Costa Concordia SINKING

[HelloHelloHola]

This is pretty much the theory developed in the gCaptain's video, no?

 

I have no knowledge of handling large ships. Therefore, excuse the stupid question. I followed g'captains explanation. I just have a question in regard to his mentioning of the bow thruster. If the bow thruster was indeed used. Would that make the ship turn in a circle? How would the bow thruster propul the ship to rest near the shore?

[NormanW]

I have learned a lot on this forum, as I have never been on a cruise ship. One item of interest to me that I picked up from JJSMaine's post of the gCaptain's narration was the use of thrusters to assist in the crippled ship's final "controlled" turn. All ships that I have served on did not have thrusters and our top side emergency generator was typically around the size of a 8V92 Detroit Diesel, which could produce < 250 Kw for emergency lights, rudder, and nav electronics (which also have battery back-up). Speak up if you know this, but I would assume a single thruster for a ship this size would be at least a 500 hp electric motor. This one thruster alone would require a emergency generator of over twice the size I had, plus you have a lot more lighting and other systems.

 

What is the size of the emergency generator aboard a cruise ship such as this one?

 

I'd say in the 750-1500 kW range for backup genny.

Not enough for even one bow thruster.

Those bow thrusters are no less than 3MW EACH! They need a TON of power.

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[CruiseAdict218]

I'm curious, after the transfered everyone to the island what happened to the lifeboats? In pictures you can see some being towed away?

[glrounds]

In the most recent posts ( pst 8-10pages) I have seen 2 different course tracks posted. One off shore of the two smaller rock islands and one between the 2 "rock" islands, it is confusing.

 

On Panic:

You can only predict that it will happen, not who among the officers or crew will be affected. Among the passengers you can count on a percentage panicking every time.

The crew should be (is) trained to a higher level than the passengers in order to control the eventual panic that will occur.

There is no way to simulate a real ship sinking, more boat drills might help the crew but likely not for the passengers.

The capt. Panicked this time, he might not have in the past or might not in the future. The future does not matter for this Capt., this situation but that is how panic works.

The best thing passengers can do it to think before "stuff" happens, What will I do, Where will I go, What can I keep in my pockets that might help. That"s about it. You can't count on being able to get back to your cabin, what you have in your pockets or purse are all you will likely ever have in a real Emergency. Panic Will Happen, if not to you, to someone close by. As has been said a small Flashlight will help so will a small Swiss Army knife. Light for light ( waterproof is nice) and perhaps you can pop a lock with the knife blade if needed. OR

you could cut a dangling nylon strap that people are tripping on OR cut the bread and cheese you brought with you as you left the dinning room. A credit card, Ships card, a bit of cash, ID from home as Minimum. All of these Wallet/Purse items are likely already waterproof, if not they need to be made waterproof.

You do not need to pack a shipboard survival kit but you will find that having these few items will help in many daily activities as well as aid in a survival situation should one Ever occur.

 

LOL . . . In heavy heavy seas crossing the mouth of the Sea of Cortez from the mainland to the Baja peninsula, I have seen fully clothed passengers WITH LIFE JACKETS ON, sitting at a table in the Aft Lido bar, slamming down Jack one drink after another. Just in case. :D

 

(talk about being prepared ! ! )

 

[deckofficer]

I'd say in the 750-1500 kW range for backup genny.

Not enough for even one bow thruster.

Those bow thrusters are no less than 3MW EACH! They need a TON of power.

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

 

Thanks Norman, mine was a guess at 500 hp (373 Kw). If 3Mw, then did the captain have available power from the top side gen set if not asking for full thruster output?

[AWorldCruise4Me]

UNFORTUNATELY, my normal Holland America Board has not been quite as thoughtful in their considerations of who should be placed (get into) the lifeboats first.... Here is the link to the thread I am speaking of "Women and Children Still First?" http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1549794

 

Granted, I have not read the thread in the last 3 days as I was just so disgusted by quite a few of the posters comments, so some of the more obnoxious (in my reading of them) posts might have been removed....I would hope so... But there were a number of fellow Cruise Critic Members who had/have the "I GO FIRST, YOU FEND FOR YOURSELF attitude":(

 

Joanie

 

Joanie,

I had to stop reading the one on this board for the same reason. Apparently people feel they will panic and insist on going first (the heck with everyone else) so that is their thought out plan in advance. They even expect crew to help them while they are thoughtless of everyone around them.

 

They justify it by saying everyone would do it. I can't see how they can possibly believe this when it is clear that there are many people who help others in emergency situations. Both crew and fellow passengers.

