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Concordia News: Please Post Here

kingcruiser1

By kingcruiser1,
in Costa Cruises

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sidari

sidari

Posted
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Normal land based Lifts/Elevators usually have a slot at the top of the doors on the outside in which to fit a Lift/Elevator Key which can be straight, curved or a combination of both which will release the doors.

 

No idea if ship Lifts/Elevators are the same, if a Lift/Elevator is stuck between floors it depends where the Counterweight is in relation the the Lift/Elevator car in order to manually wind the car up or down.

 

If the Counterweight is below the car it is easier to wind the car up to the next floor and vice versa.

 

With the list of the ship being such it would not be possible to carry out this kind of rescue unless it was carried out as soon as the people became stuck.

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MorganMars

MorganMars

Posted
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Watertheodds, (Love that name:))

 

I had considered that, too, but then why didn't the crew members get them out. They had over an hour to do so.

 

Regards,

MorganMars

 

We have been told that some victims were discovered inside the elevators with their lifejackets - CostaSmurfette

 

The article you refer to does not mention the victims were wearing lifejackets. I would imagine they were using the lifts when the power went out.

 

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Max49

Max49

Posted
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We have been told that some victims were discovered inside the elevators with their lifejackets - CostaSmurfette

 

The article you refer to does not mention the victims were wearing lifejackets. I would imagine they were using the lifts when the power went out.

 

I noticed that also. Maybe when they have their next court hearing , we will get some clarification but I also would imagine they were in the elevator when the power went out. However, that would be terrible, if true, since Schettino wasted an hour between the time of the collision until he ordered abandon ship. It seems incredulous that these people could have been trapped in a glass elevator and they could not bust their way out, nor did any one help get them out. It would be very interesting to know though.

Schettino has bragged about some heroic maneuver , as he told his wife,

but after the way he was giving interviews, in my opinion, if he truly used skill to get the boat turned around and into shallower waters; he would have been honking his own horn.

Either way, I certainly hope the investigators are wise enough to get these questions clarified.

 

 

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

Posted
Posted

There was something about the elevator/lift that seemed familar and I had some time this morning to look into it. I do not know how reliable this report is but it may shed some light on the issue.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/costa-concordia-disaster.html

 

They mention that one body, that of the little girl (may she rest in peace,) had floated to the top of an elevator/lift shaft.

 

Did not find any other reference to people being in an elevator/lift. It is possible we may learn where those unfortunate people were located at the trial but that remains to be seen.

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CostaSmurfette

CostaSmurfette

Posted
Posted
Yep - I looked at some of the articles last night too and didn't find anything that said victims were found in elevators with or without lifejackets. CostaSmurfette's article must have been one of the early accounts that ended up being incorrect.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-wrong-maps-doors-left-open-bad-wiring-is-this-why-costa-concordia-really-sank-7906895.html

 

Codacons, the Italian consumer group that is leading a class-action suit against Costa Cruises, yesterday joined the attack, claiming electrical problems may have contributed to the loss of several passengers, who are thought to have died in the stricken vessel's lifts. Codacons lawyer Giuliano Leuzzi said it was feared four victims may have drowned while trapped in the lifts.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9029866/Costa-Concordia-the-inside-story-of-the-night-of-Friday-January-13.html

 

Scroll down to MONIQUE MAUREK's account :

 

We didn’t have lifejackets and people were shouting that we should go up to Deck 4 to get some. There were people stuck in the lifts screaming so we climbed up the large staircase.

 

The point is that at least 4 were reportedly stuck in a glass lift at some point during the accident...personally I cannot think of a worse way to die that in what was a fishbowl of a glass lift gradually submerging in water with the inevitable water leaking inside and the people not being able to escape.

 

If the glass lift was tween decks 3 (atrium floor) and 4 (restaurant) then pretty much everyone who went across the atrium and the deck 4 landings will have seen these four struggling.

 

The two yet to be found COULD potentially be in one of the standard enclosed lifts on board, they have yet to be checked since its not safe to do so whilst the ship is at the angle she is currently at...they will be checked once she is drydocked.

 

Should it proven that people were trapped in the lifts, it was probably dismissed in the media as something they did not want family to consider or think about as it must be the most harrowing way to die possible.

