Children, Women and Men Last - Not sure this is the best order of abandoning ship

[CruiserGuyWPB]

What a stupid comment. The tradition of women first off a ship has to do with parenting and populating the human race.

In case you haven't noticed, there are already 7 billion people on the planet, there is no shortage to populate more.

[Sutho]

Women and children first is NOT maritime law and it is a well known fact that the idea KILLS and endangers life. No family should be forced to seperate and putting women and children in a lifeboat together worsens their chances of survival.

 

Lifeboat embarkation is done by muster station and in a an ideal situation you turn up in your group and all board the boat together keeping families together. That way people are safe, worry free and with men and women and children together there is a better fighting chance that they will survive the ordeal together.

[Aus Traveller]

Women and children first is NOT maritime law and it is a well known fact that the idea KILLS and endangers life. No family should be forced to seperate and putting women and children in a lifeboat together worsens their chances of survival.

 

Lifeboat embarkation is done by muster station and in a an ideal situation you turn up in your group and all board the boat together keeping families together. That way people are safe, worry free and with men and women and children together there is a better fighting chance that they will survive the ordeal together.

That is totally logical. I would hate to have my family separated.

[CruiserGuyWPB]

From all my years of lurking on here.... I rarely ever agree with Ducklight, or Sutho ( and i am sorry of i spelled it wrong) but there is truth there.... isnt the whole reason that the planet earth surveys is survival of the fittest????? When is a 90 year old man in a wheelchair on oxygen more fit than a 30 year old man with a wife and three kids????? One has 4-10 years to live and the other has 60 years.......

 

I am a gay man, so why is my life not as important as a single 80 year old woman that will never have kids or a new husband in her life? ...... or a single woman that is 3o years old that is infertile ???? how does anyone tell that on deck of a ship? there are so man variables to tell on here.... so what is the right answer?

[Girl_from_Ipanema]

It isn't the breeders...it's the children. Frightened, vulnerable and with all the potential for a long and productive life. And when possible, children will thrive better with a parent.

 

Isn't everyone in that situation frightened and vulnerable? I'm in my 30's and also have the potential for a long and productive life.

 

On an emotional level, I understand the impulse to protect children, but I don't put their "value" above that of an adult. Nor do I place the "value" of women above that of men.

 

I'm already punished on my income tax for not having children, now I should be punished on a sinking ship as well?

[Milaandra]

Do you remember US Airways flight 1549? Pan Am Flight 526A?

 

I just looked them up, but I don't understand the significance. Is it because they both managed a safe water landing? (Creepy that they all died on the Pan Am flight because they wouldn't leave the plane)

 

this is known: "1.2 million people around the world die by drowning every year, that is more than two persons per minute." http://www.ilsf.org/drowning/facts Learning to swim is always a good idea; the more survival skills you have, the better your chances.

 

Interesting article! I thought it was interesting that more men than women drown and that they suggested it was due to overconfidence. Many of the drowning deaths were caused by water sports and small boating accidents (no lifejacket) and one-quarter of the drowning deaths were swimmers. The largest group of accidental drowning victims are toddlers. That gives me nightmares. I guess I have 11 years before I fall into that 60+ group with health issues and fewer non-swimmers.

 

I wish I could swim...I miss out on a lot of activities that many people find highly enjoyable. I just don't think cruising is in the same boat (pun fully intended) as white water rafting...I don't think I'm taking huge risks by cruising. After all, if I fall off the ship, it's the fall that will kill me, just the same as if I fell off the balcony in a high rise hotel. If there is a disaster, well, that's where the airplane analogy comes in...you are willing to take the chance in an airplane even though you don't have the skills to take your survival into your own hands. No one questions that, or makes negative comments because you didn't learn to fly a commercial aircraft. You just take your chances and hope the airline personnel can save you in an emergency. Me too!

 

Based on the information we have about the Concordia victims, we have no indication that any of them died because they couldn't swim. Most of the victims found were wearing their lifejackets, which should have made them float, right? We know at least one man died because he thought he could swim to shore without a lifejacket. (I'm not criticising, we don't know the circumstances as to why he felt he and his wife needed to jump)

 

Milaandra...sorry you feel like we are making you a victim, casting aspersions or insulting you as you stated, that was not my intention. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

I don't mind debating...I just thought that some of the comments were a bit personal and related to my intelligence and character. I'm pleased to hear that wasn't intentional! :)

[ducklite]

Do you remember US Airways flight 1549? Pan Am Flight 526A?

 

No one on the US flight had to swim. The few people who did, did so only because they wanted to get away from the plane fearing explosion.

 

All I'm saying is weather your opinion is women & kids first, elderly first or you want to be the chivalrous man/woman who stays behind this is known: "1.2 million people around the world die by drowning every year, that is more than two persons per minute." http://www.ilsf.org/drowning/facts Learning to swim is always a good idea; the more survival skills you have, the better your chances.