[IRL_Joanie]

This article is knowingly full of non truths but is a bit of comedic relief in light of how most people feel right now.

 

Please keep in mind that the Journalist is saying this is jest. But can't you just picture sitting in an audience watching such an opera??

 

http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/01/19/the-costa-concordia-shipwreck-as-an-italian-opera/?utm_source=_BPGb$NB8fkfi9l&utm_content=ml20&utm_medium=email

 

Joanie

[NormanW]

Thanks Norman, mine was a guess at 500 hp (373 Kw). If 3Mw, then did the captain have available power from the top side gen set?

 

Without VDR data it's just a shot in the dark to try to figure out what happened at this point. If the main 10.6kV bus is dead it's hard to run BIG loads. Witness Carnival Splendor back in 2010.

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

[Cuizer2]

I did, Cruizer2, which is why I have asked to to take one more look when you get home tonight at the 2011 version of both the Concordia and Splendor.

 

Thanks,

 

Rick

 

Will do.

[glrounds]

I have no knowledge of handling large ships. Therefore, excuse the stupid question. I followed g'captains explanation. I just have a question in regard to his mentioning of the bow thruster. If the bow thruster was indeed used. Would that make the ship turn in a circle? How would the bow thruster propul the ship to rest near the shore?

 

I only have knowledge of very small craft, but I "gleaned" from that gcaptain explanation that turning the ship horizontal to the incoming sea and onshore wind. The forces of nature brought her into the position she ended in (luckily).

 

With all due respect for those souls that perished in this event, I think we can all agree on the incredibly horrific event this would have become had the CONCORDIA settled in deeper waters further from the shore.:o

 

[Cuizer2]

I have no knowledge of handling large ships. Therefore, excuse the stupid question. I followed g'captains explanation. I just have a question in regard to his mentioning of the bow thruster. If the bow thruster was indeed used. Would that make the ship turn in a circle? How would the bow thruster propul the ship to rest near the shore?

 

The bow thruster by itself would turn the ship in a circle. However, when combined with the stern thrusters it could move the ship sideways.

[shipfriend_max]

Not sure if this has been posted before but here is an interesting graphic on the salvaging of the CC - click to enlarge:

http://nationalpostnews.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/fo0118_concordiasalvage.jpg

 

Very interesting - thanks!!! :):):):)

Than let's hope that everything goes right!

[glrounds]

The bow thruster by itself would turn the ship in a circle. However, when combined with the stern thrusters it could move the ship sideways.

 

Excellent explanation, Cuizer.:)

 

[HelloHelloHola]

I only have knowledge of very small craft, but I "gleaned" from that gcaptain explanation that turning the ship horizontal to the incoming sea and onshore wind. The forces of nature brought her into the position she ended in (luckily).

 

With all due respect for those souls that perished in this event, I think we can all agree on the incredibly horrific event this would have become had the CONCORDIA settled in deeper waters further from the shore.:o

 

 

Thanks, Agreed, I put myself in the passengers' position many times over this past few days. I honestly think I would have most likely swam ashore, given the close distance and the barely tolerable water temperature. Of course, this is just me thinking while lying in bed. It has no value whatsoever.

[King of Cool]

Our opposition leader has been hammered in the press - but mainly by the government - for making a crack on the disaster – when being interviewed on Triple M radio, Tony Abbot was asked a tongue-in-cheek question about the captain of the stricken liner.

 

The presenter said: “The captain of the Costa Concordia wants to know if you need any help with your boat policy?” (unlawful boat arrivals with asylum seekers)

Abbott replied: “That was one boat that did get stopped,” to laughter in the studio.

 

So I would like to first make it VERY, VERY clear that I am aware of the dreadful consequences to all those that have suffered and are now suffering as a result of this tragedy. But I believe that taken in the right spirit, humour is good for the soul, even in the most dreadful situations. In my opinion you can still have sympathy AND humour.

 

Having cleared that little matter up, I can offer 2 suggestions for T Shirts, both of them already on sale. The first for the passengers and the second for the captain.

 

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/product/15002059/view/1/type/png/width/378/height/378/light-blue-drunken-sailor-t-shirts.png

 

http://www.triads.co.uk/images/products/zoom/1249574196-81005100.jpg

 

(the bars do not represent sand bars)

[Vampire Parrot]

I'd say in the 750-1500 kW range for backup genny.

Not enough for even one bow thruster.