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watertheodds

watertheodds

Posted
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It is inconceivable that on a ship of 4000+ passengers and crew that people would NOT be trapped in the elevators when a sudden and unexpected power outage occurs. I am just not of the mind that the power came back on after the impact and people were able to enter the elevators with lifejackets while escaping or the captain was able to then use the power to turn the ship towards land. However, time will tell. IMO, any death on this ship must have been horrible.

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CostaSmurfette

CostaSmurfette

Posted
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I am not a expert on passinger ship lifts' date=' but.............I would think there should be a design feature that if power dies the elevator somehow settles to the next deck and there is someway to open the doors...............seems like safety 101 to me!

 

AKK[/quote']

 

You would think that would be the case but it is not.

 

On a cruise last year the ship lost power for around 20 minutes off Salvador Bahia, there was a female pax in one of the glass elevators at the time and the elevator stopped tween decks 6 & 7. Maintenance arrived within minutes but they ended up opening the doors manually and a crewman climbing down into the capsule, a ladder was then passed down to him and the pax and they both climbed out of what was effectively the top half of the elevator doors. The elevator stayed in that position for the rest of the day, long after the power had been restored.

 

There is an escape hatch on the top of every elevator....but few people (pax) would know it was there or how to use it, its not something that people expect to have to know about really, let alone know how to use cos usually in those circumstances the emergency services (or crew) would be there to help you.

 

The ones trapped in the glass elevator(s) aboard Concordia would have seen and heard everything going on that night, the listing, waterlogging...and even if they knew about the hatch on the roof of the elevator...where would thay have gone even if they could have used it? The ship was heeled over thus the elevator wouls have been almost horizontal...quite a drop down into what would have been the landing on deck 4 or the atrium on deck 3, not to mention floating wreckage etc.

 

They will have been in that bubble watching everything around them and hearing all the noises associated with what was happening. At least in a standard enclosed elevator, it would be dark and thus all sense of what was happening would have been lost, so although no less frightening, at least you wouldn't see what was about to happen to you.

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CostaSmurfette

CostaSmurfette

Posted
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I, personally, do not use any glass elevators...no head for heights and that Towering Inferno film finished any ideas about using them for me. Give me a fully enclosed elevator or stairs every time....yep I have been stuck in an enclosed elevator a few times and it scared the wotsits out of me - mainly cos you are stuck in a steel box that you have no control over and its dangling several floors up in the dark/semi-darkness....but to be stuck in a glass bubble and to be able to see & hear what was happening in a situation like Concordia...nope...no can do.

 

So perhaps elevator safety in an emergency situation such as a severe list is also something that will be looked into, especially those jazzy glass bubbles.

 

One of many lessons and design considerations that will come from this accident....but I still won't use those glass elevators (when I stayed at the Mandarin Oriental for 4 days pre-cruise in 2010, the hotel had a cluster of glass elevators running up the center of the building, I used the service elevator that was tucked away in the bowels of the building cos those glass elevators were a no-go for me, the hotel management were fine about it and they said that I was not the first guest to refuse to use them, afterall its 23 floors, beehive shaped, so the service elevator was WELL used).

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cruiserfanfromct

cruiserfanfromct

Posted
Posted
I, personally, do not use any glass elevators...no head for heights and that Towering Inferno film finished any ideas about using them for me. Give me a fully enclosed elevator or stairs every time....yep I have been stuck in an enclosed elevator a few times and it scared the wotsits out of me - mainly cos you are stuck in a steel box that you have no control over and its dangling several floors up in the dark/semi-darkness....but to be stuck in a glass bubble and to be able to see & hear what was happening in a situation like Concordia...nope...no can do.

 

So perhaps elevator safety in an emergency situation such as a severe list is also something that will be looked into, especially those jazzy glass bubbles.

 

One of many lessons and design considerations that will come from this accident....but I still won't use those glass elevators (when I stayed at the Mandarin Oriental for 4 days pre-cruise in 2010, the hotel had a cluster of glass elevators running up the center of the building, I used the service elevator that was tucked away in the bowels of the building cos those glass elevators were a no-go for me, the hotel management were fine about it and they said that I was not the first guest to refuse to use them, afterall its 23 floors, beehive shaped, so the service elevator was WELL used).

