how to adjust the daily service charge with HAL?

[kazu]

OK, I'll play - here's how I see it.

 

Most cruise lines have charged hotel service charges (or tips if you want to call it that for a very, very long time). I know some of the luxury cruise lines don't (That really is in your fare). And HAL at one time did not (it was in your fare too).

 

However, all the cruises I sailed before they added them on automatically posted the appropriate amount to tip everyone.

 

I have had a lot of exceptional service on my cruises and when you look at the cost of the service charge versus the entire cruise it is negligible.

 

These people do a great job.

 

I tip in restaurants, in hotels, etc. I have no hesitation to tip on a cruise.

 

whether you eat in the MDR one time a day or three is irrelevant. You are still eating someplace or getting room service.

 

So, you are still getting service. In any case, I have no issue with this. I know some think we are subsidizing. I don't. I think we are rewarding for service. JMO:)

[mamaofami]

OK, I'll play - here's how I see it.

 

Most cruise lines have charged hotel service charges (or tips if you want to call it that for a very, very long time). I know some of the luxury cruise lines don't (That really is in your fare). And HAL at one time did not (it was in your fare too).

 

However, all the cruises I sailed before they added them on automatically posted the appropriate amount to tip everyone.

 

I have had a lot of exceptional service on my cruises and when you look at the cost of the service charge versus the entire cruise it is negligible.

 

These people do a great job.

 

I tip in restaurants, in hotels, etc. I have no hesitation to tip on a cruise.

 

whether you eat in the MDR one time a day or three is irrelevant. You are still eating someplace or getting room service.

 

So, you are still getting service. In any case, I have no issue with this. I know some think we are subsidizing. I don't. I think we are rewarding for service. JMO:)

 

I totally agree. These people do a wonderful job and I always reward for service. I tip my hairdresser, even though she earns a salary. I tip in a restaurant, etc. DO you leave a tip in a hotel when you vacate the room to show appreciation for the people who clean your room? So why not the crew that does such an outstanding job?

[Wakepatrol]

The cheap will always have some form of rationalization on why they mustn't tip. It's entertaining reading them though. Keep em coming.:)

[NMLady]

I totally agree. These people do a wonderful job and I always reward for service. I tip my hairdresser, even though she earns a salary. I tip in a restaurant, etc. DO you leave a tip in a hotel when you vacate the room to show appreciation for the people who clean your room? ...

 

I always leave a tip each day for the maid/housekeeper when we stay in any hotel, but I can't believe the number of people I've talked to who never leave a tip, even when there's an envelope on a nightstand or desk specifically for that purpose.

[sebring4444]

Lets see. When I go to look up cruises, it doesnt say 499 per person plus a service charge for all the people on the ship serving you, even people you never see.

 

To not pay your employees enough money then try a guilt trip on everyone to squeeze more money out of you is wrong. They should pay the employees a decent wage. And charge each passenger whatever price they can be competitive at.

 

Lets face it. Most of the people working on these ships are slaves. They never leave the ship. So the cruise line can pay them pennies on the dollar.

 

 

For all you who say if you cant afford the mandatory tip you shouldnt go on the cruise. OK, here's one for you. If the cruise line cant pay its employees enough with the price they advertise, nobody should go on their cruise.

[michmike]

Haven't bothered to read all these pages as it typically is more of the same. I can only agree with those who say if you can't (or won't) pay the service charge, then don't cruise.

 

I'd really like to have HAL remove the ability for people to cancel the service charge. If anyone feels that they received inadequate service while on HAL then let them go elsewhere next time. So far on 8 HAL cruises we have received nothing but excellent service.

[Kabana]

We now have another 28 pages of how the money is actually divided up. How much the pastry chef gets etc. I suggest smelling salts.

 

Or some

[Spire2000]

Lets see. When I go to look up cruises, it doesnt say 499 per person plus a service charge for all the people on the ship serving you, even people you never see.

 

To not pay your employees enough money then try a guilt trip on everyone to squeeze more money out of you is wrong. They should pay the employees a decent wage. And charge each passenger whatever price they can be competitive at.

 

Lets face it. Most of the people working on these ships are slaves. They never leave the ship. So the cruise line can pay them pennies on the dollar.

 

 

For all you who say if you cant afford the mandatory tip you shouldnt go on the cruise. OK, here's one for you. If the cruise line cant pay its employees enough with the price they advertise, nobody should go on their cruise.

 

Very interesting points here. Not sure what I think about this whole thing but you raise a good point. All of us cruisers are to blame if the employees of the cruise lines are not paid/treated appropriately.

[Bobblsc]

I always leave a tip each day for the maid/housekeeper when we stay in any hotel, but I can't believe the number of people I've talked to who never leave a tip, even when there's an envelope on a nightstand or desk specifically for that purpose.

 

My housekeeper tipping depends on whether the hotel employees are union (SEIU) or not. If I know they are not union I tend to tip, if union, no tip. My information is that SEIU has successfully bargained for much higher wages than used to exist in the hotel industry. Thus these higher wages are included as a cost which drives up hotel room rates.

