Carnival faces lawsuit over pay

[BabsandPaul]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/local/sfl-zcarn08apr08,0,5316641.story?coll=sfla-business-headlines

[AIMS312]

From the article:

"It isn't clear what the overtime pay rate would be. A copy of a seafarer's agreement for waiter Octavian Miron, which was attached to the suit, lists his daily wage as $1.60 but doesn't say what rate applies to "extra overtime" work."

 

 

You have got to be kidding me. I know the US Labor Laws don't apply for these workers, but $ 1.60?!!!! :eek: Per day or per hour......either way, that's just horrible.

And yes, I know they rely on our tips, but my goodness!

[L2J]

Looks like a few folks will be "leaving" CCL.

[gospelle]

Just goes to show you why you should tip the cruise staff.

[GoinCruisin]

A few years ago it was only $1.40 a day... so looks like they got a raise :rolleyes:

[SouthernCaribbean]

From the article:

"It isn't clear what the overtime pay rate would be. A copy of a seafarer's agreement for waiter Octavian Miron, which was attached to the suit, lists his daily wage as $1.60 but doesn't say what rate applies to "extra overtime" work."

 

 

You have got to be kidding me. I know the US Labor Laws don't apply for these workers, but $ 1.60?!!!! :eek: Per day or per hour......either way, that's just horrible.

And yes, I know they rely on our tips, but my goodness!

 

 

Yes, they are paid $50 a month, but I know of several workers that make about $40,000+ when you include their tips.

[alwalaska]

I assume room and board is included in their pay as well.

[AIMS312]

I assume room and board is included in their pay as well.

 

 

Yes, and meals, crew parties, and on some ships a small internet cafe, (I also think calls home,but not sure). I watched a travel channel show about cruise ships that was pretty interesting.

[SouthernCaribbean]

I assume room and board is included in their pay as well.

 

yes it is.

[Ehpride]

If anybody's interested there's a cruise secrets show on the travel channel at 10 p.m. Eastern time tonight.

[SouthernCaribbean]

Yes, and meals, crew parties, and on some ships a small internet cafe, (I also think calls home,but not sure). I watched a travel channel show about cruise ships that was pretty interesting.

 

They have to pay to use the crew internet cafe, most ports have shops that offer deep discounts to crew members.

[L2J]

I assume room and board is included in their pay as well.

 

Yes, but from what I've heard neither is anything to write home about.

[RWolver672]

I must be missing something here. Even though I disagree with it, I thought that the cruise ships are registered under a foreign flag so that they don't have to follow US guidelines such as overtime payments or minimum wages. I always thought that compensation for overtime was just something the US had laws for. Would the employees of a ship registered in Panama even be protected by those laws? Just curious.

[corina27]

Not paying them for their overtime thats not good,they work hard and should be paid.

[yuyi64]

I must be missing something here. Even though I disagree with it, I thought that the cruise ships are registered under a foreign flag so that they don't have to follow US guidelines such as overtime payments or minimum wages. I always thought that compensation for overtime was just something the US had laws for. Would the employees of a ship registered in Panama even be protected by those laws? Just curious.

 

You are correct. This, along with relief from other US government regulations and taxation, is the reason why most cruise ships are registered abroad. I think the chances that the plaintiffs will win this case are slim and none.

[voyagerfl]

The suit says standard contracts call for Carnival ship employees to be paid weekly for 42 base hours and 28 overtime hours. When employees were required to work more than that, Carnival used various strategies to avoid payment, Ayala said.

Yes, they are paid $50 a month, but I know of several workers that make about $40,000+ when you include their tips.

 

WoW...BUT....they are talking bout Overtime pay for hours worked beyond 70 hours a week !!

 

 

[F5Loar]

If you do the math on a cabin steward ($3.50 per day per person) and he has some 15 rooms to clean you can easily get up to the $40,000 per year.

That's big money to these people when you factor in the free room and board. Where do I sign up?

[gospelle]

Big money??? Are you mental?:confused:

 

If you have the initiative to work 70+ hours a week, 7 days a week, you should easily make more than $40,000 a year. Heck, living in Canada or the US provides enough opportunity that anyone with that kind of determination should be able to make $100,000 easy.

