Children, Women and Men Last - Not sure this is the best order of abandoning ship

[skinslvr26]

As a Man who cant swim to read this and loves to crusie this scares the crap out of me. My wife can swim...But Me and my Son who is 2 can not... to thank id be last off bc im a man scares me. The thought of putting my son and wife on a life boat knowing i cant swim choaks me up as i type this. I hope we all never have to go through this.

 

 

 

God Bless those who lost family members..

[DMH15]

I think the important thing is to get people into the lifeboats and off the ship as quickly as possible. Trying to separate men and women, young and old, just as they are boarding is going to slow things down.

 

I think it's fair to make announcements saying, There are enough lifeboats for all, but for those who are strong and are willing to wait and allow others to board ahead of them--Thank you!--and please step aside so we can board people as quickly as possible.

 

Personally I don't have children, so I would like to think I would be willing to allow others to go ahead of me. But if I had a family, then I would want us to stay together and leave the ship as soon as possible.

 

This sounds reasonable.

 

I am a good swimmer, 54 yr old female, although a few lbs overweight, do 5ks and am active. I would rather a child or family went ahead. I travel with my 77 year old mother. Would want to stay with her. Would not surprise me if she chose to wait and deferred to families. We lost my dad 11 years ago. Although mom is active and independent we have talked and she is at peace as far as when her time comes. So, it would not surprise me if she suggested we wait a little while and let families go first.

[norcalal]

Modern cruise ships have lifeboat capacity equal to the number of passengers. I do believe that the pods and life rafts give another half as much.

 

I have paid close attention to the accounts of people actually involved in this and have come to some possible understanding.

 

They were told that it was going to be ok...the bridge alerted the crew that they were going to run the ship aground. No need for life boats

 

When people realized that they did need to get into life boats, they did not go to their assigned stations in an orderly manner. They rushed, pushed and shoved their way to board the first lifeboat they came to.

Not a pretty picture.

[AWorldCruise4Me]

“We just couldn’t believe it - especially the men, they were worse than the women.”

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/aussies-reveal-cruise-terror/story-e6frfq80-1226245416928#ixzz1jafHJsGi

 

Michelle, the real life survivor who posted on this forum is appalled at the men and women pushing her and her 12 yr old daughter out of the way so they could board the life boats. Appears the men were more aggressive about it.

[In Range]

Clearly, it's the captain first, then anyone next.:mad:

[tommyp48]

I'm a fit 63 year old man and I'm staying with the ship. Let the weaker ones board the lifeboats and get off. As long as my wife gets off I'll rest easy. I don't really care about me. A sinking ship is an adventure. Might be my last adventure but it will be a test to see if I can survive.

[Because123]

This is your personal list for priority boarding.. Why? Why do you choose to value human life in a hierarchical order? Who polices? Who enforces? How much precious time is lost? Get 'em off quick. Don't worry about who is more worthy. Does a doctor go before a convicted felon? A nurse before a carpenter? You just don't have the right to prioritize human life. Attempt to evacuate as many as possible as quickly and safely as possible.

 

 

From my perspective, it's not a matter of whose life is more valued, but rather who among the crowd is most likely to have the strength to survive if things get worse, and who is not. Generally speaking, males are stronger than females. Not always... but generally. While it's generally more efficient to take people as they come, it's also an act of human kindness to want those with lesser physical capability to not be left to their own devices.

 

A child left alone on a sinking ship is much less likely to find a way to survive than a 28 year old healthy male. I'd like to think such a male on Concordia would've let a child take his place.

[mn311601]

As far as I'm aware, women and children first is not a maritime law so for those appalled at the behavior of those trying to survive, I'm sorry but that's what happens.

 

The main thing in this instance is that had the captain not waited and ordered everyone to stand by their lifeboats when the accident first happened, the rushing and pushing wouldn't have been needed. That's what I was talking about, if you have 2-3 hours to evacuate everything is fine, women and children first. If you wait and wait until the water is rising and then tell everyone to evacuate, of course they are going to panic. Who wouldn't, everyone on this board would as well.

[popeduck]

I have thought at times what I would do in such a situation. If I were to act consistently with my world view, I would wait and insist that almost everyone board the lifeboat before me. I'm definitely not a "survival of the fittest" kind of guy. Definitely all children and women before me, with the exception of very athletic women who insisted that I go before them.

[tampabrat22]

I'm just shocked by how many of you (or your family members) don't know how to swim!!

 

When we started cruising a few years back the first thing I did was enroll my children in swimming lessons, and I feel comfortable knowing that everyone one of us is a strong swimmer. I know there are many factors to consider if we had to swim at sea and just because we are good swimmers doesn't mean we would survive...but why would you vacation around that much water and not know how to swim?

 

The ships have all those pool, every port is an island or on the coast, excursions to beaches and days spent out on the open water. For goodness sakes, please take swimming lessons and help your chances!

