the entire round trip fare.

[smeyer418]

My personal experience:

 

Missed sailing out of Miami on Costa Atlantica (airline mechanical issue). Cruise line intervened with airline and had us flown to the next port (Key West). We boarded the next day at Key West and never were fined anything. Actually, the cruise line reimburse all of us for the 1/7 of the seven day cruise fare and the airline gave us vouchers for the entire round trip fare.

 

its probable that the airline paid the penalty....as long as the ship was returning to Miami... for mechanical airline issues the fine is almost never waived.

[dockrocker]

Did you get on?

 

I did, entirely without drama. Everyone I spoke with/encountered at NCL during the process was completely matter-of-fact and no one even hesitated.

 

Jewel security at Port Canaveral had a not insignificant list of folks in the same boat who were boarding that day. In fact, we were told that this happens every week and that one week when weather was particularly bad, approximately 100 people caught the ship in Florida.

[peg013]

I did, entirely without drama. Everyone I spoke with/encountered at NCL during the process was completely matter-of-fact and no one even hesitated.

 

Jewel security at Port Canaveral had a not insignificant list of folks in the same boat who were boarding that day. In fact, we were told that this happens every week and that one week when weather was particularly bad, approximately 100 people caught the ship in Florida.

 

I'm glad it all worked out for you. How was your cruise????

[dockrocker]

I'm glad it all worked out for you. How was your cruise????

 

Thanks, Peg. It was wonderful to get away. The weather wasn't overly warm in Nassau or Port Canaveral, and it was too rough to tender to the private island, but we didn't care. We just wanted some R&R and we got it.

[Partyatsea]

dock glad it worked out for you :). We always find who we cruise with a much more important than where we go or what the weather is.

[BruceMuzz]

I don't think you understand what I said.

 

I am not permanently getting off in Florida. I am boarding for the first time in Florida.

 

Ship sails from New York.

First port is Cape Canaveral -- I board the ship for the first time there.

I continue to GSC and Nassau with everyone else.

I disembark in NY with everyone else.

 

Does this violate the Jones Act?

 

PVSA Current regulations give you five basic different options:

 

1. A Closed-Loop Cruise

This cruise begins and ends in the same US Port.

PVSA requires that you visit any foreign port during this voyage.

 

2. A cruise that begins in one US Port and ends in another US Port.

PVSA requires that you visit a DISTANT foreign port during this voyage.

The nearest Distant Foreign Ports are Curacao, Aruba, and Bonaire.

 

3. A cruise that begins or ends in San Juan or St Thomas, with the other terminus of the cruise at another US Port.

PVSA requires that you visit any foreign port during this voyage.

 

4. A cruise that has one terminus in a US Port, and the other terminus in a NON-US Port.

PVSA has no specific requirements for this voyage.

 

5. A "Cruise to Nowhere" from a US port, ending in the same US Port.

PVSA has no specific requirements for this voyage (so long as you do not stop at any other ports).

 

Note that for legal purposes, the "Cruise" in question begins when YOU first board the ship, and ends when YOU leave the ship for the final time.

 

For your purposes in this case, it appears that you are considering option #2.

If your ship does not visit a distant foreign port (with you onboard), you will be violating the Passenger Vessel Services Act and will be subject to a fine of $300. However, it often happens that late-boarding passengers are often over-looked or ignored by US Customs / US Coast Guard, and the fine is not imposed.

[bob brown]

I am not saying that it makes it legal(it doesn't), but perhaps as long as someone has paid the 'full fare' for the cruise charged from the legal port, if they miss the ship and get on at the next port, the fine will be overlooked, as they weren't itentionally violating the law, but simply missed the ship. In the case previously cited, where the line gave back 1/7th of the fare...that might be a different matter in the eyes of the authority.

 

Reminds me in a way of the old regulated days of air and bus travel, before the CAB and ICC were eliminated.

Only Greyhound could sell an intrastate ticket from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia. If someone wanted to ride Continental Trailways on that route, they would have to buy a ticket to the next stop, Camden, NJ.

They could simply get off at Philly, and forfeit any remaining value (if any), of the ticket. Trailways would not be penalized for allowing this as long as the passenger paid the interstate fare onto NJ.

I know this is not exactly the same thing, but is an example of protecting the traffic of franchised carriers similar to protecting the traffic of US maritime carriers on domestic routes.

[dockrocker]

PVSA Current regulations give you five basic different options:

 

1. A Closed-Loop Cruise

This cruise begins and ends in the same US Port.

PVSA requires that you visit any foreign port during this voyage.

 

2. A cruise that begins in one US Port and ends in another US Port.

PVSA requires that you visit a DISTANT foreign port during this voyage.

The nearest Distant Foreign Ports are Curacao, Aruba, and Bonaire.

 

3. A cruise that begins or ends in San Juan or St Thomas, with the other terminus of the cruise at another US Port.

PVSA requires that you visit any foreign port during this voyage.

 

4. A cruise that has one terminus in a US Port, and the other terminus in a NON-US Port.

PVSA has no specific requirements for this voyage.

 

5. A "Cruise to Nowhere" from a US port, ending in the same US Port.

PVSA has no specific requirements for this voyage (so long as you do not stop at any other ports).

 

Note that for legal purposes, the "Cruise" in question begins when YOU first board the ship, and ends when YOU leave the ship for the final time.

 

For your purposes in this case, it appears that you are considering option #2.

If your ship does not visit a distant foreign port (with you onboard), you will be violating the Passenger Vessel Services Act and will be subject to a fine of $300. However, it often happens that late-boarding passengers are often over-looked or ignored by US Customs / US Coast Guard, and the fine is not imposed.

 

We established all of these points much earlier in the thread. The cruise is over and done with except for a possible fine coming to me later.