Have you wondered what a medical emergency aboard X would be like? Here's my story.

[Vagabondage]

Original poster here again...

 

Since I have been critical here of Celebrity's seeming lack of concern and timely communication about many aspects of our experience, I want to waste no time in telling you that I just got off a phone call from Stephanie Madeiros in X's Guest Relations department. Unlike yesterday's fairly perfunctory e-mail response from another GR team member, who didn't even bother to initiate a pro forma phone call to us after receiving my two long letters, Ms. Medeiros was very polite, seemed genuinely empathetic, and is obviously trying hard to address our concerns. When I apologized again for the length of the letters, she said she was actually glad to have so many details. (She obviously is a patient person!) She will be following up with me next week after I am clearer how our trip insurer handles some of our issues.

 

I told Ms. M that the simple fact of finally receiving communication initiated by Celebrity has already made me feel better about our unfortunate experience. She said that normally followup contacts are made which were never made in our case, and she was most apologetic.

 

Though many aspects of our ill-fated trip remain in limbo at this point, for the first time I already feel ready to contemplate another try at our anniversary cruise to somewhere with X.

 

Ms. Medeiros indicated that some of the questions I asked X about passengers' legal rights to refuse onshore medical treatment arranged by the ship's infirmary are not ones Guest Relations has the answer to, but she gave me contact info for another X department who may be better able to answer them. Since it's coming up on the weekend Eastern Time, I'm not going to contact that department right this minute, but once I do, I'll post here whatever information I can obtain that may be of use to other passengers.

 

Again, thanks for your continued interest in and patience with this long, involved string!

[gentlemancruiser]

Wow! You do have my deepest sympathy.

 

I thought that in the US you could get medical treatment as good as what is available in Europe, the only problem being that you have to pay through the nose for it and if you have any pre-existing conditions then it becomes prohibitively expensive. I didn't know you had it so bad!

 

Let me give you two examples. Firstly, we have two cruises in Europe this year. In both cases I will travel with my EH1C card (which is free) - this will give me free or very low priced, quality treatment anywhere in Europe.

 

Secondly, ten years ago I had a very serious accident that needed nineteen weeks in hospital. I had health insurance as part of my job, but chose to be treated on the UK National Health Service, because I wanted the very best outcome, which is what I got. I continue to be treated very well, for free, to this day.

 

During the debates in the USA about healthcare, one genius said that, "If Steven Hawking were English, he would be dead". Well he is English, and if not for the NHS he would be long gone.

 

We Europeans are very proud of our medical provision and wouldn't swap it for the US system even IF our lives depended on it.

.

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Again - where's the like button!!!

[natshala]

Judy and Jim,

 

So sorry to hear of your nightmare. I think we all learned a lot from your experience. Thank you for taking the time to share it. I'm glad you are both ok.

 

You're very brave to even consider another cruise. I think it would take me a very long time to get on a ship again.

 

So -X- finally called you. Do you think this thread had anything to do with that? Just sayin'....

[Pushka]

Glad that you are home safe and sound.

 

Travelling overseas with chronic and acute medical conditions is a difficult thing unfortunately, and health services can be very unlike what we receive in our respective countries. I can fully understand why the ship medical personnel decided to have you assessed and treated on land and not able to reboard. A serious unexpected medical emergency is difficult enough at sea but unfortunately your situation came on so quickly once, that it could have occurred again and maybe not cleared so quickly. And I guess the ship didn't have a great deal of choice when it came to selecting which hospital you were treated at. This was probably the best.

 

Your insurance covers must be much more accepting than ours in Australia. Serious chronic conditions are never covered here, nor are recent acute ones. So it is unlikely that an Australian insurance company would have covered any of these costs.

 

I'm not sure I would have travelled so close to surgery. I faced a similar situation where I thought I might need bowel surgery about 3 months prior to the cruise. My first thought was that if it was needed, then I would cancel it. But then I am a worry sort like that.

 

When a sudden medical emergency happens and a ship has to change their itinerary to do a medivac or similar, then this creates additional issues and delays and even port misses, for everyone but the health of the passenger is of course paramount. That being the case, where you faced a life threatening situation and perhaps you expressed significant concerns to the crew about your husbands mental health, then honestly, I can totally understand why they thought that land was the best place for you to be.

[jackdiamond]

Pushka, your observatios are very kind and very astute.

[lobster129]

The following is a link to a Cruise Critics article about what happens if you get "sick at sea". What each cruise line's facilities, limitations and expectation are. It is NOT specific for just Celebrity (but you can compare it to other cruise lines)

 

I highly recommend taking the time to read this....it seems well researched. I am a career RN.