Those bow thrusters are no less than 3MW EACH! They need a TON of power.

 

I'm not familiar with Costa Concordia, but on The Arcadia, a Vista class modern ship of about 87,000 tons, the Emergency Diesel Generator (EDG) provides up to 1.2MW to the 690V emergency switchboard.

 

Arcadia's three bow thrusters require 1.9MW each, and are powered from the 11kV bus.

 

There isn't a 690V to 11kV transformer, so I can't see how the EDG can provide power to the bow thrusters on Arcadia - and you wouldn't want to try doing so because all that would happen is that the EDG breaker would trip. I would guess (and it is a guess) that Costa Condordia's emergency electical system is configured in a similar manner.

 

VP

[deckofficer]

I'm not familiar with Costa Concordia, but on The Arcadia, a Vista class modern ship of about 87,000 tons, the Emergency Diesel Generator (EDG) provides up to 1.2MW to the 690V emergency switchboard.

 

Arcadia's three bow thrusters require 1.9MW each, and are powered from the 11kV bus.

 

There isn't a 690V to 11kV transformer, so I can't see how the EDG can provide power to the bow thrusters on Arcadia - and you wouldn't want to try doing so because all that would happen is that the EDG breaker would trip. I would guess (and it is a guess) that Costa Condordia's emergency electical system is configured in a similar manner.

 

VP

 

Thanks, that is what I thought. I did like gcaptain's narration, but when he mentioned use of thrusters I thought "from what power source?".

[Silverado6x6]

On the boat that I was both the deck officer and the engineer it was 112' long, flat bottom with a very shallow V, had dual paddleweels that were totally independent, each was hydraulically driven from a sunstrand pump direct coupled to a 350 Cummins engine, one for port and starboard, we could counter rotate with them.

 

But we also had a transverse tube below the waterline up in the bow that had a hydraulic driven thruster unit, it was reversible. Combined with the paddles the captain had pretty good control of the vessel in a very tight turning basin.

 

For Deckofficer if you have been to Tahoe years ago the Tahoe Queen was moored at the Ski Run Marina, though last i heard its still afloat they moved more to the SW part of the lake, there was another sternwheeler that ran up at the SE part of the lake on the Nevada side, I actually worked for them for two weeks (it was really a staged event to spy on them;)) and around 1993 I think they built a bigger boat and then had the best one on the lake, I moved to Alaska in 1992.

 

But getting back to the boat and this thread....one day as we were entering the channel some very high winds caught us totally on the beam, and this boat has totally flat sides, ran us aground, I spent the night on it pumping ballast tanks. It was the winds that took control of the boat, I cannot even guess what the wind effects are upon a vessel the size of the Concordia, but perhaps the captain used it to save the ship, he had almost no power I am thinking by then.

 

Frankly I wish more people would give credit to where its due and that was the seamanship of getting a vessel of this size mortally wounded, its belly ripped out, probably lost all its main power and yet the captain managed to get this monster of a ship to shore before it sank stern first.

 

Myself I have to look at this before what the mainstream media is trying to pin on him and a lot of people want to blame him, but he did his job after his mistake. Until we get the official transcripts of every single minute I am just staying a bit neutral, I can blame him possibly and eventually but not just yet. Too much of a lynch mob mentality going on.

[glrounds]

Thanks, Agreed, I put myself in the passengers' position many times over this past few days. I honestly think I would have most likely swam ashore, given the close distance and the barely tolerable water temperature. Of course, this is just me thinking while lying in bed. It has no value whatsoever.

 

I quite agree.:)

 

Being a strong swimmer, I think I would have done the same. The thought of the CONCORDIA suddenly shifting and turning over and leaving me "trapped" 50-80 feet below the surface is much less inviting than swimming that short distance, even in very cold water.;)

 

[shipfriend_max]

Here's The Tee Shirt I Want

 

 

 

 

"Hi There Sailor"

 

What a hell with this person! :mad:

The Metallica track "St. Anger" I dedicate to her!

If she were on the bridge, she would have also a part of guilt, because to these situations always belong two persons!

We have to hope that they an gegin tomorrow with the outpumping of the fuel and than going on successfully...

[islandmandan]

Our opposition leader has been hammered in the press - but mainly by the government - for making a crack on the disaster – when being interviewed on Triple M radio, Tony Abbot was asked a tongue-in-cheek question about the captain of the stricken liner.

 

The presenter said: “The captain of the Costa Concordia wants to know if you need any help with your boat policy?” (unlawful boat arrivals with asylum seekers)

Abbott replied: “That was one boat that did get stopped,” to laughter in the studio.