 

Milaandra...sorry you feel like we are making you a victim, casting aspersions or insulting you as you stated, that was not my intention. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

Using your logic, we should all know how to drive a bus or pilot a plane, because you never know when the driver might have a medical emergency that requires you to take over and drive to safety or land the equipment.

 

I'd also like to point out that not everyone had a life jacket, and in 50 degree water, even a strong swimmer might not make it to shore under those conditions.

 

If people want to learn to swim, let them. If they don't, then I don't see where it's your business to berate them over it.

[Milaandra]

When is a 90 year old man in a wheelchair on oxygen more fit than a 30 year old man with a wife and three kids?????

 

Yes, but doesn't the 30 year old man have a better chance of climbing down a rope ladder onto an inflatable raft?

 

Yeah, okay, if we're talking end of the world stuff, and only 1,000 seats to safety...the old folk are staying behind! So am I...I don't have any unique skills, I'm not very athletic and my ovaries won't be viable for much longer so I'm not much of a specimen for the brave new world.

 

But in a situation of limited lifeboats and more strenous ways off the ship, then yeah, 90 year old in the wheelchair is definitely a goner if he can't get on a lifeboat. 30 year old family guy still has a good chance of survival through other methods.

[LINGBER]

We cruise frequently with our children and the first thing I did after learning of this tradgedy was to sit them down and discuss again with them what we would do in the event of an abandon ship. Now they get that this can be serious.This is my worst nightmare as a parent with teenagers who want their freedom to explore the ship with friends and do their own thing.

 

I would not leave the ship without my family. Period. If we were seperated and they put my kids on a lifeboat without my knowledge, I would end up going down with the ship while searching every inch possible to find them. I would not leave without my husband to save myself.

[Sutho]

We cruise frequently with our children and the first thing I did after learning of this tradgedy was to sit them down and discuss again with them what we would do in the event of an abandon ship. Now they get that this can be serious.This is my worst nightmare as a parent with teenagers who want their freedom to explore the ship with friends and do their own thing.

 

I would not leave the ship without my family. Period. If we were seperated and they put my kids on a lifeboat without my knowledge, I would end up going down with the ship while searching every inch possible to find them. I would not leave without my husband to save myself.

 

Thats exactly how allot of people feel. Seperating childrend and husbands and wives only distresses them and forces them to take drastic action. With enough lifeboats to cover everone and many more there is not reason why families cant dismebark together.

 

I will go a little further and say the young fit singles should also be able to move quickly into a lifeboat in a line with the families as the quicker the more able bodied people that get off the ship then the crew have more time on their hands to disembark the frail and incapacitated.

 

Having able bodied people in the lifeboat gives more chances of survival to others who have to jump as there will be other passengers strong enough to drag others into boats from the sea as well as look after other passengers.

 

It has been widely reported lately that there is no law that says women and children first. People survive better when they are with their loved ones. Imagine the pain and emotional distress a child would go through watching their parents die or living life without parents. Young fit people in their 20's + still have a whole life ahead of them too. Only the professionally trained crew can help the people that cant help themselves. Leaving parents to care for their children frees up crew for more needing people.

[nellydean]

Isn't everyone in that situation frightened and vulnerable? I'm in my 30's and also have the potential for a long and productive life.

 

On an emotional level, I understand the impulse to protect children, but I don't put their "value" above that of an adult. Nor do I place the "value" of women above that of men.

 

I'm already punished on my income tax for not having children, now I should be punished on a sinking ship as well?

 

I was going to say that only someone who doesn't have children could say that, and I was right :rolleyes:

[tinybabynurse]

TBN Hubby here

 

We are 'diamond', 'elite', etc., and we have attended many muster drills as I'm certain most of the posters here have.

 

I'm having a hard time remembering any discussion at those drills of "women and children first". As a matter of fact, I would bet a bundle that this is NOT discussed. Anyone? If this is truly the policy/law, one would think there would be some mention of it at the drill.

 

Can't imagine how NOT drilling on this and THEN trying to sort people out at a muster station in a real emergency -- separating families -- could possibly lead to an orderly evacuation. All this when folks are pushing forward trying to board lifeboats. Just how are those rejected for loading supposed to 'swim upstream'?

 

Having said that, I think the posts and first-hand accounts of SOME of the passengers actions and the Senior Crew's abandonment of their posts are truly deplorable.

[luvwater]

I was going to say that only someone who doesn't have children could say that, and I was right :rolleyes:

 

Having children does not make you a better person! There are plenty of mothers out there that are horrible mothers. So there life is more valuable then hers? There are some women out there that just can’t have kids. Just because you have kids does not make you superior. It is the parent’s job to protect their children not mine.