[KatetheWanderer]

I'm a fit 63 year old man and I'm staying with the ship. Let the weaker ones board the lifeboats and get off. As long as my wife gets off I'll rest easy. I don't really care about me. A sinking ship is an adventure. Might be my last adventure but it will be a test to see if I can survive.

 

All the men in my family are like you. I wouldn't want to be cruising with a guy who would get on before women, children and the disabled. I could never look at him the same way again.

 

But I don't see how you can enforce chivalry on the high seas in this day and age. The ships should make it clear in the muster drill the order of priority, if there is one. Ships can sink faster than lifeboats can fill-no matter how many lifeboats are available or how soon the evacuation order is given. Maybe it would be better to just let the most panicked of men get on first so things don't get as chaotic as they apparently did on the Concordia.

[Activated95b]

Here is some humor as to why somethines you want the 'big strong men' to go first:

http://www.schlockmercenary.com/2001-02-04

[Activated95b]

I think the important thing is to get people into the lifeboats and off the ship as quickly as possible. Trying to separate men and women, young and old, just as they are boarding is going to slow things down.

 

I think it's fair to make announcements saying, There are enough lifeboats for all, but for those who are strong and are willing to wait and allow others to board ahead of them--Thank you!--and please step aside so we can board people as quickly as possible.

 

Personally I don't have children, so I would like to think I would be willing to allow others to go ahead of me. But if I had a family, then I would want us to stay together and leave the ship as soon as possible.

 

I would make sure my family is on the lifeboat then step aside.

[gnocchi_mommy]

I think it should be people with obvious special needs and small children first, then everyone else... but I know my husband would physically throw me in a lifeboat and step back to allow any other women and children in before taking a seat. Some things are just very culturally engrained.

[gnocchi_mommy]

btw one interview I read said some of the young italian men were pushing their OWN WIVES back and taking spots on the lifeboats. This I just can not fathom.

[cruise kitty]

4000+ people and only a small fraction jumped overboard and swam. A small number are dead or missing. Most of the people on the ship made it off in the life boats, the rest lifted off by helicopters.

 

That means, even though some of the lifeboats were unusable due to the listing of the ship that there was plenty of room for most of the passengers and crew.

 

There is no need to fight over who goes first. Line up in an orderly fashion, keep parents and children together, and get into the lifeboat when it is your turn. Help elderly people who are alone and young children who can't find their parents. Help those who are upset and frozen in place from fear. Be human. It might be difficult when you are in danger but at least try.

 

As a female, I absolutely agree that my life is not any more important than my husband's life and while he does swim better than me, I would not want him to jump overboard. I would rather he wait with us and get on the lifeboat!

 

I haven't read this entire thread, but this pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter, except, I'm a really good swimmer :) ... In any dangerous situation strangers must be willing to help one another, otherwise, we may as well just be animals.

[Piemaster]

I absolutely agree with LemonPledge, the last thing you want to do in a state of emergency and panic is to start arbitrarily dictating which people have the right to lifeboat spaces over others.

 

The Children>Women>Men rule is a relic from a bygone age, a product of the same thinking that told us that women were not fit to perform most professions, coloured people were not fit to dine with whites and homosexuality was an abhorent sin. It should be resigned to the scrapheap along with the rest of this 19th century thinking.

 

I think I actually read somewhere that women (especially older women) were better swimmers than men on average, because it is often the form of exercise of choice for them as opposed to men who often prefer the gym or team sports. No idea if this is true, you can use dodgy statistics to prove anything, but it's food for thought...

[boltnut55]

I'm a fit 63 year old man and I'm staying with the ship. Let the weaker ones board the lifeboats and get off. As long as my wife gets off I'll rest easy. I don't really care about me. A sinking ship is an adventure. Might be my last adventure but it will be a test to see if I can survive.

:D That's the spirit!

I would make sure my family is on the lifeboat then step aside.

I think my DH would do the same. My daughter swims the best in our family, and my husband could do it if he can, but I'd drown for sure. I've taken swimming lessons as late as 2006 but just can't get the hang of it.

 

In reality, we all don't know what we'd do and let's hope we won't ever need to find out. We do have a cruise coming up in 3 months though...

[Canagirl]

Hopefully (and very likely) this is a situation that most cruisers will never have to face. When in the midst of an emergency situation, how someone thinks they might act may change once the adrenaline, panic and survival instinct kicks in.

 

Looking at a few of the amateur videos that have popped up from the Concordia, it was no doubt a terrifying situation with a lot of panic and hopefully none of us ever find ourselves in that situation to determine how we really would react.

 

I feel the most important thing is to get as many people off the ship as quickly as possible. To me, there is no justification for one person's life being more important or more worthy of saving than another life simply because of their gender. Yes, families should leave the ship together in my opinion, but to say families first also is not fair as the lives of childless people are no less worthy than those with children.

 

Strong swimmer or not, there would often be circumstances when the strongest swimmers could not survive long in the water due to the temperatures.