 

The article seems VERY clear...the ship's Dr is the boss. If he/she feels you should disembark for treatment....you do not have an option to remain on board.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=175

[Vagabondage]

The following is a link to a Cruise Critics article about what happens if you get "sick at sea". What each cruise line's facilities, limitations and expectation are. It is NOT specific for just Celebrity (but you can compare it to other cruise lines)

 

I highly recommend taking the time to read this....it seems well researched. I am a career RN.

 

The article seems VERY clear...the ship's Dr is the boss. If he/she feels you should disembark for treatment....you do not have an option to remain on board.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=175

 

That's a very useful link, Lobster, and I agree that everyone should read it even if you think you're healthy as a horse. It confirms my own experience that X's medical facilities and staff are among the best in the cruise industry.

 

I totally get (and got at the time) that the ship's doctor is the boss, and though we were hugely disappointed in his decision about me and attempted to have him reconsider in view of my improvement, we understood that we could not change it once it was final. I think the crew would tell you I was cooperative and polite, not a difficult patient or passenger. I also have consistently praised the excellent Solstice medical team and acknowledged that they were only trying to do the very best for me. None of us could have foreseen the nightmare outcome at Ashford/El Presby, which I still believe had to have been a fluke to some degree.

 

However, for me the murkiest question remaining is whether we were obliged to make use of the medical arrangements the ship had made for me in San Juan. Celebrity clearly states that the doctors are independent contractors providing services solely for the guests' convenience and that X cannot be held liable for the results. [Just to reiterate, we are NOT trying to prove any Celebrity liability anyhow. We are not litigious people.] This cruise contract language suggests to me that X does not really have the authority to insist on particular transport and hospitalization arrangements once we are off the ship. That is what I was so unclear about during our emergency, and remain unclear about today. I'm working on getting it clarified by Celebrity.

 

Of course, at the time we disembarked I had full confidence in the "best in the city", English-speaking Dr. Goss San Juan arrangements that both the ship's medics and the port agent described to me so reassuringly, so I went reluctantly but cooperatively. Given a rerun on the scenario, I believe I would have even more firmly declined the ambulance to the hospital, called my trip insurer for medical assistance, and made my own decision from there. If the trip insurer indicated that failing to follow the ship medics' advice re: hospitalization would void my coverage, then I would hustle myself to the hospital on my own. If the trip insurer said I could fly back to the lower 48 to be checked out and further treated there if needed, I'd certainly have opted for that.

 

In my case I was recovered and fit to travel onward from PR (though lacking the doctor's statement to that effect which no one had forewarned us about the necessity of). If necessary I could have flown back to MIA immediately after disembarkation even though I was 48 hours w/o sleep at that point and a hotel was my primary goal. Other pax who might experience more serious, unresolved medical emergencies might WELL require specialized onward air transport, which is hellaciously expensive if you're not insured.

MOTTO: Don't leave home without good, comprehensive trip insurance, not just cruise cancellation coverage. [sorry to be a broken record.]

 

Thanks again, Lobster.

[Vagabondage]

So -X- finally called you. Do you think this thread had anything to do with that? Just sayin'....

 

Hi Natasha --

 

I think the primary reason is that I requested Guest Relations to let me work with a different rep in their department, and Ms. Medeiros immediately saw how many balls had been dropped or misthrown. She is a gem, unlike the earlier GR guy.

 

But Ms. Medeiros DID indicate she had read this thread with interest after I gave her the link. :) She is obviously one X staffer who is really sensitive to passenger concerns -- not just mine, but all of your reactions, too. Hurray for her!

[CI66774]

This is a cautionary tale. You are in charge of your health - not the cruiseline, not anyone else. You have control over your body and what is done to do it. Have excellent medical insurance and even better trip insurance. Don't expect any cruiseline to be your advocate - that's not their job. Don't succumb to any Dr.'s "authority" - they're not God, they're merely service providers like anyone else. Don't be a victim - trust your own instincts.

[jackdiamond]

Another cautionary tale-Because of my wife's illness we cancelled two cruises on the Equinox for January and March of this year; and, we paid a penalty. We would never have subjected her to the prospect of the "problems" suggested by this post. Additionally, we would never have wished to subject the cruise personnel or the passengers to the travails which might have occurred in the event she had sustained a serious illness.

As a matter of fact, you could conclude that our decision was somewhat prophetic since she was hospitalized on an emergency basis in January.