 

I do hope that none of us are even in that situation. If so, PLEASE just follow directions which are go to your station and wait your turn. I would never sacrifice my life … I have people at home that would live heartbroken and that rely on me. In the case there is not enough seats, I would never want anyone to give up their seat for me … I could not live with the guilt. Knowing that I did everything possible to get home for my family … I could live with that.

[Milaandra]

I was going to say that only someone who doesn't have children could say that, and I was right :rolleyes:

 

Now, now! Don't go being prejudiced against people who choose not to reproduce! We don't all kick puppies, you know. And if everyone who did have children was automatically a better person, there would be no parental child abuse or neglect, would there?

[cruisingreena]

the women and children first, totally broke my heart, i cant imagine ripping families apart to do this, families with children first. do not rip families apart, that is terrible and this all seems like the way they evacauted the Titanic, sadly we havent come very far since then..i would never go if my husband couldnt go with me. that's awful, no way would i leave him behind to go down with the ship if that was the only option. geez..makes me sad to think that may be the case one day. :( what if there was no shore the men could swim to and all the men died...geez. that's my personal opinion on this matter.

[VentureForth]

the women and children first, totally broke my heart, i cant imagine ripping families apart to do this, families with children first. do not rip families apart, that is terrible and this all seems like the way they evacauted the Titanic, sadly we havent come very far since then..i would never go if my husband couldnt go with me. that's awful, no way would i leave him behind to go down with the ship if that was the only option. geez..makes me sad to think that may be the case one day. :( what if there was no shore the men could swim to and all the men died...geez. that's my personal opinion on this matter.

I respect your opinion greatly. As a father of three - 19, 11 & 6, I hope I would never allow myself to be saved before others. I would have no problem sending my wife & kids to shore separate from me. I would assure them I would be fine, and if God has other plans, I would hope my family would be at peace.

[cruisingreena]

I respect your opinion greatly. As a father of three - 19, 11 & 6, I hope I would never allow myself to be saved before others. I would have no problem sending my wife & kids to shore separate from me. I would assure them I would be fine, and if God has other plans, I would hope my family would be at peace.

 

 

that makes me sad...I think families should be staying together, not separated. When I watched Titanic i thought 'how dated of them to do that' I would never imagine this would still happen in this day and age and when I cruise I never knew this is how they would handle it, I would be very sad to see this approach to evacuation. I would never seperate my family, no matter what, I would even give up my spot so a father could go with his family.

[cruisingreena]

that's why i guess first come first serve works, if you're old, weak, disabled and can't get to the life boat on time? tough noogie! maybe better luck next life.

wow...this actually made me laugh several times, i stand firm on families together, not men last but this did make me laugh

[Piemaster]

Do the people who believe children should be given priority over adults based on the fact they have a long life ahead of them believe that younger adults should be given priority over the elderly for the same reason?

[Milaandra]

Do the people who believe children should be given priority over adults based on the fact they have a long life ahead of them believe that younger adults should be given priority over the elderly for the same reason?

 

Well, if there were literally only a limited number of ways of the ship, I suppose so. I'd like to think I'd step out of the way in that case even though I'm not elderly, but I admit, I'm really afraid of death by drowning.

 

However, there are lots of ways off a ship. Once the lifeboats are gone, there are inflatable rafts, other volunteer craft and helicopter airlift. Those methods, however, may require a physically arduous struggle to another part of the ship, moving of debris, climbing down a rope or ladder, possibly even a short swim to get to a waiting boat.

 

So, my theory is, that if some of the lifeboats are unavailable, that those who are more physically capable should stand aside at first. Children are a little different in that they may actually be physically capable of shimmying down a rope and swimming to a liferaft, but they may not be emotionally capable.

 

I keep thinking about a story from the Andrea Doria in which a man, terrified for the safety of his little girl, threw her down to a waiting boat before climbing down himself. She later died of head injuries. If she had been placed in a lifeboat on the ship, taking the place of a capable adult, that adult would likely have managed the climb down to the boat with no problem. Then they both would have lived.

[tampabrat22]

I don't mind debating...I just thought that some of the comments were a bit personal and related to my intelligence and character. I'm pleased to hear that wasn't intentional! :)

 

Great, because it was never my intention.

 

Using your logic, we should all know how to drive a bus or pilot a plane, because you never know when the driver might have a medical emergency that requires you to take over and drive to safety or land the equipment.

 

I'd also like to point out that not everyone had a life jacket, and in 50 degree water, even a strong swimmer might not make it to shore under those conditions.

 

If people want to learn to swim, let them. If they don't, then I don't see where it's your business to berate them over it.

 

Again, just want to clarify that I did not intend to berate or insult anyone. Being that I work in a medical emergency field it just bothers me to see people who don't do everything they can to be prepared in an emergency situation. I know it would be impossible to be prepared for every situation, but the more you know the better. And yes, I can drive a bus and maybe flying lessons will be next on my list ;)