Could smaller ships again become viable with higher fuel prices?

[CarnivalPride]

With higher fuel prices, I was wondering, could smaller ships again become viable? After all, Carnival has stated they do not plan on building any ships larger than the Dream Class.

Some of the older Fantasy Class ships will soon need to be replaced, and I don't think mega-huge ships are the solution to replace them, especially because of fuel prices. Personally, a good solution to replace these older Fantasy Class ships would be a new Panamax design similar to the Spirit and Luminosa Classes. The Spirit/Luminosa Class ships are rich in amenities for their size, and would be more marketable than the Fantasy Class ships due to their high number of extended balconies.

Now, one thing to wonder if Carnival were to come up with a new evolution of the Spirit/Luminosa Class: Will the contract be awarded directly to Fincantieri, or will it be tendered out for bids to whichever builder is the low bidder? It would be interesting to see a new Carnival ship by STX Finland Cruise Oy (formerly Kvaerner Masa Yards).

[golfadj]

I think the new ships will be smaller as they will serve smaller markets.

[firefly333]

With higher oil prices, to be viable and profitable, they would need to build larger, not smaller ships. The more pax per ship is the most profitable... not the smallest.

 

Higher oil prices would drive them away from building more smaller ships like Fantasy class ships because they cant hold enough pax. Dream they pack them in like sardines.

[shof515]

Slightly off topic, but considering all of the technology changes with cars such as hybrid engines. I wonder why ship builders has not come with up with a similar concept that is both fuel efficient and economically cheap to run

[CarnivalPride]

With higher oil prices, to be viable and profitable, they would need to build larger, not smaller ships. The more pax per ship is the most profitable... not the smallest.

 

Higher oil prices would drive them away from building more smaller ships like Fantasy class ships because they cant hold enough pax. Dream they pack them in like sardines.

 

If that were the case, why don't airlines buy A380s by the hundreds and serve every single destination with them? Clearly larger ships burn more fuel than smaller ones, and if you can't fill a huge ship, there is no way you are making money.

[firefly333]

If that were the case, why don't airlines buy A380s by the hundreds and serve every single destination with them? Clearly larger ships burn more fuel than smaller ones, and if you can't fill a huge ship, there is no way you are making money.

 

A airplane is more fuel intensive, a ship is not trying to get anywhere fast, and its business is to entertain you, not to get you there in a speedy way.

 

Look at the move of Ecstasy from the gulf to Port Canaveral, to save about half the distance in fuel consumed ... Id say this is the direction, not smaller ships. Move toward fewer ports, ones that dont take as much fuel to get there.

 

Iv heard rumors of smaller ships, but doubt as small as Fantasy class .. just my own logic

[CarnivalPride]

A airplane is more fuel intensive, a ship is not trying to get anywhere fast, and its business is to entertain you, not to get you there in a speedy way.

 

Look at the move of Ecstasy from the gulf to Port Canaveral, to save about half the distance in fuel consumed ... Id say this is the direction, not smaller ships. Move toward fewer ports, ones that dont take as much fuel to get there.

 

Iv heard rumors of smaller ships, but doubt as small as Fantasy class .. just my own logic

 

As I stated, Spirit Class-sized ships would probably be the ideal size. Costa's Luminosa Class ships are an evolution of the Spirit Class, which also incorporates some Vista Class features. A further evolution of the Luminosa design would be a perfect Fantasy Class replacement.

[Bo Didly]

Ships are built with fuel conservation in mind.

Your talking knots not mile per gallon.

[*Mach*]

With higher fuel prices, I was wondering, could smaller ships again become viable? After all, Carnival has stated they do not plan on building any ships larger than the Dream Class.

 

Some of the older Fantasy Class ships will soon need to be replaced, and I don't think mega-huge ships are the solution to replace them, especially because of fuel prices. Personally, a good solution to replace these older Fantasy Class ships would be a new Panamax design similar to the Spirit and Luminosa Classes. The Spirit/Luminosa Class ships are rich in amenities for their size, and would be more marketable than the Fantasy Class ships due to their high number of extended balconies.

 

Now, one thing to wonder if Carnival were to come up with a new evolution of the Spirit/Luminosa Class: Will the contract be awarded directly to Fincantieri, or will it be tendered out for bids to whichever builder is the low bidder? It would be interesting to see a new Carnival ship by STX Finland Cruise Oy (formerly Kvaerner Masa Yards).

 

 

The larger ships cost little extra in fuel to move than do the Fantasy Class. In fact, the newer engines (that run the generators...) are more efficient than those used when the Fantasy Class was built.

I recall well an interview with the designer of the QM2 when he said that they could not construct a ship smaller than what they did as it would not be economically viable. Passengers pay the cost and when you consider a ship that carries 1/3 fewer passengers the economics simply aren't there.

I can see Carnival building more ships of the Conquest size and passenger capacity but I don't think it's terribly likely that we'll see Spirit Class like ships or smaller... With the expansion of the Pamama Canal the 106 foot beam will not longer be an issue.

But, what do I know... I'm a pilot... not a sailor...

:)

[futaba951]

But, what do I know... I'm a pilot... not a sailor...

 

If you flew off an aircraft carrier you could be both.

[*Mach*]

If you flew off an aircraft carrier you could be both.

 

 

Yeah... but I landed... not impacted.

I love my Navy and Marine brothers and sisters but, ya' know, I just love a runway!!!

