Costa Concordia SINKING

[AAAAmerican]

 

People say many words yet.... things do happen otherwise .

 

SHIP HAPPENS ::::

 

 

Did you know more words are in English than French ?

 

 

Did you know the TITANIC never had a GOD-Mother?

It was also never Christened!

 

 

 

Who was the God-Mother of this wrecked, twisted ,ripped, and sunken COSTA Ship?

 

 

 

 

 

Director General of Costa Crociera Gianni Onorato speaking to journalists at the port of Porto Santo Stefano.

 

Onorato said the liner was on its regular, weekly route when it struck a reef.

 

"The ship was doing what it does 52 times a year, going along the route between Civitavecchia and Savona,"

 

 

 

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

Thanks for your input, but no apology will be forthcoming. I was not the only person to find his outrageous last sentence on his initial post to be offensive. I never called into question his professional qualifications or opinions, just that final statement which as I said others also found offensive.

 

We will have to agree to disagree on this one :D

 

Edited to add - You appear to imply that I'm jumping on some sort of bandwagon here. If you read the whole thread, as you say you did, you will see that I said I found the comments offensive almost 24 hours ago - I was one of the first to comment on it. So I do hope that you're not suggesting that I'm some sort of sheep .

 

Not suggesting you are "baaing" at all. :D The only thing he said in his original post, was a comment about flying under a US flag - and in a later post he pointed out some of the countries where ships register to avoid harsher restrictions. That does not make him racist. As last I looked Americans are not a race. It also does not make him xenophobic, as he never insulted anyone's country or suggested he was superior to another.

 

The offenses that were taken by some here were their own assumptions and the further exaggerations of other posters who attributed words to him that he did not say that heightened other people's perceptions to him - in fact - they out and out attacked him. That is beyond acceptable behavior anywhere, and it is violation of Cruise Critic TOS... it is internet mobbing and bullying.

 

How you behave is up to you, but if you put words in someone's mouth that they did not say I will call you on it.

[kruzerci]

We just got off a 10 night Caribbean cruise on Costa Atlantica and did not only have one but two muster drills during the cruise. The first one took place the day after we left Miami - we did not leave until midnight because they were still waiting for some late passengers flying in from Europe. The second muster drill took place 6 days into the cruise. We have done quite a few 10 to 14 night cruises and had never heard of two muster drills during a 10 plus night cruise, but we were assured by several people on board that this is what Costa usually does during cruises longer than 7 nights - however, maybe not in the Mediterranean??

 

Anne

 

That's very interesting... I've never heard of that before.

[skigrams]

When this ship was christened, the bottle never broke!! Maybe that is why the ship has had such bad luck.

 

Bobi

[mferris77]

You know, I just don't get this.

I've dipped in & out of this thread, not read all of it by any means, but each time I check on the last few pages there always seems to be this question. Why?

 

My own personal feeling, nothing more, is that it should be scrapped. I've sailed on Concordia before, but I for one would never feel comfortable again on this particular ship for so many reasons. Why they would wish to patch it up & send it back out on it's travels is beyond me. I think they should just cut their losses.

 

This is all probably academic anyway. It seems it will need to be "chopped up" as it's too big to be moved in one piece.

 

Can you perhaps explain to me though why this issue is so important to you? As I have said, I just don't understand.

 

Lots of people on these boards, myself included, are interested not just in cruising but the ships themselves. I'm curious as to what will happen to the ship as well. I think it's going to be a monumental effort no matter what they have to do - be it attempts to re-float it or if they chop it up in place.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

The guy has been making personal comments at me since I first called him out for saying that this happened because the crew was Italian and not American. I haven't been bickering with him if you'd read back, in fact I've been mostly ignoring him. I only responded then because he AGAIN brought my name up in his pettiness even though I haven't replied to him since yesterday and then AGAIN said that the ship sank because they were non-americans. What about that is rational?

 

He has never once said that. YOU said that and I did read back, every page.

 

"I know the chances of what has happened here is rather slim, but you could rest assured that a US flagged vessel would not have had this accident in the first place, and if it did, there would be an orderly abandon ship, conducted at the highest professional standards. "

 

That is the highly controversial last sentence of his post, which if you had at any point read it honestly, was pointing out that many lines fly under foreign flags of convenience. You made a racist and xenophobic leap which you have kept alive every time he posts. If you had ignored him, I would have had a very boring evening.

