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Concordia News: Please Post Here

kingcruiser1

By kingcruiser1,
in Costa Cruises

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Uniall

Uniall

Posted
Posted

 

Dayton Cruiser ... Thanks for the link, an interesting development it seems.

 

Yes, it is any interesting development. The decision follows the traditional maritime law decisions. I don't know the ideological leanings of the judge but it will be interesting to see what the court of appeals says, not to mention the few cases filed in more cutting edge northern districts who tend to expand the law.

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Uniall

Uniall

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Posted
Uni ... The leanings of any judge should have nothing to do with any decision they make! the decision should be made purely on what the Law is for the given situation of the case.

 

In theory, textbooks and classrooms you're correct. In reality, it doesn't work that way. There are wide ranging philosophical and ideological views that color how a judge will apply and interpret the law.

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

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Posted
Uni ... The leanings of any judge should have nothing to do with any decision they make! the decision should be made purely on what the Law is for the given situation of the case.

 

In theory, textbooks and classrooms you're correct. In reality, it doesn't work that way. There are wide ranging philosophical and ideological views that color how a judge will apply and interpret the law.

 

Sid, what Uni says is true. It's been that way for years. That doesn't mean it applies to all judges and we do have our fair share of judges that make decisions based on the law as it is written.

I believe what Uni may have been looking at is whether her view could be overturned by a higher court when it goes to an appeal, which will likely occur as the other side has that right.

 

Uni, some background checks on this judge brought up this...

 

After graduating from the University of Miami School of Law in 1991, Judge Rosenbaum worked as a Trial Attorney for the Federal Programs Branch of the Department of Justice. Her practice involved defending the constitutionality of federal statutes and agency programs. In September 1995, she joined the Independent Counsel Office’s investigation of former United States Secretary of Commerce Ronald Brown. She served as staff counsel, participating in the criminal investigation and providing advice to other team members. Upon closure of the investigation, Judge Rosenbaum joined the law firm of Holland & Knight LLP as an associate. While there, from 1996 to 1997, she worked on a variety of civil matters, including federal employment law. Judge Rosenbaum then accepted a position as a law clerk for Judge Stanley Marcus on the United States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, where she worked from January to October 1998.

 

After her clerkship, Judge Rosenbaum became an Assistant U.S. Attorney. She specialized in criminal prosecutions such as securities fraud, bank fraud, identity theft, tax fraud, telemarketing fraud, health care fraud, internet fraud, and computer crimes. In 2002, she became the chief of the Economic Crimes Section for the Central Division (Fort Lauderdale), which gave her supervisory responsibilities over eight to ten other Assistant U.S. Attorneys. She held that title until her appointment as a Magistrate Judge in 2007.

 

In 2007, the U.S. District Judges for the Southern District of Florida appointed Judge Rosenbaum to be a U.S. Magistrate Judge. As Magistrate Judge in the District of Southern District of Florida, she manages all aspects of the pre-trial process in civil and criminal cases: conducting evidentiary hearings, ruling on non-dispositive motions, making reports and recommendations regarding dispositive motions, and issuing criminal complaints, search warrants, and arrest warrants.

 

She was confirmed earlier this year and by a wide majority of the Senate.

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Uniall

Uniall

Posted
Posted
Sid, what Uni says is true. It's been that way for years. That doesn't mean it applies to all judges and we do have our fair share of judges that make decisions based on the law as it is written.

I believe what Uni may have been looking at is whether her view could be overturned by a higher court when it goes to an appeal, which will likely occur as the other side has that right.

 

Uni, some background checks on this judge brought up this...

 

After graduating from the University of Miami School of Law in 1991, Judge Rosenbaum worked as a Trial Attorney for the Federal Programs Branch of the Department of Justice. Her practice involved defending the constitutionality of federal statutes and agency programs. In September 1995, she joined the Independent Counsel Office’s investigation of former United States Secretary of Commerce Ronald Brown. She served as staff counsel, participating in the criminal investigation and providing advice to other team members. Upon closure of the investigation, Judge Rosenbaum joined the law firm of Holland & Knight LLP as an associate. While there, from 1996 to 1997, she worked on a variety of civil matters, including federal employment law. Judge Rosenbaum then accepted a position as a law clerk for Judge Stanley Marcus on the United States Circuit Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, where she worked from January to October 1998.

 

After her clerkship, Judge Rosenbaum became an Assistant U.S. Attorney. She specialized in criminal prosecutions such as securities fraud, bank fraud, identity theft, tax fraud, telemarketing fraud, health care fraud, internet fraud, and computer crimes. In 2002, she became the chief of the Economic Crimes Section for the Central Division (Fort Lauderdale), which gave her supervisory responsibilities over eight to ten other Assistant U.S. Attorneys. She held that title until her appointment as a Magistrate Judge in 2007.