 

Heck, I'll hire you for $40,000 a year if you work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week. And you can share a room in the basement of my restaraunt and eat what the restaraunt has left over each day. Oh, but of course you'll not be permitted to leave the restaraunt, and you must stay in the basement when not working. I may need you to work more than 12 hours a day on some days, well, most days, and I'm afraid I won't pay you for those extra hours.

 

Oh, and you'll have to have a nice cheery attitude, and take lots of crap from the occasional customer, or we'll have to reduce your $40,000 a little bit. Did I mention you'll have to sing and dance at in the restaraunt as well? Shouldn't be a problem with your kind of enthusiasim!

[tjohn159d]

I must be missing something here. Even though I disagree with it, I thought that the cruise ships are registered under a foreign flag so that they don't have to follow US guidelines such as overtime payments or minimum wages. I always thought that compensation for overtime was just something the US had laws for. Would the employees of a ship registered in Panama even be protected by those laws? Just curious.

It looked to me like it wasnt anything to do with a country's law as much as a union contract. Dont forget they have total medical coverage included, also. I believe that is more the reason there is a shps doctor, than having one availble for the passengers.

[glrounds]

I'm sorry, but an accurate discussion of the crews "plight" must be put into its proper CULTURAL context.

 

To most of the cultures these workers come from $40,000 without the theft of the IRS and our respective states is a huge hunk of money. Throw in free room, board, and uniforms and to most of the crew this is a "dream job". I would bet money that for every one selected to work the cruise ships there are 10 that are devastated they weren't. ;)

 

At the internet cafe I frequent when I'm in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, the employees get 80 pesos a day (about $7), work 10-12 hours per day, and no room, board, or uniforms. They must also speak good conversational English or take classes in English to maintain their employment. They consider themselves "fortunate" to have landed and kept such a desirable job. I would guess that the pay scale from other 3rd world countries is skewed even more than Mexico.

 

By contrast, construction laborers work from sun up 'til sundown with a 2 hour midday siesta for 60 pesos (about $5.50) per day. Artisans (tradesmen) get slightly more.

 

Many of the service people working for "teeps" on cruise ships, if careful with their money, work the cruiselines for 7-10 years and go back to their native environments as absolute monarchs, buying a good business and living very well for the rest of their lives. :)

 

Ironically, opportunities like this are available for most young Americans, but, from what I've seen, most of them just squander it. We could learn a lot from cruiselines employees about "the work ethic". :(

[K.T.B.]

But don't forget, there are a lot of Americans and British as well on staff. Granted, most of them appear to be in the "upper echelon", such as cruise director and the like.

 

But I will say this, if I was 18 again and had no ties, I'd consider working on a ship for a year or two. If only for the experience. Yes, you work a LOT, but there are other benefits as well. Like no taxes. ;) (Then again, being an American citizen "working abroad", are you subject to taxes if you maintain a residence here...?)

[glrounds]

But don't forget, there are a lot of Americans and British as well on staff. Granted, most of them appear to be in the "upper echelon", such as cruise director and the like.

 

But I will say this, if I was 18 again and had no ties, I'd consider working on a ship for a year or two. If only for the experience. Yes, you work a LOT, but there are other benefits as well. Like no taxes. ;) (Then again, being an American citizen "working abroad", are you subject to taxes if you maintain a residence here...?)

 

An American citizen is subject to Federal Taxes no matter where in the universe he/she works (some special considerations are made for American workers working in foreign countries in rare situations, but very rarely).

 

"Upper echelon" workers don't work for $50 per month period ! !

 

I would agree also this would be a great opportunity for some young American to experience something very unique even if the work is back-breaking, long monotonous hours at times. :)

 

"Gotta crawl before you walk". :D

[pnjkeith]

THey know what they are getting into when they sign up. Who cares, they can quit at any port and go home. Hell ,wish I could hire some people for $1.60 a day plus tips. Man the cruise lines have got it made.

[K.T.B.]

Actually, they can't. They have contracts, anywhere from 6-12 months long.

[BobBeaSea]

If there is anything good about this story, it should blast the preconceived notions of modern cruisers of what actually goes on aboard cruise ships. There is a reason cruise ships are registered under foreign flags...MONEY. As for other preconceived notions, there are a ton of Americans working abroad who are NOT required to pay income tax. For instance, most Americans working and living in Saudi Arabia (thousands of 'em) do not pay income tax. As for the other preconceived notion of being protected by American labour law, I would prefer to take my chances with European or Canadian legislation....can you say Wal-Mart?