[ObscureAllure]

still all this talk about "deckofficer" :rolleyes:

 

 

 

MORE IMPORTANTLY:

Video and more underwater pictures:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeIRpxCBLGk

 

The damage looks so extensive. I really hope that more people were abl to get away from that side and find "higher ground" before the made the plunge.

 

Still no word of if they found those people attached to the new voices - but the last man took a while so I would assume this will, also. Hopefully they can hold on!

[Isklaar]

How you behave is up to you, but if you put words in someone's mouth that they did not say I will call you on it.

 

So then go back through the whole thread and 'call on' everyone else who was also offended by the sentence. Why just pick on me? Pick on others too and 'call them out'. Otherwise I'll assume that YOU are now trying to bully me.

 

Better suggestion? Please drop it. It's adding nothing to the thread.

[reallyitsmema]

Lots of people on these boards, myself included, are interested not just in cruising but the ships themselves. I'm curious as to what will happen to the ship as well. I think it's going to be a monumental effort no matter what they have to do - be it attempts to re-float it or if they chop it up in place.

I totally agree with you but to ask the same question 12 times since the accident happens seems to be a little excessive.

 

From the underwater pictures, it looks like there is a lot more damage. It will be interesting to see if there is damage on that side of the ship that would normally be below waterline. Only time will tell.

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

This is the bit that got everyone's knickers in a twist:

 

 

I was disgusted when I read it. The implication was that any vessel without a US flag is some kind of 3rd world leaky bucket where no-one gives a damn about safety and the crew are incapable of managing a crisis. I found it highly insulting to any line or crew registered outside the US.

 

He backtracked later to clarify that was not what was meant, but it's certainly how I read it initially, and I obviously wasn't alone given the reactions from others.

 

The implication was not his and an honest mariner knows why cruise ships register outside the US. I live outside the US and I didn't take it offensively. I have been on over 70 cruises, worked in tourism for 30 years, and am a flight attendant that can tell you what airlines and planes you couldn't pay me a billion dollars to get on and the same concept was what he was pointing out.

 

It was a conversation starter, and a small group banded together and put words in his mouth. Sorry. I do not wish to argue with you or to make you feel bad, but I think the responses to his comment were WAY HARSH and a certain poster here has even violated TOS in attacking him. It is just beyond what Cruise Critic is supposed to be about... or so I thought.

[AAAAmerican]

Maam,

 

You may have hit right neck at the Cork. Now was it real cork or plastic?;)

 

 

On your next Cruise.. there is always a next one... just as now not yet begun..:cool:

 

 

 

 

When this ship was christened, the bottle never broke!! Maybe that is why the ship has had such bad luck.

 

Bobi

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

How is it possible you've read the thread when you post something such as this. Multiple people have sen his comments and accusations and personal comments, not just myself, and have commented on it. And I have not "kept claiming" anything regarding advertisements, that's the first time I've mentioned it. Again, perhaps you should reread the thread and correct your information before making such accusations. Thank you! :)

 

Seriously, I think the Costa Concordia, it's passengers, and those still missing and or possible dead are more important than this back and forth bickering. Let's stick to the important things, please?

 

-------------- (This is me removing myself from this drama)

 

They are reorting that there are definately voices being heard still on board and the workers are working to find them. I am having trouble following the Italien tweets, but it seems like they haven't found them, yet.

 

Ah... so now I shall be attacked. I have your number.

 

I read this thread, from page 1, in chronology over the past 4 hours. I know exactly what you have said. It is also possible to list the post numbers where you make your accusations and escalate your attacks. They are multiple and they are shrill.

 

I have also addressed other who made the same comments. My next address will be to Cruise Critic.

[ObscureAllure]

Another new video - this one from Fox news. Not sure if this one is legit or not as it's fairly generic but just in case I'll post it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_IBnrLQf68

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

You are also not much of a cruiser. 3 cruise does not give you much cruise experince. I also notice that you only had 3 post before this board. I think you need more cruise experience before you act like you know a lot about cruising.

 

BLESS YOU TIFFANY'S MOM!!! I almost choked on my coke when I read the part about "$1200 and a 50 hour work week". Any person who has been on enough cruises can tell you that there is no such thing as a 50 hour work week on a cruise. I've been on well over 70, not even shop personnel, who have the cushiest posts on the ship work 50 hours a week.