[nothriver]

Thank you Judy for sharing your story, and thanks to all the posters for their wonderful tips and suggestions. I'll be following up on many of the issues presented here before venturing out of the US on our upcoming travels. I normally travel with my children and my mother who has a large number or minor health issues. On one hand, I want to travel while we can, but on the other hand, it is important to be prepared for unexpected emergencies. In our case, it seems most purdent to find a third adult to join us when we travel, in the event of an emergency, there would be one adult to stay with the children and another to stay with the patient. I'm als going to look into the medjet coverage. I've read before to never leave the ship without the phone number for the port agent but Judy's unfortunate story reinforces how important it is to keep in contact with the port agent - who should have served as an advocate for Judy and her husband.

 

I guess I understand Celebrity's decision to remove Judy from the ship, but I'm very upset to hear that there was no support for them after disembarkation.

 

I'm so glad to hear that you are home and recovering for your scary adventure, Judy, and again, I'm very appreciative of your willingness to share your story so that readers can be better prepared for similar emergencies.

[Pushka]

Another cautionary tale-Because of my wife's illness we cancelled two cruises on the Equinox for January and March of this year; and, we paid a penalty. We would never have subjected her to the prospect of the "problems" suggested by this post. Additionally, we would never have wished to subject the cruise personnel or the passengers to the travails which might have occurred in the event she had sustained a serious illness.

As a matter of fact, you could conclude that our decision was somewhat prophetic since she was hospitalized on an emergency basis in January.

 

Sometimes, you just "know" when to make a particular decision. I hope that your wife recovers very quickly from her health problems. And yes, I think people do need to be cognizent of not just their health issues for themselves, but for everyone else around them when they are held captive on a boat. I wish that every traveller made the same responsible decision as you did.

 

As far as being compelled to use a particular hospital, then this is where your Insurance company should have been used as a go between.

[celle]

As far as being compelled to use a particular hospital, then this is where your Insurance company should have been used as a go between.

 

And that is why it is important to notify your insurance company as soon as you know that you have a health problem, and to keep them updated all along the way.

[jackdiamond]

Sometimes, you just "know" when to make a particular decision. I hope that your wife recovers very quickly from her health problems. And yes, I think people do need to be cognizent of not just their health issues for themselves, but for everyone else around them when they are held captive on a boat. I wish that every traveller made the same responsible decision as you did.

 

As far as being compelled to use a particular hospital, then this is where your Insurance company should have been used as a go between.

Thank you. If she does recover, and that is in doubt, it will not be very quickly.

[VillaHappy]

Judy, I think you are my new hero :) I learned so much from this thread. It was well worth the time it took to read!

So glad you are back home, safe and sound. And healthy! That really is the most important thing.

Many blessings to you and your husband!

[Clayswife]

What a horrendous ordeal ! Can't even imagine how scary and frustrating it must have been .... In light of those events, I can't believe Celebrity didn't step up to make some sort of amends (El Presby, I highly doubt, is even interested in making ANY amends whatsoever) ... but, the bottom line is, you and your husband are both OK. After hearing your story, I hope I NEVER have a medical emergency at sea :eek:

 

Jackie

[Fixit2010]

Wow! You do have my deepest sympathy.

 

 

Secondly, ten years ago I had a very serious accident that needed nineteen weeks in hospital. I had health insurance as part of my job, but chose to be treated on the UK National Health Service, because I wanted the very best outcome, which is what I got. I continue to be treated very well, for free, to this day.

 

.

 

Let me tell you good people a fact or two. I am from UK and very grateful for our NHS and free treatment. Only a couple of years back did I decide to leave the NHS as a senior technical manager in one of London's busy Teaching and A&E hospitals to start my own business. While I was there, I was party to and saw first hand the wastage of tens of millions of pounds on various equipment, building contracts, IT services, temporary staff. I can give you a page of details on each naming people, projects, dates, costs etc. I have seen and investigated blunders and mistakes and I know all too well how the NHS closes ranks to protect its self. Medical staff on the front line do their best. You get taken in to the ER and you will be seen by a junior working 20 hour days. You get stabilized moved to an observation ward and forgotten about for 24 hours until you start complaining. Registrars there are under pressure and book patients in for procedures without looking at crucial time limits that have expired. I have know people who were very ill to pass away and their families were not called in earlier as requested. I known doctors to make decisions to operate and not tell the next of kin the risks of the patient not coming around afer just so they get the go ahead as each job, each procedure each bandage is charged for and each NHS Trust has to now make a profit to achieve Foundation Status or be taken over. The politics are rife, the executive management are out for their own interests such as the millionaires pension club. They have no idea, outdated dinosaurs. When someone bright and enthusiastic comes in with some sensible recommendations that will improve times or get faster appointments, or make results quicker, that person is isolated and treated like rubbish because they are bucking the trend that has been inplace for years. The management sees that person as a threat and promotion is unlikely. It sux to see how the NHS is actually run and the nasty protected cliches that need to be brought down just get away with it and spending thousands on nothing. As I have a lot of respect for the people that patch you up and help you, but do not for one second belive the NHS is all singing and all dancing. Untill the old boys go and proper commercial sector management take it over, it will never improve. That is why those in the UK that can afford to go privately do so. One senior neuro surgeon told me that NHS hospitals are not places to get better in, they are the last place you go to if you have no other option and your outlook will only get worse.

