What is The Retreat?

[SeaBunny]

Is it one of those "pay extra" areas? What makes it different/special?

[jtl513]

On the Euordam it's private cabanas, with amenities, for rent. On the Veendam and Rotterdam it's just a free outdoor area on the stern. Which ship are you asking about?

Edited August 16, 2011 by jtl513

[SeaBunny]

Rotterdam. Thanks for the info! I'm not a big fan of those private areas. Glad to hear this is not one of them.

[HamOp]

Let me try this again....See my next post for photos

Edited August 16, 2011 by HamOp
correction of photo layout

[HamOp]

Here are several photos of the Retreat on the Veendam last week. Not sure if the Rotterdam has the same set up or not.

 

Hope this gives you some idea of what it's like.

 

 

 

[jtl513]

Here are several photos of the Retreat on the Veendam last week. Not sure if the Rotterdam has the same set up or not.

They're not the same any more. The Rotterdam still has the large "wading pool".

 

For a "virtual tour" CLICK HERE (It takes a few seconds to load.)

Edited August 16, 2011 by jtl513

[gwenmarie]

They're not the same any more. The Rotterdam still has the large "wading pool".

 

For a "virtual tour" CLICK HERE (It takes a few seconds to load.)

 

Could someone tell me why HAL has both ships in South America for the winter season but summer there???? The Retreat looks like a great place for an outdoor pool!

[bermuda triangle]

The Retreat looks like a great place for an outdoor pool!

 

There was an outdoor pool there..until they replaced them with the retreat..

Laura

[bermuda triangle]

Here are several photos of the Retreat on the Veendam last week. Not sure if the Rotterdam has the same set up or not.

 

Hope this gives you some idea of what it's like.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the photos..so much better than the splash water all over the place wading pool..:)

[doncarlos]

On Veendam and Rotterdam it is often called by other names . The ones that come to mind [ those suitable for a family wedsite ] are mistake, a step backward , a joke , a bad joke , an area ruined by the human mind and hand , waste and mismanagement , the big B [ big boo boo ] , the big drip [ by those orignal occupants of the new cabins below ] . For further clarification, suggest you don't call Hal pr office as that would cause them further agro . Better bet would be seach this site for stories from vets of cruises post drydock [ twice in Veendam's case .....the orig mess and the attempt to fix this past Spring. I recall Rotterdam was Chistmas 09 .

[RedmondCruiser]

Here are several photos of the Retreat on the Veendam last week. Not sure if the Rotterdam has the same set up or not.

 

Hope this gives you some idea of what it's like.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the pictures. I hope and pray that they do not do this disaster to the Rotterdam and install a real sea view pool, but since they would have to give us 4 inside cabins I think we can all guess as to what decision they will reach. The hot tub menagerie on the Veendam is a mismatched bad joke. I would love to hear the rationalization from HAL as to how they arrived at this decision.

[InTheWASide]

Here are several photos of the Retreat on the Veendam last week. Not sure if the Rotterdam has the same set up or not.

 

Hope this gives you some idea of what it's like.

 

 

 

 

 

Great pictures! Any chance you have more of this area, or a link to an album you can share?

[HamOp]

Great pictures! Any chance you have more of this area, or a link to an album you can share?

 

Thanks! I don't have any other ones of the Retreat area, but I will be doing an album in a few days. Don't wish to make it public, but if you send me your email, I'll give you the URL when it's done.

Or, if you have a specific area of the ship you would like to see, let me know here and I'll try to post some pix.

You can email me here.

[shandryl]

I hope they don't do anything that stupid to the Noordam............what a shame........some marketing idiot thought of that one. :mad: Oh My!! sorry did I say that out loud! LOL That comment was meant for my *inside voice*

Edited August 17, 2011 by shandryl

[NordicPrince]

Many posters have given their opinion of the Retreat areas of the Veendam and the Rotterdam. However, I wonder how many of the posters have actually had the personal experience of sailing on either of these vessels since the Retreats have been installed. In addition, it seems that no one has considered the business rationale which may have compelled this decision making process.