 

Cruise lines are not unionized and direct wages are low for service employees, so tips are appropriate. However, at the same time, these employees come from places where wages can be extremely low, and their earnings on cruise ships are very much greater than they could possibly enjoy at home. My opinion is that the standard tips are a very good income for most service people on board.

 

I expect good service. That warrants the standard tip. Outstanding service warrants an extra tip. Poor service warrants a reduction from the standard tip. Therein lies the problem with HAL's automatic charge. I have been told by HAL people on board that the total of tips is split 30% for room stewards, 30% for dining wait staff, and 40% for other employees, e.g. front desk and laundry people.

 

I do not like that. Other cruise lines do not have such a split, as far as I know.

 

We sailed TA on the Westerdam in 2005. The front desk people gave me much trouble. They charged for mini-bar drinks which we never touched. One such charge was even for more bottles of water in a specific day than were ever in the mini-bar. I phoned the desk several times and made two trips there to correct matters. they were not corrected. These charges were still there as we were exiting the ship at the cruise completion. Also, the laundry lost one undershirt. This was verified even by the laundry's own count. I had much trouble getting compensated. Even so, after I returned to our cabin from the front desk, I received a phone call informing me that there would have to be a deduction for depreciation. How petty can they be?

 

I reduced the standard tip and tipped some cash to the waiters and the cabin stewards. I hope they kept that cash, even though the rules were that they should turn it in to the "pot."

 

OK, so it is gratuity, not tip :D

 

Bob :cool:

[Globaliser]

In the UK we have a mimimum wages for all workers, this system should be applied to cruise ship staff and not rely on passengers ...

You'll find lots of people on both sides of the Atlantic who would agree with you, including me.

 

But as a matter of fact it doesn't. Therefore, if you don't pay the service charge then the crew don't get the money that they should.

 

So even if you don't agree with the current system, you shouldn't take it out on the crew.

[Globaliser]

Lets face it. Most of the people working on these ships are slaves. They never leave the ship. So the cruise line can pay them pennies on the dollar.

An interesting assertion.

 

Do you think this also applies to those who come back for contract after contract after contract?

[soldham]

Would it surprise you if i told you that 21% of the service charge/tips goes directly to HAL and not to the staff. This is the reason cruise lines went to the pooling of tips so that they could get their portion of it by administering it.

 

I can attest that I have been told this by the staff as well. I cannot state a percentage but I have been told that HAL does take some amount for 'administrative expenses' of the fund.

 

For the record I preferred the old way myself but have adjusted and leave the charge as in on account. Usually a bit extra goes to those who have really impressed me.

[Wakepatrol]

My housekeeper tipping depends on whether the hotel employees are union (SEIU) or not. If I know they are not union I tend to tip, if union, no tip. My information is that SEIU has successfully bargained for much higher wages than used to exist in the hotel industry. Thus these higher wages are included as a cost which drives up hotel room rates.

 

 

We sailed TA on the Westerdam in 2005. The front desk people gave me much trouble. They charged for mini-bar drinks which we never touched. One such charge was even for more bottles of water in a specific day than were ever in the mini-bar. I phoned the desk several times and made two trips there to correct matters. they were not corrected. These charges were still there as we were exiting the ship at the cruise completion. Also, the laundry lost one undershirt. This was verified even by the laundry's own count. I had much trouble getting compensated. Even so, after I returned to our cabin from the front desk, I received a phone call informing me that there would have to be a deduction for depreciation. How petty can they be

 

 

Bob :cool:

 

Charged for water and a lost undershirt:eek:

 

I saw a lawyer on television at 4am that says "You're Entitled To A Whole Bunch Of Cash" heck... He could probably get you 20 or 30 million bucks.

[bozemanman]

Can we combine this thread with the "Future of Formal Nights" thread?...Jus askin:D

[kazu]

Can we combine this thread with the "Future of Formal Nights" thread?...Jus askin:D

 

:):D:p:)

[misscolina]

Ok, it is tips or service charge? We always tip the recommended amount but take exception to the distribution. Tips we like to give to the individuals for their personal service to us as a thank you, you go to the hairdresser, you tip whoever does your hair, you do not tip the Salon owner for them to divide with whom ever they think fit. If it is defined as service charge then add it to the cruise fare. I cannot fault the service from cabin stewards, waiters and bus boys but take exception to "others" sharing, when it should be up to the cruise line to give behind the scenes personnel a decent wage. Perhaps the perks to suite guests and upper mariner members should be pared back in order to give the staff a more acceptable salary, if we are looking for parity for all.

[Bobblsc]

Charged for water and a lost undershirt:eek:

 

I saw a lawyer on television at 4am that says "You're Entitled To A Whole Bunch Of Cash" heck... He could probably get you 20 or 30 million bucks.

 

You are not clear, but you may mean that the $50 or so involved should not matter. I answer: The $50 or even $500 would not significantly effect our financial net worth, but that is not the point. The point is that HAL desk personnel were extremely sloppy and kept resisting admitting their error.

 

Your view may be to ignore incompetence. My view is to resist and try to correct incompetence.