 

The ones trapped in the glass elevator(s) aboard Concordia would have seen and heard everything going on that night, the listing, waterlogging...and even if they knew about the hatch on the roof of the elevator...where would thay have gone even if they could have used it? The ship was heeled over thus the elevator wouls have been almost horizontal...quite a drop down into what would have been the landing on deck 4 or the atrium on deck 3, not to mention floating wreckage etc.

 

They will have been in that bubble watching everything around them and hearing all the noises associated with what was happening. At least in a standard enclosed elevator, it would be dark and thus all sense of what was happening would have been lost, so although no less frightening, at least you wouldn't see what was about to happen to you.

Reply With Quote

 

Do you know for certain the passengers were stuck in the glass elevator capsule and were watching the tragedy unfold as you describe it? Scanning through the Italian press there are no substantiated reports this was the case. There is only a mention of 4 found on the afternoon of February 22 (they discovered 8 total that day including the 5 year-old) but it is not clear whether they were found in an elevator shaft or inside an elevator. CODACONS is demanding a thorough investigation of this as they are not pleased with the answers of the experts' report that was presented to the judge. Your scenario above does call to mind a previous post of yours (see below).

 

It's like those wanting to watch the removal of the wreck...its disgusting, it's voyeuristic...like vultures waiting for a body or body part to fall out of the wreckage...without so much as a thought to those directly affected by what happened...they do not care, all they want (as per the media) is that perfect view, that perfect photo or someone's grief....it's plain sick...

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sidari

sidari

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Tonka .... the idea of a Lift/Elevator car returning to the floor below would be great if it were possible, when a car becomes stuck between floors or on a landing the car brakes are applied in order to stop the car from falling.

 

The brake can be released manually but only to wind the car up or down and then re applied once it is in a position where it is level with a landing, it is not uncommon for people to be marooned in a Lift/Elevator car and to have to be rescued by ladder to the landing above when one stops between floors.

 

Whether any crew are trained in these operations i have no idea, with regard to where the people in the Lift car could have gone had they known how to or were able to get out would have been upwards.

 

Conjecture upon inference coupled with supposition

olesalt ... non of the above post or the previous one is any of these you mention and purely based on rescues of persons from Lift/Elevator cars in various places apart from ships..

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

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Posted
Der Spiegel is a German weekly news magazine has an excellent article on the salvage operation of the Costa Concordia, about Nicholas Sloane who is the senior salvage master for the salvage operation.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/how-the-costa-concordia-will-be-salvaged-a-857683.html

 

Very good. Thanks.

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

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Posted

 

We have heard stories of crew that had no idea of what they were doing. We have also heard stories of crew that went above and beyond to assist.

The crew was under a lot of pressure. They had orders from the Captain to follow but they faced 3000+ passengers that wanted off. I would not have wanted to be a crew member on that ship under those circumstances because common sense would tell you this ship was going down but the Captain was giving orders to keep everyone on board. By the time the alarm went off with the orders given, they had something close to an understandable mob scene. In the face of that almost every officer left the ship, leaving it all to the crew.

The vast majority of the crew stayed and worked to the best of their ability to get as many people off that ship as possible. Just imagine how much worse things could have been if all of them had fallen off the ship early in the evacuation.

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Tonka's Skipper

Tonka's Skipper

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Tonka .... the idea of a Lift/Elevator car returning to the floor below would be great if it were possible, when a car becomes stuck between floors or on a landing the car brakes are applied in order to stop the car from falling.

 

The brake can be released manually but only to wind the car up or down and then re applied once it is in a position where it is level with a landing, it is not uncommon for people to be marooned in a Lift/Elevator car and to have to be rescued by ladder to the landing above when one stops between floors.

 

Whether any crew are trained in these operations i have no idea, with regard to where the people in the Lift car could have gone had they known how to or were able to get out would have been upwards.

 

Conjecture upon inference coupled with supposition

 

olesalt ... non of the above post or the previous one is any of these you mention and purely based on rescues of persons from Lift/Elevator cars in various places apart from ships..

 

 

Just my point Sidari,......We can put men on the moon but can't design a system to get a elevator/lift to the next deck with the doors open????

 

AKK

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