 

First of all, I have experienced Vendam Retreat 1.0 and Veendam Retreat 2.0. It would be an understatement IMHO to say that Veendam 1.0 was not envisioned, executed or thought out properly to consider the actual operating considerations of the ship. Basically it was an unmitigated disaster with loose tiles, water slopping over the sides of the pool and no tangible benefit in actuality.

 

Veendam 2.0 shows that someone at HAL recognized that a considerable error had been made and that a reconfiguration of the area was necessary. From the conversation on this board, it appears that no one has ever made a poor decision in business which they regretted afterward.

 

Instead of beating HAL to death, IMHO they should be lauded for recognizing a mistake and doing something to correct it. Veendam 2.0 is now a valuable and esthetically pleasing addition to the ship. On my recent 6/11 cruise the hot tubs were constantly being enjoyed by guests.

 

I did not have the experience of enjoying an aft pool on the Veendam or the Rotterdam. However, I did have the good fortune to enjoy an aft pool on the NCL Dreamward (NCL Dream)(FYI no longer in operation with NCL) and enjoyed it tremendously.

 

Now, one can argue that the decision to remove the aft pools and replace them with cabins was it self flawed. In the ideal world where ships are only works of maritime art this would probably be true. However the realities of the ever changing business of cruising requires that ships find increasing sources of revenues in order to remain operationally viable.

 

If the alternatives were to keep these ships operational by generating more passenger revenues per cruise versus the necessity of having these ships put out to pasture and lost to the HAL fleet, which of us would not choose the former?

 

Finally, there is a segment of the cruising public to whom change of any type for whatever necessary reason is poison.

 

To those who would choose not to sail on these vessels because the absence of an aft pool would ruin their enjoyment of their cruise it is their perogative to avoid these ships.

Edited August 17, 2011 by NordicPrince

[RedmondCruiser]

Many posters have given their opinion of the Retreat areas of the Veendam and the Rotterdam. However, I wonder how many of the posters have actually had the personal experience of sailing on either of these vessels since the Retreats have been installed. In addition, it seems that no one has considered the business rationale which may have compelled this decision making process.

 

First of all, I have experienced Vendam Retreat 1.0 and Veendam Retreat 2.0. It would be an understatement IMHO to say that Veendam 1.0 was not envisioned, executed or thought out properly to consider the actual operating considerations of the ship. Basically it was an unmitigated disaster with loose tiles, water slopping over the sides of the pool and no tangible benefit in actuality.

 

Veendam 2.0 shows that someone at HAL recognized that a considerable error had been made and that a reconfiguration of the area was necessary. From the conversation on this board, it appears that no one has ever made a poor decision in business which they regretted afterward.

 

Instead of beating HAL to death, IMHO they should be lauded for recognizing a mistake and doing something to correct it. Veendam 2.0 is now a valuable and esthetically pleasing addition to the ship. On my recent 6/11 cruise the hot tubs were constantly being enjoyed by guests.

 

I did not have the experience of enjoying an aft pool on the Veendam or the Rotterdam. However, I did have the good fortune to enjoy an aft pool on the NCL Dreamward (NCL Dream)(FYI no longer in operation with NCL) and enjoyed it tremendously.

 

Now, one can argue that the decision to remove the aft pools and replace them with cabins was it self flawed. In the ideal world where ships are only works of maritime art this would probably be true. However the realities of the ever changing business of cruising requires that ships find increasing sources of revenues in order to remain operationally viable.

 

If the alternatives were to keep these ships operational by generating more passenger revenues per cruise versus the necessity of having these ships put out to pasture and lost to the HAL fleet, which of us would not choose the former?

 

Finally, there is a segment of the cruising public to whom change of any type for whatever necessary reason is poison.

 

To those who would choose not to sail on these vessels because the absence of an aft pool would ruin their enjoyment of their cruise it is their perogative to avoid these ships.

 

You are one of the few posters who has been on Veendam 1.0 and Veendam 2.0. I, for one, have only been on the Rotterdam since the wading pool concept was initiated. I thought that the pizza bar and the sea view bar were welcome additions to the aft deck, but thats where it stops. The wading pool concept was ill conceived and poorly constructed. Removing these things, while in drydock, is a welcome decision. The problem is that they compound the error with the addition to the hot tub menagerie. I differ from your asthetic feelings about the Veendam though. With that horrible overhang, duck bill and a big screen TV they have ruined the lines of the ship.

