Think its ok to let your underage child drink on board?

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Can US 'children' vote at 18? If so I find it very odd that they are considered old enough to decide who should be in government but not old enough to drink.

 

At what age do you become an adult in America? I always thought it was 18 - the same as UK, Canada, NZ, Australia - and most other 'western' countries.

 

The age of majority, that is, the age at which an individual is considered to be an adult, can vary depending on the activity and the jurisdiction. In your own post, you cited examples of different activities that can (legally) be done at 16 and at 18. A person can be considered mature enough to handle the responsibility of driving at 16, but not voting. The voting age was set at 18 nationally (an amendment to the US Constitution, which supercedes any state laws) at a time when 18-year-olds were being drafted and sent to Vietnam-- it was felt if they're mature enough to be told to fight and die, they're old enough to have a say in the government that mandated they be sent. The 21-year-old alcohol limit is not strictly a national limit; each state can set their own age, but the federal government set a policy that federal highway funds would be withheld from any state that had a lower age. In most states, most highway funds come from the US Department of Transportation, with states contributing some monies themselves. In states where the drinking age had been lowered to 18, there was a sharp rise in drunken driving deaths.

 

For other activities, such as marriage, the age of majority can vary widely from state to state. In Mississippi, for example, there is no minimum age with both parental and judicial consent, so theoretically any child, regardless of age, could legally marry, while a girl of 15 can legally marry without consent of her parents.

[iancal]

Our children also drank wine-but at home with us a the dinner table. Probably at 14 or 15 years old...just a little mind you. More than once my son was in a pub with me...but of course he did not drink alcohol because he was underage and it was a public, licensed, establishment.

[Onessa]

Taking the law and/or rules part out of this picture, the root cause of the problem with the OP's situation is really irresponsible drinking and irresponsible behavior.

 

If this was a cruise that departed/returned to US port - it was against the line's rules for the 18YO to drink. So it was irresponsible for the parents and the friend to have provided the 18YO drinks.

 

But it was the 18 and 21YO getting into a shoving match with other pax (not to mention underaged pax) and the 21YO taking a swing at another pax. That minimally shows irresponsible behavior and indicates that excessing drinking was probably also involved.

 

The 18YO and the 21YO would not have been able to book the cruise by themselves based upon RCCI/X regulations (where age limit to book is 25YO) -- so the parents (even if they had not bought the 18YO drinks) would also be subject to being ejected from the cruise. They are liable for the actions of the U25YO pax that they booked -- that is one of the reasons lines have age limits.

[Waterlily777]

Minimum legal drinking ages around the world:

 

http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/LegalDrinkingAge.html

 

Countries which have 21 as their legal drinking age:

 

Fiji

Pakistan (for non-Muslims, prohibited for Muslims)

Palau

Sri Lanka

United States*

 

* various qualifications or exceptions apply

[Tiggertastic]

My son is 18 this year and before our next cruise. He will have been legally allowed to drink in this country for 6 months before getting on his next cruise.

 

He has been on many cruises and many USA breaks and knows their laws. He is aware he will not be given a waiver on rcl and he isn't bothered as it is the law, however we get on ncl the following week where waivers are allowed and it will be his choice whether he wants us to sign it or not.

 

However he knows the limit is 2 beers a day or we remove the waiver

[wolfganghowell]

Debating the drinking laws is beside the point. They signed a cruise contract and they violated it by providing and purchasing alcohol for someone under 21. Then there was a physical altercation.

 

Having cruised this ship many times here's what I can tell you from firsthand experience in general terms.

 

Captain Bang is an experienced and fair minded Master. He doesn't put up with bad behavior and is not a fan of alcohol related mayhem.

 

One of the benefits of repeating a ship is that often you make friends with crew. We know one of the bartenders and saw him not only refuse to serve a young woman who had a valid Sea Pass card without a photo ID but told her to go get her ID and he would serve her. When she walked away - not happy of course - he said that she could have borrowed the card and that if he served someone underage, he would be fired, no second chances. He even said if she went and complained, they would back him up. She did indeed look very young. She did come back later with her ID and he made her drink. He was respectful both before and after. The part of the story that the bartender was serving them and giving them free shots I find very suspect. Sounds to me like some young men lying to the adults to avoid even more consequences.

 

On the same ship last year, we were onboard during another state's schools spring break. The ship was diligent everywhere about underage drinking. The teens and under 21's were drinking in port where the drinking age was 18 and getting absolutely wasted. The gross part was that almost all of them were doing it WITH their parents knowledge and participation. Way to go teaching your kids about responsible drinking. While waiting to get off in one port, I heard a teen who looked to be about 18 say "I'm gonna have 10 shots" before noon and his mom just laughed.