:)

[DarthGrady]

Whatever they do with their next generation, they need to turn the dial back on passenger numbers a bit. There have been too many complaints of over crowding in Dream reviews for them all to be dismissed as mere slander by disgruntled customers. I hope the next gen ships are really an evolution of some type and not just another rehash of the Destiny design.

[Pee-ah]

..and they need the smaller ships should they ever want to sail the inside passage again here in BC... the larger ships won't fit.. nor will they in Glacier Bay

[kujobie]

We'll also never get anything larger than Spirit Class type ships in my beloved Port of Tampa because of limitations of size for sailing under the Sunshine Skyway bridge. So, I'm with you OP.. Bring on a new Spirit Class ship for the PoT!

[Jolimont]

If that were the case, why don't airlines buy A380s by the hundreds and serve every single destination with them? Clearly larger ships burn more fuel than smaller ones, and if you can't fill a huge ship, there is no way you are making money.

Airlines are buying A380s by the "hundreds" or at least the "dozens" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A380_orders_and_deliveries) but if you want to fly the A380 your best bet is going to be Emirates, not Air France. Meanwhile Boeing is still working out the kinks for the Dreamliner, a direct competitor to the A380 that was supposed to enter production phase in 2007 and still isn't flying commercially in 2011. So much for the outsourcing model.

[golfadj]

Yeah... but I landed... not impacted.

 

I love my Navy and Marine brothers and sisters but, ya' know, I just love a runway!!!

 

:)

 

 

But you did manage to land on a moving runway going side to side and up and down.

 

Have watched many movies of pilots doing this and remarkable that it is done so safely. The skill of the pilots is remarkable.

[golfadj]

Speculation is fun but when they are ready they will tell us what is coming.

[H82seaUgo]

With higher fuel prices, I was wondering, could smaller ships again become viable? After all, Carnival has stated they do not plan on building any ships larger than the Dream Class.

Some of the older Fantasy Class ships will soon need to be replaced, and I don't think mega-huge ships are the solution to replace them, especially because of fuel prices. Personally, a good solution to replace these older Fantasy Class ships would be a new Panamax design similar to the Spirit and Luminosa Classes. The Spirit/Luminosa Class ships are rich in amenities for their size, and would be more marketable than the Fantasy Class ships due to their high number of extended balconies.

Now, one thing to wonder if Carnival were to come up with a new evolution of the Spirit/Luminosa Class: Will the contract be awarded directly to Fincantieri, or will it be tendered out for bids to whichever builder is the low bidder? It would be interesting to see a new Carnival ship by STX Finland Cruise Oy (formerly Kvaerner Masa Yards).

 

first, you must do an analysis of pax counts and rates vs fuel expense for the big ships vs the small ships.

 

then report back with your findings.

[*Mach*]

first, you must do an analysis of pax counts and rates vs fuel expense for the big ships vs the small ships.

 

then report back with your findings.

 

 

Cunard did just that... hence the QM2... 1132 feet... 151,000 gross tons...

:)

[bassmaster150]

ummm the Boeing Dreamliner is not a direct competitor to the A380. The A380 is a double deck plane designed to carry 500+ passengers, the Dreamliner was created to replace the 767. If you were looking for something closer to the A380 competition, then that would be the 747-800.

[Islandbear]

I think the mix of large fuel efficiant mega ships and smaller customer/port friendly smaller ships, will be driven by what the clients want more than just fuel considerations.

 

While the mega ships have tons of activities and can run at a low cost per passanger which translates into great value for price paid. Some cruisers will simply not want to cruise on them because of the lack of intimacy and flexability of ports. This will force lines to offer smaller ships at different price points.

[elcuchio24]

You’re assuming that smaller ships are more per passenger fuel efficient than larger ships? I would not assume that.

[zqvol]

With higher fuel prices, I was wondering, could smaller ships again become viable? After all, Carnival has stated they do not plan on building any ships larger than the Dream Class.

 

Some of the older Fantasy Class ships will soon need to be replaced, and I don't think mega-huge ships are the solution to replace them, especially because of fuel prices. Personally, a good solution to replace these older Fantasy Class ships would be a new Panamax design similar to the Spirit and Luminosa Classes. The Spirit/Luminosa Class ships are rich in amenities for their size, and would be more marketable than the Fantasy Class ships due to their high number of extended balconies.

 

Now, one thing to wonder if Carnival were to come up with a new evolution of the Spirit/Luminosa Class: Will the contract be awarded directly to Fincantieri, or will it be tendered out for bids to whichever builder is the low bidder? It would be interesting to see a new Carnival ship by STX Finland Cruise Oy (formerly Kvaerner Masa Yards).

 

Why do you think Fantasy class ships will need to be replaced soon. They have at least 20 more years of viable life left. The only real difference between those ships and the new ones is balconies.

[SkyMaster]

Yeah... but I landed... not impacted.

 

I love my Navy and Marine brothers and sisters but, ya' know, I just love a runway!!!

 

:)

 

 

HA! We love our runways too, it's just that ours are a lot shorter,,,,,and move! :eek:

 

"SKY"

[golfadj]

Why do you think Fantasy class ships will need to be replaced soon. They have at least 20 more years of viable life left. The only real difference between those ships and the new ones is balconies.

 

Seems like Carnival sells them off or turns them over to another sister company much before that.