 

You are a smart cookie!

[cruiserfanfromct]

When this ship was christened, the bottle never broke!! Maybe that is why the ship has had such bad luck.

 

Bobi

 

Very true - the bottle didn't break and according to maritime superstition a ship that isn't properly christened is considered unlucky. A champagne bottle that doesn't break is a particularly bad omen. And this happened on Friday the 13th of all days! :eek:

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

Do you need 50 cruises to know enough? What about one on the Achille Lauro? What about watching Titanic "eleventy" times?

 

Does that make you Diamond shipwreck preferred?

 

Laughing...

 

It does seem ironic though that she is telling someone else how Cruise Critic works when some of us have been here for years and years. My DH has been here since the beginning so we have seen a lot.

[MorganMars]

Something that, IMHO, needs to be considered before blaming crew members for not being prepared, is that the passengers panic may have contributed heavily to the chaotic situation. Also, since the majority of the passengers were Italian, it is conceivable that they may have been thinking, "Just get me off of this sinking ship and I can find my own way home!" Not a criticism, just human nature. If I were vacationing at Disney World and a hurricane hit, it would be much easier for me to cope than it would be for a visitor from Europe, since I only live a couple of hours away.

 

I've seen complaints that those operating the life boats circled instead of going straight to the docks, but perhaps that was done intentionally due to available dock space or crowd control.

 

Without expounding on all the instances that have been reported, I am just hoping that people can avoid judging at this early hour. There is so much that we don't know and, remembering that even the BBC initially reported that the ship had left Savona headed for Rome when the accident first occurred, I would be sceptical of the accuracy of media reports, especially regarding fine details.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

 

One thing to keep in mind Julie, is that cruise ship crews are on constant rotation. People come and go all the time. They come from other ships, they come from being home after contract, and new people come. On any cruise ship in any line you have this rotation.

 

There is, or should be, constant training with crews - regardless of where the ship is registered, any of the major cruise lines take this very seriously. I would not venture to speak for Costa, but there is a phenomena occurring in the industry at the moment, partly due to the increase in these huge mega ships, but there is such a demand for cruise ship staff that many of the staffing agencies can't keep up and experienced crew is getting thinner and thinner throughout the cruise lines as more and bigger ships are introduced.

 

In my opinion, and it is just opinion, it is highly possible that the ratio of experienced crew to new crew, to crew that has only been on board for a month or so is getting stretched to the point where an emergency of this magnitude produced problems.

 

One report I heard on German TV, was that a large portion of the staff could not speak Italian, German or French (just their own language and English) and that also hindered some of the communication. That is media speculation and the speculation of one of the interviewed Germans. I was not there.

[5326jan]

Oh Gawd, Absolutely overwhelmed with this topic, all the theories, all the experts...scottie beam me up:D

 

I know! I hope we finally do hear what really happened, but all we know now are snippets of rumors, stories of traumatized passengers, speculation of rescuers, and sensationalizing of the media. I want to hear the facts, once the black box has been analyzed, bridge crew interviewed and navigational equipment tested.

 

There are a few dozen people on this thread. Most are extremely rational and intelligent, but everyone with an opinion and point of view based on their own experience. Multiply this group by a hundred and try to figure out how to systematically get all to agree on how to abandon a ship that was sinking/capsizing and you get an idea of what it must have been like on the ship that night....... incredibly frustrating for everyone.

[ObscureAllure]

A week and a half ago, a buss boy on the Conquest who told me he started only 2 months before told me that he made $1200 take home every two weeks for a 50hr work week, and didn't have to pay for room/board or food while on board the ship... I'm not sure where you heard they are making only "a few thousand dollars" a year but if my math adds up correctly, that's a decent wage for a buss boy. Hell, the buss boys here in New Orleans don't make half that and still have to pay for their own room/food.

 

 

:eek::eek:;)

[Activated95b]

I don't think the Italian EMS system is to blame. On a normal embarkation day, it usually takes 30 check in agents 5 hours to get everyone checked in. That's through a nice computerized terminal.

 

This was an island of about 1100 residents that had a cruise ship basically crash land on their doorstep at midnight. Life boats were arriving at shore, at night. People were jumping off the ship and swimming ashore.