 

So with that kind of behavior and with parents refusing to regulate their young adults, bravo to the Captain and crew of Voyager for getting those people off the ship.

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Cruise lines will make allowances if it is a European cruise or in areas where they sailing ONLY takes place in International waters where the drinking age is 18.

 

If the cruise departs from the US- my understanding is that the entire cruise is 21 and over.

[Cruise Junky]

What I find the most disturbing out of this whole thread is that you're referring to a 19 year old as a "Child" :eek::eek::eek:

[GITC]

It's not difficult to see both sides of the argument.

 

On the one hand, the contract signed by all cruise passengers is clear about the drinking age regardless of what anybody thinks about age twenty-one being the bar that has been set. Everybody "signs" it so there are no excuses.

 

OTOH, it's a huge stretch to think that eighteen year olds are old enough to vote and get blown to smithereens fighting for their country but can't have a few drinks on a cruise ship.

 

The former outweighs the latter, clearly. A contract is a contract. One is always encouraged to read what they're signing. No argument that the 19 year old is way offside drinking on the ship regardless of what he's able to do in his home state or in his own home and his parents really ought to know better.

 

I agree with those that find it strange to be referring to nineteen year olds as "under age" or, most egregiously, "minors". They might be the former in terms of the ship's rules but are certainly not the latter.

[frankdp]

What I find the most disturbing out of this whole thread is that you're referring to a 19 year old as a "Child" :eek::eek::eek:

 

No disrespect intended but, you don't know many 19 year olds do you?

[caladezi]

Why is it so important to so many of you that your children be allowed to drink? We have enough alcoholic adults in this world without encouraging our kids to join in, with or without their "parents".

[riredsox]

*shrugs* haven't read the thread yet but I'd have no problem giving my 19 or 20 year old a drink on a cruise. Our drinking age here is 19.

 

I've always thought the American drinking age was a little crazy. You can go to jail as an adult, go to war, make your own legal decisions and are functionally an adult in every way... but your judgment isn't trusted to have a drink responsibly.

 

If we're going to treat 20 year olds as kids, they shouldn't be able to enter into legal contracts either.

 

You obviously have never worked in the bar industry! Teenagers cannot and do not know how to drink responsively. I work in a college town pub and these kids have know idea how to drink and not get drunk and into fights and then into a car. I stopped working nights so I wouldn't have to deal with them. When I was 18 and that was the drinking age I myself didn't know how to handle it. It is 21 for a reason and it should be raised to 25!!!

[Cruise Junky]

Canada and the US obviously have different views on what constitutes an adult. The US appears to be one of the last countries in the free world to be a hold out at 21. Strange how our % of drinking and driving fatality rates are virtually the same even though they can drink at 18 or 19 in Canada.

 

Stats show teens introduced to moderate alcohol at home don't go as wild as ones that don't. It's no longer a badge of adulthood and abused. Everyone has an opinion but the stats don't lie.

[PartyAllDaTyme]

Canada and the US obviously have different views on what constitutes an adult. The US appears to be one of the last countries in the free world to be a hold out at 21. Strange how our % of drinking and driving fatality rates are virtually the same even though they can drink at 18 or 19 in Canada.

 

Stats show teens introduced to moderate alcohol at home don't go as wild as ones that don't. It's no longer a badge of adulthood and abused. Everyone has an opinion but the stats don't lie.

 

How do the stats compare for just the 18, 19 and 20 year olds? Same as the overall, or much higher? As I've previously posted, the drinking age in most US states went to 18, along with the voting age, around the time of the Vietnam war. Drunk driving accidents and fatalities involving that age group went up sharply, and not just at first as newly franchised teens went nuts. I don't know if this is particular to the USA because of the culture or what, but it is what it is, and the way seen to best address the issue was to raise the drinking age back up. Of course, it didn't completely eliminate the problem, but accidents and deaths went down, overall.