 

In 2007, the U.S. District Judges for the Southern District of Florida appointed Judge Rosenbaum to be a U.S. Magistrate Judge. As Magistrate Judge in the District of Southern District of Florida, she manages all aspects of the pre-trial process in civil and criminal cases: conducting evidentiary hearings, ruling on non-dispositive motions, making reports and recommendations regarding dispositive motions, and issuing criminal complaints, search warrants, and arrest warrants.

 

She was confirmed earlier this year and by a wide majority of the Senate.

 

I really appreciated your info on Judge Rosenbaum. With her background, I'm not surprised that she took the traditional and historical interpretation of maritime law. The, still evolving, neo modern view is to over ride the fine print in the cruise contract on the grounds that there was no arms length negotiations but dictated by the cruise line, for the cruise line. That philosophy also refuses to abide by international conventions if legal claims are rendered meaningless by being too far away and too costly.

 

The US courts more likely to follow the neo modern view are in the northeast and California.

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drarill

drarill

Posted
Posted
Der Spiegel is a German weekly news magazine has an excellent article on the salvage operation of the Costa Concordia, about Nicholas Sloane who is the senior salvage master for the salvage operation.

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/how-the-costa-concordia-will-be-salvaged-a-857683.html

 

Thanks for the link. I have to add that I love Giglio's priest... This is one of my favorite quotes on this article

The priest on Giglio is free to speak his mind. Don Lorenzo, 62, a stout Milanese man, is not beholden to Costa Crociere, but rather only to God and the Gigliesi, as the locals are known. If Francesco Schettino came to him and wanted to make a confession, "I would tell him to go to hell," he says.

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gatour

gatour

Posted
Posted (edited)
Just my point Sidari' date='......We can put men on the moon but can't design a system to get a elevator/lift to the next deck with the doors open????

 

AKK[/quote']

 

I imagine it is possible, but at the risk of sounding callous, it gets down to cost/benefit analysis and where you draw the line on what you are protecting against. I imagine you can put UPS near the elevator motors. But what do you do about the conputers that control the elevators? The computers that decide to send which elevator to which deck are probably centrally located. So either you would have to harden that room and all of the cabling between it and the elevators, or make each elevator "smart". I.E. I lost power and lost contact to my "boss" so I use local resources to get me to the next floor. Then the next thing you have to think about, the power disruption was only temporary, you will have to deconflict which system is now in charge.

 

In summary, you are correct that this can be engineered around, but it would take regulation or voluntary compliance. For the latter it would take someone to bite the bullet to put up funding to have the elevator companies to engineer a solution. And even then, you have to take in account that there are thousands of elevators currently in service (if you include buildings on land), what do you do about them?

 

One thing that I am confused about, is that I would think the initial collision would not have caused the power to go out. The one exception I would think would be if the "rip" occurred near the engine room. I seemed to recall that some of the passenger videos after the initial collision, showed normal lights on which indicates to me that the power did not immediately go out. I may be mistaken about this recollection though

Edited by gatour
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cruiserfanfromct

cruiserfanfromct

Posted
Posted

Schettino is now claiming credit for the Lloyd's List crew prize. Unless there is a prize for causing the accident, delaying the evacuation, getting out of dodge before all mayhem broke loose and multiple manslaughter, I don't see how he could possibly take any credit. Unfrigginbelievable! :eek:

 

Out of deference to the families of the dead, I don't think Lloyd's List should be doling out prizes to anyone on that ship just yet. Just sayin'.

 

http://www.agi.it/english-version/italy/elenco-notizie/201209282200-cro-ren1106-costa_concordia_s_schettino_claims_credit_for_crew_prize

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Uniall

Uniall

Posted
Posted
Schettino is now claiming credit for the Lloyd's List crew prize. Unless there is a prize for causing the accident, delaying the evacuation, getting out of dodge before all mayhem broke loose and multiple manslaughter, I don't see how he could possibly take any credit. Unfrigginbelievable! :eek:

 

Out of deference to the families of the dead, I don't think Lloyd's List should be doling out prizes to anyone on that ship just yet. Just sayin'.

 

http://www.agi.it/english-version/italy/elenco-notizie/201209282200-cro-ren1106-costa_concordia_s_schettino_claims_credit_for_crew_prize

 

I traced some follow up links from Captain Coward's claim of credit for the

crew's heroic efforts to save the passengers. He has adopted a personal theme song

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSxkPUty4y4&feature=related

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SomeBeach

SomeBeach

Posted
Posted
Schettino is now claiming credit for the Lloyd's List crew prize. Unless there is a prize for causing the accident, delaying the evacuation, getting out of dodge before all mayhem broke loose and multiple manslaughter, I don't see how he could possibly take any credit. Unfrigginbelievable! :eek:

 

Out of deference to the families of the dead, I don't think Lloyd's List should be doling out prizes to anyone on that ship just yet. Just sayin'.