 

So I would like to first make it VERY, VERY clear that I am aware of the dreadful consequences to all those that have suffered and are now suffering as a result of this tragedy. But I believe that taken in the right spirit, humour is good for the soul, even in the most dreadful situations. In my opinion you can still have sympathy AND humour.

 

Having cleared that little matter up, I can offer 2 suggestions for T Shirts, both of them already on sale. The first for the passengers and the second for the captain.

 

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/product/15002059/view/1/type/png/width/378/height/378/light-blue-drunken-sailor-t-shirts.png

 

http://www.triads.co.uk/images/products/zoom/1249574196-81005100.jpg

 

(the bars do not represent sand bars)

Hey King of Cool, how about leaving politics out of this discussion!

[Rancher Dave]

Thanks, Agreed, I put myself in the passengers' position many times over this past few days. I honestly think I would have most likely swam ashore, given the close distance and the barely tolerable water temperature. Of course, this is just me thinking while lying in bed. It has no value whatsoever.

 

I had that same thought until I rethought how much would I know about the water temperature before jumping in. I suppose if I knew the temp wasn't just in the upper 30sF then maybe I'd have swam...I may just as well have launched a rubber life raft if it seemed dire enough to do so.

[Milaandra]

LOL . . . In heavy heavy seas crossing the mouth of the Sea of Cortez from the mainland to the Baja peninsula, I have seen fully clothed passengers WITH LIFE JACKETS ON, sitting at a table in the Aft Lido bar, slamming down Jack one drink after another. Just in case. :D

 

(talk about being prepared ! ! )

 

 

LOL! If I saw others doing it I might just join them!

[deckofficer]

On the boat that I was both the deck officer and the engineer it was 112' long, flat bottom with a very shallow V, had dual paddleweels that were totally independent, each was hydraulically driven from a sunstrand pump direct coupled to a 350 Cummins engine, one for port and starboard, we could counter rotate with them.

 

But we also had a transverse tube below the waterline up in the bow that had a hydraulic driven thruster unit, it was reversible. Combined with the paddles the captain had pretty good control of the vessel in a very tight turning basin.

 

For Deckofficer if you have been to Tahoe years ago the Tahoe Queen was moored at the Ski Run Marina, though last i heard its still afloat they moved more to the SW part of the lake, there was another sternwheeler that ran up at the SE part of the lake on the Nevada side, I actually worked for them for two weeks (it was really a staged event to spy on them;)) and around 1993 I think they built a bigger boat and then had the best one on the lake, I moved to Alaska in 1992.

 

But getting back to the boat and this thread....one day as we were entering the channel some very high winds caught us totally on the beam, and this boat has totally flat sides, ran us aground, I spent the night on it pumping ballast tanks. It was the winds that took control of the boat, I cannot even guess what the wind effects are upon a vessel the size of the Concordia, but perhaps the captain used it to save the ship, he had almost no power I am thinking by then.

 

Frankly I wish more people would give credit to where its due and that was the seamanship of getting a vessel of this size mortally wounded, its belly ripped out, probably lost all its main power and yet the captain managed to get this monster of a ship to shore before it sank stern first.

 

Myself I have to look at this before what the mainstream media is trying to pin on him and a lot of people want to blame him, but he did his job after his mistake. Until we get the official transcripts of every single minute I am just staying a bit neutral, I can blame him possibly and eventually but not just yet. Too much of a lynch mob mentality going on.

 

Well said, thanks for answering my question about your engines many posts ago. The on-topic discussion/speculation that we are having now concerns if thrusters were even available with the limited electrical power available from the top side emergency generator and if the output voltage (not just wattage) was even the right voltage for that bus. It is for the hydraulic pumps for the rudder, but the massive load that a thruster represents is the question. It is in the official transcripts that someone shared here, that the captain was patting himself on the back for his seamanship after the fact, but I suspect it was only the speed reducing turn that was timed properly that allowed wind and current to push the vessel to its final resting spot.

[Highlander0108]

I'd say in the 750-1500 kW range for backup genny.

Not enough for even one bow thruster.

Those bow thrusters are no less than 3MW EACH! They need a TON of power.

 

Cheers,

 

Norman

 

To use the thrusters then, the second engine room must have been operational, at least for a period of time, you think? I am wondering would it have been better if the ship just dropped anchor at the point where the turn was made. If they had done that, they still were not too far from shore and the ship might not have developed the list to starboard? Just a thought.