 

I had posted previously about how I had been introduced to social drinking at a young age. My SIL (no D) had the opposite experience. Raised by strict parents, as soon as she turned 18, she quickly developed a drinking and drug problem. She clearly pins her troubles on the fact that she couldn't wait to do all the forbidden things as soon as she was old enough. DW saw the experience of her sister, and that reinforced her view that her parents were generally correct. Today, she'll have as much as two whole glasses of wine, but only for special occasions. In raising our children, therefore, we did not introduce them to alcohol, but I gave them plenty of stories of my experiences. We told them that we didn't condone underage drinking, but that we wouldn't disown them if they did, just to be very, very careful and not to drive or ride with anyone who had been drinking. They could call us for a ride home, no questions asked, no lectues, no consequences. As a result, they did not have the same raging desire for drinking as some of their friends did. Today, DS drinks moderately, and DD (not quite 21) admits to having an occasional drink when out with older friends, but generally abstains.

[Cruise Junky]

How do the stats compare for just the 18, 19 and 20 year olds? Same as the overall, or much higher? As I've previously posted, the drinking age in most US states went to 18, along with the voting age, around the time of the Vietnam war. Drunk driving accidents and fatalities involving that age group went up sharply, and not just at first as newly franchised teens went nuts. I don't know if this is particular to the USA because of the culture or what, but it is what it is, and the way seen to best address the issue was to raise the drinking age back up. Of course, it didn't completely eliminate the problem, but accidents and deaths went down, overall.

 

I had posted previously about how I had been introduced to social drinking at a young age. My SIL (no D) had the opposite experience. Raised by strict parents, as soon as she turned 18, she quickly developed a drinking and drug problem. She clearly pins her troubles on the fact that she couldn't wait to do all the forbidden things as soon as she was old enough. DW saw the experience of her sister, and that reinforced her view that her parents were generally correct. Today, she'll have as much as two whole glasses of wine, but only for special occasions. In raising our children, therefore, we did not introduce them to alcohol, but I gave them plenty of stories of my experiences. We told them that we didn't condone underage drinking, but that we wouldn't disown them if they did, just to be very, very careful and not to drive or ride with anyone who had been drinking. They could call us for a ride home, no questions asked, no lectues, no consequences. As a result, they did not have the same raging desire for drinking as some of their friends did. Today, DS drinks moderately, and DD (not quite 21) admits to having an occasional drink when out with older friends, but generally abstains.

 

I don't know how they compare just at that age, it would be interesting. I'll look it up at some point. I think it's human nature to go a little crazy for something that's forbidden. I'd much rather introduce it in the home.. a glass of wine with dinner, someone having a beer after cutting the lawn as someone mentioned earlier on this thread. Both my brother and I were raised that way. I'd had my first drink at home way before I turned 19.

 

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it still legal in some states for alcohol to be served to a minor in the presence of their parents? I know that wouldn't follow them onto a cruise ship, there's no arguing those rules but I thought I read somewhere that a few states allow this. *** EDIT*** Found it...

 

http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591

[kennetro]

Just sounds to me like yet another set of parents who's "baby" can do no wrong.

[bbappel]

The drinking age was lowered to 18 around the time of the Vietnam War. The argument was, if they're old enough to get drafted, fight and die for our county, they're old enough to be able to drink. I still agree with the sentiment, but then the explosion in the number of 18 to 21 year olds being killed in drunk driving accidents (not to mention the innocents that they were taking with them) caused the pendulum to swing back.

A little off topic

I've long thought that the drinking age should be lowered - to over 18 and/or out of high school and the driving age raised to 21 so kids learn to drink sensibly before they get behind the steering wheel. Many parents wouldn't go for it because they couldn't just set their teenagers free in whatever car. We drove our kids everywhere because they didn't get their licenses until they were 18. The practiced for about 2 years first with us in the car. It's a safety thing.

[Shep_Proudfoot]

A little off topic

I've long thought that the drinking age should be lowered - to over 18 and/or out of high school and the driving age raised to 21 so kids learn to drink sensibly before they get behind the steering wheel. Many parents wouldn't go for it because they couldn't just set their teenagers free in whatever car. We drove our kids everywhere because they didn't get their licenses until they were 18. The practiced for about 2 years first with us in the car. It's a safety thing.

 

I think that while there should be a gap in the ages between when one gets to drink and when one gets to drive, that 21 is far too old for either. Whether it's the 16 to drink and 18 to drive standard that is common in Europe, or the 18 to drink and 16 to drive that used to be the US norm, I'd prefer either over the ridiculous and repressive 21 year old drinking age that makes us a world laughingstock to many.

[jimandtoni]

The cruise lines changed the drinking age policies after several cruise lines LOST a number of law suits filed against them by parents whose children had DIED of alcohol poisoning after consuming alcohol on cruises. The parents had signed the waivers for their children. The cruise lines still lost the law suits. The most famous one happen on a RCCL ship.