 

http://www.agi.it/english-version/italy/elenco-notizie/201209282200-cro-ren1106-costa_concordia_s_schettino_claims_credit_for_crew_prize

 

This man's ego knows no boundaries. He ordered his crew for an hour to tell passengers that everything was going to be ok, to return to their rooms, etc. He places not only his passengers but his crew at greater risk and then wants to take credit for what they finally had to do to assist people off that ship at a point where everyone on that ship was in full panic mode.

CT, I understand your point on the list. Out of deference not only for those that lost their lives but also all the passengers, how much worse could this have been if the crew acted as cowardly as the Captain. In the end, many of them did what they had to do to the best of their ability.

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Tonka's Skipper

Tonka's Skipper

Posted
Posted
I imagine it is possible, but at the risk of sounding callous, it gets down to cost/benefit analysis and where you draw the line on what you are protecting against. I imagine you can put UPS near the elevator motors. But what do you do about the conputers that control the elevators? The computers that decide to send which elevator to which deck are probably centrally located. So either you would have to harden that room and all of the cabling between it and the elevators, or make each elevator "smart". I.E. I lost power and lost contact to my "boss" so I use local resources to get me to the next floor. Then the next thing you have to think about, the power disruption was only temporary, you will have to deconflict which system is now in charge.

 

In summary, you are correct that this can be engineered around, but it would take regulation or voluntary compliance. For the latter it would take someone to bite the bullet to put up funding to have the elevator companies to engineer a solution. And even then, you have to take in account that there are thousands of elevators currently in service (if you include buildings on land), what do you do about them?

 

One thing that I am confused about, is that I would think the initial collision would not have caused the power to go out. The one exception I would think would be if the "rip" occurred near the engine room. I seemed to recall that some of the passenger videos after the initial collision, showed normal lights on which indicates to me that the power did not immediately go out. I may be mistaken about this recollection though

 

I see your points, but your making it more difficult then it needs to be..a dry back up power cell/battery to move and open the doors or at least move it to the lower deck.

 

As to land elevators, I am pretty sure in the states the elveators already have a system to drop the elevators to the next floor.

 

This is not a minor thing, and the issue is life saving..............

 

AKK

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Uniall

Uniall

Posted
Posted
If it doesn't go your way, blame the lawyer.

 

If you lose everything, blame the judge.

 

Thank heaven for the "experts" here, there is such clarity with preconceived notions.

 

It's knowldge that comes from 3 years in a classroom and 40 years in a courtroom while studying shifts in the laws and their interpretation that were inconceivable 4 decades earlier.

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Uniall

Uniall

Posted
Posted (edited)
Ok Uni............have the shifts in law been for the better or the worse?

 

Like beauty, it's all in the eye of the beholder (and their social and political ideology)

 

I'm a traditionalist and conservative and oppose those who twist and distort the same words to into different meanings and interpretations. I feel most strongly when the issue is interpreting our constitution or statutes.

 

But, since the common law was court made law from the beginning (not enacted by the legislature) I have no problem with the courts changing it, not twist and distort the meaning, if they say what they're doing and set forth their reasons.

 

I agree with some of the differing views in some jurisdictions on maritime law. One example, where it adopts the same changes in other areas of law, such as loosening enforcement of one sided contracts that were written by one party who has total control over it for their own benefit.

Edited by Uniall
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Tonka's Skipper

Tonka's Skipper

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Posted
Like beauty, it's all in the eye of the beholder (and their social and political ideology)

 

I'm a traditionalist and conservative and oppose those who twist and distort the same words to into different meanings and interpretations. I feel most strongly when the issue is interpreting our constitution or statutes.

 

But, since the common law was court made law from the beginning (not enacted by the legislature) I have no problem with the courts changing it, not twist and distort the meaning, if they say what they're doing and set forth their reasons.

 

I agree with some of the differing views in some jurisdictions on maritime law. One example, where it adopts the same changes in other areas of law, such as loosening enforcement of one sided contracts that were written by one party who has total control over it for their own benefit.

 

Gee.....you wouldn't be talking about the contracts we all sign as passengers?????.now would you? *G*

 

AKK

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Keel Haul

Keel Haul

Posted
Posted
Like beauty, it's all in the eye of the beholder (and their social and political ideology)
UNI its off topic but it may interest you http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/20/sarah-catt-punishment-god

The power of Masons within the judicial system in the UK is nearly extinct but in Italy?

P2 is still not an invitation to urinate unless they are after you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/12/roberto-calvi-blackfriars-bridge-mafia

 

The trial that is captivating Italy at present is http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/29/pope-former-butler-trial-theft

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Uniall

Uniall

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Posted
UNI its off topic but it may interest you http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/20/sarah-catt-punishment-god

The power of Masons within the judicial system in the UK is nearly extinct but in Italy?

P2 is still not an invitation to urinate unless they are after you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/12/roberto-calvi-blackfriars-bridge-mafia

 

The trial that is captivating Italy at present is http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/29/pope-former-butler-trial-theft

 

Interesting articles. Thanks for posting them.

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