Having been on 38 HAL cruises I have spent a great deal of time at the Sea View Pool and I will not do a warm weather sailing on either the Veendam or the Rotterdam. Sitting in a 102 degree hot tub on a 90 degree Caribbean day is not my thing. I enjoy the aft pool to cool off, and since the kids generally take over the lido pool that only leaves the aft pool, which HAL has eliminated on these two ships. Since this mistake was signed off at the highest levels don't hold your breath thinking that they will admit to a mistake. They just can't bear to eliminate those 4 inside cabins to accomodate a Sea View Pool.

I love HAL but this was a monumental mistake that eliminated something that I constantly use.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Many posters have given their opinion of the Retreat areas of the Veendam and the Rotterdam. However, I wonder how many of the posters have actually had the personal experience of sailing on either of these vessels since the Retreats have been installed. In addition, it seems that no one has considered the business rationale which may have compelled this decision making process.

 

First of all, I have experienced Vendam Retreat 1.0 and Veendam Retreat 2.0. It would be an understatement IMHO to say that Veendam 1.0 was not envisioned, executed or thought out properly to consider the actual operating considerations of the ship. Basically it was an unmitigated disaster with loose tiles, water slopping over the sides of the pool and no tangible benefit in actuality.

 

I think most people here appreciate the business rationale. That was always part of the discussion here when the Retreat was new. More cabins means more revenue. But, as you say, the design of Retreat 1.0 was a disaster. I may have made some less than wonderful business decisions in my day, but never anything so downright stupid! And they sold the idea as a wonderful innovation--did they think nobody would figure out the real reason for the change????

 

But, yes, kudos to HAL for addressing the problems on Veendam and not messing up the other ships.

 

Finally, there is a segment of the cruising public to whom change of any type for whatever necessary reason is poison.

You make the anti-Retreat people sound like cranks. This was a bad change. Ironically, if you're talking art/aesthetics, the one good thing about the Retreat on Veendam was that it was attractive. But it wasn't functional.

 

To those who would choose not to sail on these vessels because the absence of an aft pool would ruin their enjoyment of their cruise it is their perogative to avoid these ships.

From your tone, I get the feeling that you think that's a cranky/foolish point of view. But if lounging by a pool is a part of a warm-weather cruise, then this is a real issue. Not so much for me, I like the shade of promenade deck. But I've seen how busy pool areas are on ships, and it's obviously a big part of a sea day for many passengers. The semi-enclosed Lido pool is not sufficient for a full ship. And, as others have pointed out, HAL keeps sending Veendam into warm-weather itineraries where a second pool would be a real plus. HAL knew they were sending her to Bermuda and South America (in their summer), so why take out her second pool?

[3rdGenCunarder]

On Veendam and Rotterdam it is often called by other names . The ones that come to mind [ those suitable for a family wedsite ] are mistake, a step backward , a joke , a bad joke , an area ruined by the human mind and hand , waste and mismanagement , the big B [ big boo boo ] , the big drip [ by those orignal occupants of the new cabins below ] . For further clarification, suggest you don't call Hal pr office as that would cause them further agro . Better bet would be seach this site for stories from vets of cruises post drydock [ twice in Veendam's case .....the orig mess and the attempt to fix this past Spring. I recall Rotterdam was Chistmas 09 .

 

You forgot "poolette" and "giant footbath."

[pms4104]

You forgot "poolette" and "giant footbath."

And I still take great pride in being the person here who first coined the term "poolette" for the Veendam Retreat 1.0:D

[bermuda triangle]

Many posters have given their opinion of the Retreat areas of the Veendam and the Rotterdam. However, I wonder how many of the posters have actually had the personal experience of sailing on either of these vessels since the Retreats have been installed. In addition, it seems that no one has considered the business rationale which may have compelled this decision making process.

 

First of all, I have experienced Vendam Retreat 1.0 and Veendam Retreat 2.0. It would be an understatement IMHO to say that Veendam 1.0 was not envisioned, executed or thought out properly to consider the actual operating considerations of the ship. Basically it was an unmitigated disaster with loose tiles, water slopping over the sides of the pool and no tangible benefit in actuality.