 

Damn...I misspelled drinking in the title and now can't edit it...I HATE making typos!!

[Tiggertastic]

I do find it interesting about the sailing from the US and no waivers. At christmas one of our party was 18, he is from the USA. We sailed out of Miami and back to Miami and was given a waiver. Maybe it differs per cruise line.

[Denarius]

In the UK and in virtually all of Europe the minimum age for alcohol consumtion is 18. It comes as a shock to British 18 to 20 year olds sailing on US ships to find that it is 21 onboard ship, especially when sailing in European waters where it is quite legal for them to take a drink on shore.

[caladezi]

In the UK and in virtually all of Europe the minimum age for alcohol consumtion is 18. It comes as a shock to British 18 to 20 year olds sailing on US ships to find that it is 21 onboard ship, especially when sailing in European waters where it is quite legal for them to take a drink on shore.

 

Then why not book on a British ship? Celebrity sets the rules for their ships and if you don't like them then why sail on them?

[i guide the sky]

How do the stats compare for just the 18, 19 and 20 year olds? Same as the overall, or much higher? As I've previously posted, the drinking age in most US states went to 18, along with the voting age, around the time of the Vietnam war. Drunk driving accidents and fatalities involving that age group went up sharply, and not just at first as newly franchised teens went nuts. I don't know if this is particular to the USA because of the culture or what, but it is what it is, and the way seen to best address the issue was to raise the drinking age back up. Of course, it didn't completely eliminate the problem, but accidents and deaths went down, overall.

 

I had posted previously about how I had been introduced to social drinking at a young age. My SIL (no D) had the opposite experience. Raised by strict parents, as soon as she turned 18, she quickly developed a drinking and drug problem. She clearuly pins her troubles on the fact that she couldn't wait to do all the forbidden things as soon as she was old enough. DW saw the experience of her sister, and that reinforced her view that her parents were generally correct. Today, she'll have as much as two whole glasses of wine, but only for special occasions. In raising our children, therefore, we did not introduce them to alcohol, but I gave them plenty of stories of my experiences. We told them that we didn't condone underage drinking, but that we wouldn't disown them if they did, just to be very, very careful and not to drive or ride with anyone who had been drinking. They could call us for a ride home, no questions asked, no lectues, no consequences. As a result, they did not have the same raging desire for drinking as some of their friends did. Today, DS drinks moderately, and DD (not quite 21) admits to having an occasional drink when out with older friends, but generally abstains.

 

I think you just proved the lower drinking age point. Its education that makes the difference in accidents involving young adults and drinking, not restricting access. My parents had the same rule for me no questions asked when making the right decision, make the wrong and feel the pain!! I drank from 17 on and always did it safely because of the stress my parents put on me to be safe. This carried on into my college days. The problem we have in the US is one of entitelment and bad parenting. Beacause believe me, access was NEVER a problem when I was under 21!

 

Now make what ever judgments you wish about me personally. Just a candid opnion.

[5020trip]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it still legal in some states for alcohol to be served to a minor in the presence of their parents? I know that wouldn't follow them onto a cruise ship, there's no arguing those rules but I thought I read somewhere that a few states allow this. *** EDIT*** Found it...

 

http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591

 

 

In Texas, minors can consume alcohol while under the supervision of a parent or guardian. I don't beleive they can be 'served' by anyone other than the parent or guardian, but if I order it and if I supervise (read: take legal responsibility for) it, then my kid can drink it.

 

I have a number friends who take advantage of this right and in my very unscientific observation, I think it accomplishes the purpose of providing supervised introduction under controlled circumstances while also removing the mystique. We'll have no problem signing the waiver and allowing our 18 year-old to drink when we're cruising the Eastern Med.

[cruisechamp62]

I don't really agree. Adults (anyone over the age of 18) are responsible for their actions.

 

It was the 21 year old that swung, but after being assaulted (pushed). Pretty serious punishment, but maybe he should have been kicked off. But i really think it was a great over reaction to escort all 4 off. Lets add one other little rinkle, the 19 year old was a serving US armed forces member. If he can risk his life to serve our country, why can't he have a drink?

 

Rules are rules, but I think RC may have trouble with this one. This was pretty severe for some drinks, especially when they did not instigate the problem. Please don't tell me everyone one of you blindly follows rules? Some of these ages are arbrary. They could have easily gotten off in Mexico and drank legally, we know the only reason RC changed the age was because of a previous law suite and not out of some "ethical" or moral reason. They would love to sell beer and wine to 18-20 year olds.