The other side of the Freedom/tobacco story

[Kristi Williamson]

That is either Ms. Harvey's or Mr. Askin's interpretation of what RCI said, NOT an actual claim from RCI.

 

Where's the actual RCI claim that they were destroyed? As I've pointed out at least twice, "taken by law enforcement to be destroyed", which is what the RCI spokeswoman actually WROTE to Mr. Askin in an email, is NOT the same as RCI's claiming that it WAS destroyed. So there's no proof that RCI lied.

 

Maybe more quotations will come to light showing the RCI did lie about the disposition of the "tobacco". But nothing that's been published so far shows that they lied.

 

But, wouldn't RCI be responsible for coming back and saying...OK, we took it and started to destroy it and then we didn't and we gave it back to them. Which, in and of itself sounds completely crazy, right? Since both the passengers AND the PA are openly stating that they got their tobacco/hookah herb/whatever it was back, then RCI obviously is misrepresenting what happened...at best. Like you said, they'll have to come back to it or for me it's misdirection of what really happened and that gives the impression that they are CYA's so they can claim these people broke the contract.

 

As others have said, it's terribly fishy and I think RCI will come out on the bad end of this. If they didn't break the contract, and there's no evidence that they did, then RCI has wronged them.

[bigeagle12]

Time to bow out. Everyone is firmly planted in their positions and will not budge. At least a few have been converted since the original post. Ya'll have fun now.

[bajathree]

Steve........he should be, as this is his field of work. And, like a captain of a ship, he is the captain of his station. He has said who he works for, and all that I can say is he is a gentleman, extremely knowledgeable, and a very close acquaintance, if not a friend. So, I do know a bit of Paul, and the reliability of his responses.

 

Rick

 

Rick....thanks for that info. I have always respected Paul's postings.....just never really knew his full expertise till this thread.

[Kristi Williamson]

Lol! Thanks for the vote of confidence, but that is one of the questions of the day.

 

I'm pretty sure a controlled substance is one regulated by the Gov., right? (not sure off the top of my head but that sounds right) That doesn't make it illegal...at all, actually.

[rubrrick]

The main reason I was concerned about our cruise was that it looked like some security person was responsible for singling out a couple and causing irreparable harm to them over an assumption. But since the phone call and Cruise Critic's article, evidently I put too much into the OP's account. I do still worry that we might run into that person. I already have issues with TSA and the people they employ and have witnessed stuff in airports. To me, it is concerning, although I don't smuggle anything, But that doesn't make me less afraid that someone like that could cause trouble for us for no good reason over something trivial like a bottle full of different pills or something.

 

 

Becci, you don't have a thing to worry about. I'll write to you personally later, but what people need to know about you.........firstly, I know you and have cruised with you, and find you to be forthrightly honest! How do I know that......welll, it's because you held my feet to the fire, when I said that I would buy you the first drink........and I did!!:D

 

With that drink, and some great conversation, I found you to be open on every subject.

 

So, folks, if Becci seems to be, to some of you, sharing things about a phone call..........it's because of her unbiased honesty, and nothing more.

 

Becci, the next time you get a call from corporate............don't share it!!;)

 

Rick

[bajathree]

Do they have the same effects as mj? Are they both smoked?

 

Think I have posted this 3X on this thread now...but since you asked:

 

Synthetic cannabis is a psychoactive herbal and chemical product that, when consumed, allegedly mimics the effects of cannabis. It is best known by the brand names K2[1] and Spice,[2] both of which have largely become genericized trademarks used to refer to any synthetic cannabis product. (It is also for this reason that synthetic cannabis is often referred to as spice product, due to the latter.) A type of synthetic cannabis sold in Australasia is known as Kronic.