 

We have since sailed twice on the Noordam and incurred no such problems. We presented extra gratuities to a few on those cruises.

 

If you want to ignore excess charges, that is up to you. I will never "stand still" for charges I never incurred.

 

Bob :cool:

[Bobblsc]

The cheap will always have some form of rationalization on why they mustn't tip. It's entertaining reading them though. Keep em coming.:)

 

You are applying your own narrow moral judgment to others you know nothing about.

 

Bob :cool:

[Globaliser]

I cannot fault the service from cabin stewards, waiters and bus boys but take exception to "others" sharing, when it should be up to the cruise line to give behind the scenes personnel a decent wage.

Don't assume that all staff who receive tips get to keep it all. There are plenty of places where even genuine tips must be shared with others.

[Spire2000]

So I brought this issue up with my parents who we will be sailing with in March. It is our first trip on HAL, but they will pass the 300 day mark on our cruise. They spend a good part of their time speaking with the crew and the staff. As my dad is a retired Naval officer of 37 years, he has an interest in how the inner workings of the ship are handled and becomes friendly with many staff members.

 

Here are some facts as presented to him consistently by HAL crew and staff. I have no way of confirming any of this other than I know my dad and can't see a reason for him (or the crew members) to make any of this up.

 

- A standard wage for room stewards and dining room staff is $2,500 US a month, before tips. Many veteran staff members get more.

- These workers have no idea if the "service charge" is removed, as their cut is infinitesimal.

- They certainly do not have to "answer for" guests cancelling their service fees.

- Tips given directly to the staff stay with the staff member, even if the "service fee" is cancelled. They do get a little cagey when asked about this, but they make it clear that there are many ways to get around any rules on this one.

- Bar staff get 15% of your drink order, every single time. This is before you might tip them.

 

It is a belief that the rumours floating around that contradict the above points are perpetuated by the cruise line management. One doesn't have to think about it too long before coming with a host of reason that this could be so.

 

Regardless, as much of the above is hearsay, I will be speaking with as many folks as I can on our trip to find the truth. But all that being said, the practice of hiding these "service fees" until the end of your trip is shady and should be rethought.

[Jo-Bob]

So I brought this issue up with my parents who we will be sailing with in March. It is our first trip on HAL, but they will pass the 300 day mark on our cruise. They spend a good part of their time speaking with the crew and the staff. As my dad is a retired Naval officer of 37 years, he has an interest in how the inner workings of the ship are handled and becomes friendly with many staff members.

 

Here are some facts as presented to him consistently by HAL crew and staff. I have no way of confirming any of this other than I know my dad and can't see a reason for him (or the crew members) to make any of this up.

 

- A standard wage for room stewards and dining room staff is $2,500 US a month, before tips. Many veteran staff members get more.

- These workers have no idea if the "service charge" is removed, as their cut is infinitesimal.

- They certainly do not have to "answer for" guests cancelling their service fees.

- Tips given directly to the staff stay with the staff member, even if the "service fee" is cancelled. They do get a little cagey when asked about this, but they make it clear that there are many ways to get around any rules on this one.

- Bar staff get 15% of your drink order, every single time. This is before you might tip them.

 

It is a belief that the rumours floating around that contradict the above points are perpetuated by the cruise line management. One doesn't have to think about it too long before coming with a host of reason that this could be so.

 

Regardless, as much of the above is hearsay, I will be speaking with as many folks as I can on our trip to find the truth. But all that being said, the practice of hiding these "service fees" until the end of your trip is shady and should be rethought.

 

 

Well then. That solves everything:rolleyes:

[Wakepatrol]

There's no "Hiding" of charges. It's all in your cruise documents.

 

Yes the last day of the cruise the lobby is full of those

"Who Knew Nothing About These Charges"

 

I always thought it was rude to ask people "How Much Money They Make":eek:

 

Gotta run I 'm off to finishing school

[Spire2000]

Well then. That solves everything:rolleyes:

 

Just meant to be another perspective.

[Jo-Bob]

Just meant to be another perspective.

 

I realized as much, and I could have been less rude, so apologies for that. However, most of what you posted is contrary to info that has been provided by many, many more 'in the know' folks (over the many years this topic rages on) with closer ties to HAL than number of days sailed. I'm certain some of your information is incorrect, which certainly does not equate to saying your Dad is not telling the truth.

 

I won't wade into the debate of the whole DSC/tipping thing....it's pretty clear to me. I don't need to know where the $ goes, to whom, etc, etc, etc. It is the cost of cruising. It just is. IMO.

[TTFromSommersTown]

Haven't bothered to read all these pages as it typically is more of the same. I can only agree with those who say if you can't (or won't) pay the service charge, then don't cruise.

 

I'd really like to have HAL remove the ability for people to cancel the service charge. If anyone feels that they received inadequate service while on HAL then let them go elsewhere next time. So far on 8 HAL cruises we have received nothing but excellent service.

 

So what you are really saying is that you wish the service charge to be included in the actual cruise fare, i.e. TIPS INCLUDED. This I have to agree with.