 

Veendam 2.0 shows that someone at HAL recognized that a considerable error had been made and that a reconfiguration of the area was necessary. From the conversation on this board, it appears that no one has ever made a poor decision in business which they regretted afterward.

 

Instead of beating HAL to death, IMHO they should be lauded for recognizing a mistake and doing something to correct it. Veendam 2.0 is now a valuable and esthetically pleasing addition to the ship. On my recent 6/11 cruise the hot tubs were constantly being enjoyed by guests.

 

I did not have the experience of enjoying an aft pool on the Veendam or the Rotterdam. However, I did have the good fortune to enjoy an aft pool on the NCL Dreamward (NCL Dream)(FYI no longer in operation with NCL) and enjoyed it tremendously.

 

Now, one can argue that the decision to remove the aft pools and replace them with cabins was it self flawed. In the ideal world where ships are only works of maritime art this would probably be true. However the realities of the ever changing business of cruising requires that ships find increasing sources of revenues in order to remain operationally viable.

 

If the alternatives were to keep these ships operational by generating more passenger revenues per cruise versus the necessity of having these ships put out to pasture and lost to the HAL fleet, which of us would not choose the former?

 

Finally, there is a segment of the cruising public to whom change of any type for whatever necessary reason is poison.

 

To those who would choose not to sail on these vessels because the absence of an aft pool would ruin their enjoyment of their cruise it is their perogative to avoid these ships.

 

I have sailed twice on Veendam retreat 1.0 and I will be sailing on Veendam retreat 2.0 in less than three weeks.

The aft pool is my favorite pool on any ship. One midship pool is not enough for 1000+ passengers which essentially is what happened on the Veendam.

I chose to do Caribbean Princess' last NYC to BDA/Carib cruise this July because she has a covered aft pool (there is shade and I am fair skinned and I've heard rumors that the night club covering the pool may be relocated) but the views are still amazing.

I am going on the Veendam as a last minute cruise, I am overjoyed that they corrected some of retreat 1.0's problems. I'm sure the people in the cabins below the retreat are happy as well since I haven't read of any complaints of water leaking into them since the refit.

HAL once added cabins to the old Westerdam by slicing her in half and adding a new middle portion. This left the pools in place and added the important revenue boosting cabins. Certainly a better idea in my opinion. And yes I had sailed the Westerdam pre and post expansion.

 

Laura

[treggeee]

I was on the veendam the 7th - 14th and i have to say, i loved the retreat. It seemed to be "kid free" i would have loved to enjoy the mid pool, but it was always inundated with children splashing and running around, even taking up prime chairs around the pool.

So if your going kid free like 75% of the cruisers, i think you would enjoy this area. Oh wait. Its a smoking area. I am a smoker so i enjoyed being able to lounge, drink, smoke, tan etc.

[NordicPrince]

I chose to do Caribbean Princess' last NYC to BDA/Carib cruise this July because she has a covered aft pool (there is shade and I am fair skinned and I've heard rumors that the night club covering the pool may be relocated) but the views are still amazing.

Laura

 

Comparing Caribbean Princess (110,000 GRT) to Veendam (60,000 GRT)

is like comparing apples to oranges. Obviously Caribbean Princess has a lot more room to work with.

[NordicPrince]

They just can't bear to eliminate those 4 inside cabins to accomodate a Sea View Pool.

 

 

Not being a maritime engineer the thought occured to me that having a sizeable pool in the aft area in a ship location which is now 2-3 decks higher than it was before may present weight considerations affecting the

stability and manuverability of the ship.

 

Just a thought.

[glutenhab]

Anything like a Retreat Area on Zaandam?

[bermuda triangle]

Comparing Caribbean Princess (110,000 GRT) to Veendam (60,000 GRT)

is like comparing apples to oranges. Obviously Caribbean Princess has a lot more room to work with.

 

I wasn't comparing them..I was explaining about the aft pool. Obviously you like to argue and I'm not going to do that with you. Its pointless. HAL screwed up and there first version of the retreat was a failure, as I've said I can't wait to see this version. HAL could have done a split down the middle and add cabins as they did with the old westerdam, which would have left the aft pool in place.

Happy Cruising!!

Laura

Edited August 17, 2011 by bermuda triangle