[delondin]

Sorry for what you had to go through. Every cruise we go on there is always someone being taken off in an ambulance and naively we thought that they would be accompanied by port agent or similar. How wrong were we!

 

Imagine being a solo traveller and kicked off and left in that situation.

[caladezi]

It has been very interesting reading all of these posts and while I feel sorry for the OP and what she had to endure, I also feel that she expected way too much from the cruise line. I'm also surprised that so many posters think that Celebrity, or any other cruise line, had any responsibility beyond emergency treatment on the ship and arrangement for transportation to a medical facility. Yes,it would be nice if the cruise line could provide someone to stay and advocate for the patient but the fact is that they are not set up to do that and it is not their responsibility. IMHO, the OP put herself in harms way when she boarded the ship fully aware of all of her medical problems. The last place that I would want to go in that condition is out in the middle of an ocean trapped on a ship and unable to obtain needed advanced care. In this case she rolled the dice and craps came up. I guess I'll leave it at that but I think that you get my point.

[phoenix_dream]

I have learned alot in reading this thread (including more information from the OP that modified some of my original conclusions which were based on only the original posting). This is neither a criticism nor a legal opinion, but I have to think that once Celebrity is forcing disembarkation, I cannot imagine why they would have any legal control over what you choose to do when you leave the ship. That is a lesson learned for me. Another lesson learned is to make changes to return flights on your own if possible rather than having Celebrity 'help'. Knowing this in advance, flights could have been changed without having to describe the reason why and there would be no issue with a doctor's release needed (unless for some reason Celebrity would automatically notify airlines of the situation?? I cannot imagine they are organized enough to do this but who knows). Last and not least, for future cruises I think I will do a little research based on the area I am traveling and determine where I would prefer to go for hospital care should the necessity arise. This is likely true for anyone, but especially for those with known problems and for those of us who are members of the AARP generation. I would also do what the OP said she did as well - carry a document that lists all health conditions, all medications and their purpose (to encourage rapid understanding should the names not be familiar), and all doctor's contact information.

 

Also glad to hear that Celebrity is providing more customer service on this issue (I also believe it may be due to this thread!), although I have to say that I still agree with their original decision for disembarkation due to the very serious nature (potentially fatal) of the issue that presented. Yes, there are liability concerns. But there is also (hopefully) concern for the well-being of the passenger herself, as well as fairness to the other passengers onboard. They knew they did not have the facility to effectively handle the type of surgery that would have been needed should the situation return and not resolve itself this time. They knew the best port for medical care on that cruise was Puerto Rico. They also knew that if the situation did re-present itself, they might have had to completely change their itinerary and divert the thousands of other passengers back to PR, with the likely elimination of at least one of the port stops (or possibly delay for a medical helicopter evac? - impact to timeline potentially the same). Fortunately, the issue did not recur, but for all three of these reasons I still believe it was the appropriate decision and do not fault Celebrity for that part of this issue, distressful though it was.

[jackdiamond]

caladezi, your comments are very astute; and, they demonstrate our decision vis-a-vis my wife's problems. My guess is that had we cruised in January, she may very well have died.

Missing a cruise or two is not a pleasant thought, but it sure is ahead of dying.

[Dale]

It has been very interesting reading all of these posts and while I feel sorry for the OP and what she had to endure, I also feel that she expected way too much from the cruise line. I'm also surprised that so many posters think that Celebrity, or any other cruise line, had any responsibility beyond emergency treatment on the ship and arrangement for transportation to a medical facility. Yes,it would be nice if the cruise line could provide someone to stay and advocate for the patient but the fact is that they are not set up to do that and it is not their responsibility. IMHO, the OP put herself in harms way when she boarded the ship fully aware of all of her medical problems. The last place that I would want to go in that condition is out in the middle of an ocean trapped on a ship and unable to obtain needed advanced care. In this case she rolled the dice and craps came up. I guess I'll leave it at that but I think that you get my point.

Well said.