 

A quick evacuation, without moving certain people to the back of the line because of their gender, is what I feel is fair. I know I would not leave the ship without my husband.

[Milaandra]

...but why would you vacation around that much water and not know how to swim?

 

Ever go on an airplane? :D

[Red Mini Stapler]

btw one interview I read said some of the young italian men were pushing their OWN WIVES back and taking spots on the lifeboats. This I just can not fathom.

 

doesn't matter whether if it's a man or woman, that's f'ed up, pushing your own spouse away to take their spot?... wow. If my hubby did that, he better make sure I'd drown, otherwise i'd hunt his butt down!

 

I forgot to clear on one thing, when i said men get on the boat last, i don't mean by they wait for every last women/kids/elders/disabled people on the ship get on the life boat, but those within the muster station and ready to go, not the one who's not even close getting to the loading area. I've been in some places where people those can't even form orderly line to get on a bus or train, imagine those people panic, i'm pretty sure 'first come first serve' will literally become 'every man for himself' and pushing and knocking women/kids/elders/disabled out of the way so they could get to the life boat. heck, as we can see the example there, their own spouse aren't even safe, what makes you think they care about other strangers well being?

[ducklite]

From my perspective, it's not a matter of whose life is more valued, but rather who among the crowd is most likely to have the strength to survive if things get worse, and who is not. Generally speaking, males are stronger than females. Not always... but generally. While it's generally more efficient to take people as they come, it's also an act of human kindness to want those with lesser physical capability to not be left to their own devices.

 

A child left alone on a sinking ship is much less likely to find a way to survive than a 28 year old healthy male. I'd like to think such a male on Concordia would've let a child take his place.

 

In all honesty, a lot of kids in the 8-15 range would have a better chance at swimming safely to shore than their adult counterparts. Kids are overall in better shape and most of the ones I know in that age group are quite good swimmers, including in the ocean.

 

I travel almost weekly and meet with a variety of people in my line of work, and have to say that in my experience, over half of the adult males I encounter look like they are 6-9 months pregnant and the only thing they work out is their finger on the remote and elbow with the beer.

 

Just stating facts.

[ducklite]

I'm just shocked by how many of you (or your family members) don't know how to swim!!

 

When we started cruising a few years back the first thing I did was enroll my children in swimming lessons, and I feel comfortable knowing that everyone one of us is a strong swimmer. I know there are many factors to consider if we had to swim at sea and just because we are good swimmers doesn't mean we would survive...but why would you vacation around that much water and not know how to swim?

 

The ships have all those pool, every port is an island or on the coast, excursions to beaches and days spent out on the open water. For goodness sakes, please take swimming lessons and help your chances!

 

There's a difference between swimming and being a strong swimmer. There's also a difference between swimming in a pool and swimming in an ocean--especially an icy one. My husband and son can both swim, but neither is a strong swimmer. They are both in good shape, my husband runs marathons and my son does strength training, so it's not for being out of shape.

[cdamion]

In a perfect world, (or perfect cruise), there are enough life boats for passengers and crew, in fact there are extra. However, when a tragedy takes place, it is definitely not going to be a perfect world (cruise) anymore. If anyone took notice of the Costa tragedy, they would see the ship listed to the one side, then began to sink. Do you honestly believe the crew were able to use any of the lifeboats on that side of the ship? I have seen several of the videos, and read many of the articles. Not sure if the lifeboats on the one side of the ship were able to be used, but if not, then there is a great possibility, there would only be enough lifeboats for a little over half of the passengers and crew. To many people, it will come down to self-preservation, and that is when the panic mode will set in. As seen by some of the replies on this thread, we are not even in this situation, and the comments have escalated to "me first, and the heck with everyone else". Not a good situation to be in, but when tragedy strikes, this is what happens to some people, and hence, the people running and screaming, and many people getting trampled on and hurt. It is a shame this is how people act in a tragedy. Maybe if more people worked together, it would help avert the worst in a tragedy, and make for a better outcome.

 

All but 3 lifeboats launched. In addition to the lifeboats there are many life rafts that automatically inflate when they hit the water. Each side of the ship has enough lifeboats and life rafts to accommodate everybody.

 

One note though is that people said that many of the lifeboats were almost empty.

[cello56]

Not sure if this has been pointed out yet, but keep in mind that the Concordia sinking was a very unusual situation in that they were very close to land. Jumping off the ship and swimming was a viable option that it sounds like many people took. If this accident had taken place in deep water, then swimming would not have been an option. In fact the ship would likely have sunk completely very quickly. In this situation, there probably would not have been any time for helicopter rescue.

 

So now we are down to get on a lifeboat or die.

I don't know how anyone could place more value on one human life then another one at this point. I would hope that instead of trying to organize people into 'categories' of who boards when, they would just load people as quickly and efficiently as possible, making sure that every lifeboat went into the water full. Time would have been of utmost importance, so prioritizing loading and splitting up families would in my opinion be ludicrous.