 

Not like getting out of a taxi, handing your bags to the porter, and walking inside with your cruise documents in hand.

 

It is not the small town that I would expect to have prepared for an event like this but the regional authorities. One of the primary jobs of your EOC people is to plan for potential emergencies. When an emergency hits you grab the plan that most closely fits the current situation and begin working it and making the necessary modifications 'in stride.' In that area of the world I would expect them to have plans for responding to maritime disasters. And one of the basic rules is that positive control is maintained of all refugees. The people from the ship should have been taken from the island to a refugee collection center, processed and only then given transportation out of the area. In addition the EOC should have had lists of all emergency assets availible in the area and their capabilities.

 

The next issue I saw in the news reports is that emergency personnel and volunteers were allowed to 'self dispatch' to the site of the emergency. As a result the people trying to manage the situation did not know who was on site, what their capabilities were, and what they were doing. And to make things worse - they lost accountability of the rescue personnel as well. If a boat responding to the accident itself had an accident and was unable to communicate their situation - nobody would know they were missing for up to several days.

 

In the US we have developed what is known as the 'Incident Command System' and these are the 'lessons learned' from past incidents that have been integrated into US disaster-response doctrine.

 

BTW - want to make a guess as to what I am studying for my Master's degree?

[CruiseBoyzGermany]

I know that each cruise line has customer service issues, but I've seen too many instances where this company does the absolute bare minimum (if anything at all) to help out its customers in awful situtations. This statement does NOT reflect on the crew by the way, I'm talking about their corporate office.

 

Again, I point to how Carnival handled the fire. They took extraordinary measures for both their passengers and their crew. There is video of the company heads thanking their staff that brings a tear to my eye and proud to sail with them. I wrote them as such and booked a cruise with them as a result.

 

Just because Costa is in the Carnival umbrella does not mean their top brass will react the same way as CCL did. Sad for the passengers because those interviewed on TV here in Germany are NOT impressed and are being very public about how badly they were treated once getting to land.

[ObscureAllure]

I know! I hope we finally do hear what really happened, but all we know now are snippets of rumors, stories of traumatized passengers, speculation of rescuers, and sensationalizing of the media. I want to hear the facts, once the black box has been analyzed, bridge crew interviewed and navigational equipment tested.

 

There are a few dozen people on this thread. Most are extremely rational and intelligent, but everyone with an opinion and point of view based on their own experience. Multiply this group by a hundred and try to figure out how to systematically get all to agree on how to abandon a ship that was sinking/capsizing and you get an idea of what it must have been like on the ship that night....... incredibly frustrating for everyone.

 

 

Does anyone have any idea how long this takes? I know it's computerized, but surely it's a vast amount of information that can't be instantly presented. Does anyone have any idea on a timeline for this?

[Chawoobie]

The ship appears to have hit the rocks on the Port side and listed that way initially but it capsized on the Starboard side.

 

Is that impression correct and if so, why would that happen?:confused:

 

My guess is that since the Captain tried to get it closer to shore to facilitate abandoning, the ground slopes up toward the shoreline, so as the ship got closer to shore the starboard side hit the ground first and it caused the ship to heel over to the right.

[ObscureAllure]

The US embassy reports from before that 126 out of 126 Americans have been accounted for are apparently wrong.

 

Sadly, 118 of 120 are accounted for, the remaining two a couple from Minn.: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57359479/minn-couple-among-cruise-ship-missing/

 

:(

[jcl410]

He has never once said that. YOU said that and I did read back, every page.

 

"I know the chances of what has happened here is rather slim, but you could rest assured that a US flagged vessel would not have had this accident in the first place, and if it did, there would be an orderly abandon ship, conducted at the highest professional standards. "

 

That is the highly controversial last sentence of his post, which if you had at any point read it honestly, was pointing out that many lines fly under foreign flags of convenience. ....

 

Just to add my 2 cents worth to tie up some loose ends.... The "Flag of Convenience" argument doesn't mean anything in our *civil* discussion about the Costa Concordia.

 

She is registered in Italy. Which is NOT an FOC.

 

Panama is an FOC, which is why I'm not expecting too much to come from the Panamanian report on the Carnival Splendor accident. (I hope i'm wrong though!)

 

Aloha,

 

John