[bug_dan]

I also would agree with caladezi's comments. In Jan 2010 when my wife broke her hip in a fall on Celebrity's Mercury, we had to disembark in St Thomas. The fall happened on the first sea day out of Baltimore Md and she spent 3 nights in the infirmary from Tuesday to Friday morning when we docked in St Thomas. Celebrity's port agent contacted me and offered to provide transportation to/from the hospital to a hotel if I needed it. I did take advantage of the offer one time, but opted for a taxi the other times. Other than that we really had no dealings with Celebrity, nor did I expect we would. What we did have was cruise insurance issued through Celebrity. I did not have to contact them, the ship took care of it and the insurance company contacted me on Saturday morning. They also contacted the surgeon who operated on my wife to arrange for her return home and he insisted she be accompanied by an RN, which the insurance company arranged. The insurance also made my hotel reservation, handled my return air arrangements and arranged to have my wife admitted to a rehab hospital in Lancaster with my HMO's approval. I was very satisfied with Celebrity's insurance although I wish they would offer a higher medical and travel limit. They covered the complete cost of the travel for my wife and all of my expenses except for the hotel bill?? The insurance also pro rated the cruise cost and we received full payment prorated of course, except for the prepaid gratuities. I did not even try to recover the gratuities from Celebrity. We did receive reimbursement for most of the medical expenses including the $4000 bill from the ship's infirmary, which we had to pay with a credit card.

 

All turned out well, but I can't begin to imagine what might have happened if my wife had been airlifted from the ship to shore. I would have had to stay on the ship until it docked in St Thomas and she may have been taken to somewhere along the coast. That would have been a nightmare, but per the Ship's doctor, they were considering it, only they were too far from land and too far south. I certainly hope this never happens to anyone, but only wanted to point out if your spouse, travel companion or even you have mental issues, you might want to keep it in mind as something that could happen.

 

One other thing that I haven't seen mentioned is that if the OP had had a good travel agent, the agent might have bee able to provide assistance.

[Michidoeme]

However, for me the murkiest question remaining is whether we were obliged to make use of the medical arrangements the ship had made for me in San Juan. Celebrity clearly states that the doctors are independent contractors providing services solely for the guests' convenience and that X cannot be held liable for the results. [Just to reiterate, we are NOT trying to prove any Celebrity liability anyhow. We are not litigious people.] This cruise contract language suggests to me that X does not really have the authority to insist on particular transport and hospitalization arrangements once we are off the ship. That is what I was so unclear about during our emergency, and remain unclear about today. I'm working on getting it clarified by Celebrity.

 

Dear Vagabondage,

I think the advice some of the posters gave was probably well intended, but could have caused you (or others in your situation) a lot more problems. If you break the chain between doctors, hospitalizations, etc. on your own decision, your insurance company would most likely refuse to cover you for the expenses incurred after you decide to "sign yourself out". In case you would have gone to a hotel or home without being cleared by a doctor and your illness would have recurred or worsened, you would have been completely on your own and you could not reclaim reimbursement of costs or get further assistance from insurance company. Just imagine you would have had a severe emergency during the flight home, then all resulting costs of possibly even an unscheduled landing would have been for you.

Good luck,

[jackdiamond]

However, for me the murkiest question remaining is whether we were obliged to make use of the medical arrangements the ship had made for me in San Juan. Celebrity clearly states that the doctors are independent contractors providing services solely for the guests' convenience and that X cannot be held liable for the results. [Just to reiterate, we are NOT trying to prove any Celebrity liability anyhow. We are not litigious people.] This cruise contract language suggests to me that X does not really have the authority to insist on particular transport and hospitalization arrangements once we are off the ship. That is what I was so unclear about during our emergency, and remain unclear about today. I'm working on getting it clarified by Celebrity.

 

Dear Vagabondage,

I think the advice some of the posters gave was probably well intended, but could have caused you (or others in your situation) a lot more problems. If you break the chain between doctors, hospitalizations, etc. on your own decision, your insurance company would most likely refuse to cover you for the expenses incurred after you decide to "sign yourself out". In case you would have gone to a hotel or home without being cleared by a doctor and your illness would have recurred or worsened, you would have been completely on your own and you could not reclaim reimbursement of costs or get further assistance from insurance company. Just imagine you would have had a severe emergency during the flight home, then all resulting costs of possibly even an unscheduled landing would have been for you.

Good luck,

Your observations are appropriate. To put it in more simplistic terms, consider the release of yourself or loved from a U.S. hospital, when you wish to ambulate from your room without the use of a wheelchair. In all of my or my loved ones experiences, the wheelchair has always prevailed. Perhaps the chance of injury etc., might be no more than 5-10% for self ambulation but it is usually 0% with the wheel chair. Concern for the patient's well being and protection from med mal exposure is predominant.