Research on the safety of synthetic cannabis is only now becoming available. Initial studies are focused on the role of synthetic cannabis and psychosis. It seems likely that synthetic cannabis can precipitate psychosis and in some cases it is prolonged. These studies suggest that synthetic cannabinoid intoxication is associated with acute psychosis, worsening of previously stable psychotic disorders, and also may have the ability to trigger a chronic (long-term) psychotic disorder among vulnerable individuals such as those with a family history of mental illness.[3][4]

When synthetic cannabis blends first went on sale in the early 2000s, it was thought that they achieved an effect through a mixture of legal herbs. Laboratory analysis in 2008 showed that this is not the case, and that they in fact contain synthetic cannabinoids that act on the body in a similar way to cannabinoids naturally found in cannabis, such as THC. A large and complex variety of synthetic cannabinoids, most often cannabicyclohexanol, JWH-018, JWH-073, or HU-210, are used in an attempt to avoid the laws that make cannabis illegal, making synthetic cannabis a designer drug. It has been sold under various brand names, online, in head shops, and at some gas stations.

It is often marketed as "herbal incense"; however, some brands market their products as "herbal smoking blends". In either case, the products are usually smoked by users. Although synthetic cannabis does not produce positive results in drug tests for cannabis, it is possible to detect its metabolites in human urine. The synthetic cannabinoids contained in synthetic cannabis products have been made illegal in many European countries. On November 24, 2010, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration announced it would use emergency powers to ban many synthetic cannabinoids within a month.[5] Prior to the announcement, several US states had already made them illegal under state law. As of March 1, 2011, five cannabinoids, JWH-018, JWH-073, CP-47,497, JWH-200, and cannabicyclohexanol are now illegal in the US because these substances have the potential to be extremely harmful and, therefore, pose an imminent hazard to the public safety.[6][7]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis

[toocruisin2]

I am really happy that RCI is paying attention to Cruise Critic and this thread.

 

They can see that their actions stir strong emotions with current, past and prospective travelers; hopefully that will influence them in positive ways.

 

I believe that it's okay to hold RCI to a higher standard than the OP, and when their rep said things to CC that didn't square up ("item tested positive for a controlled substance in a field test conducted by RCI security and witnessed by Port Canaveral police officers"), people called them out on it.

 

I also believe that when their corporate media folks had a chance to do damage control, via a CC poster, the took advantage; modestly adjusting the words to "RCCL's test is much more "broad spectrum" and did test positive for a questionable substance".

 

And I believe the OP made some curious and likely intentional omissions (the chamber pipe and the concealed canister compartment) in order to make their story more appealing.

 

Ironic that on the FoS meets site the OP had been engaged in a conversation with other passengers specifically addressing how vigorous RCI and port security was, and the OP expressed that she would be PO'd if her cruise was jeopardized because they broke a rule.

 

Being that the OP and RCI have used this forum to get their story out, I think its fair for us to question their motives and honesty.

 

I think its also fair to question and probe each other, and I'm glad that for the most part it's been a civil process.

 

Thanks, Paul

[ryano]

Time to bow out. Everyone is firmly planted in their positions and will not budge. At least a few have been converted since the original post. Ya'll have fun now.

 

I honestly think this whole thread just needs to go away for that reason alone. not to mention all the vile mudslinging and name calling back and forth. that isnt my call though. Ive tried myself to bow out as well and just keep coming back :rolleyes: that is my fault. no one elses

[Kristi Williamson]

I'm getting ready to tuck the kiddos in, but I genuinely hope this gets resolved and all facts come out. Otherwise, I'm not comfortable at all with passengers being kicked off a ship with what the PA is calling a totally legal substance. I think it's sticky and just not OK, regardless of how she packed or otherwise.

 

If it comes out that RCI has info we don't know, I'd feel better...if not, I think they should get a full refund and compensation for all expenses incurred if this really was just hookah herb/tobacco/etc...

 

Hopefully, we'll get solid facts in the coming weeks. Goodnight, all... ;)

[aurelius180]

Wow. You really are one angry girl. Why? This isn't worth getting so upset about.

 

But since you named me, please show me where I said there weren't tests. :confused:

 

What I said was you cannot test for tobacco, nor spice. And as such, they have no way of knowing which it is. That is fact.

 

BTW, I've mentioned suspected spice several times in both threads now. To those who actually know me, that would be what we call a "hint.";)

 

I'd be willing to bet there is one person on here, not directly involved, who has the ability and contacts to find out what exactly the "tobacco" in question was believed to be. Unfortunately they're not in a position to publicly disclose this information. Thankfully I'm married and well versed in hints.

 

It's funny how so many on here can quote others as long as it furthers their argument but overlooks the important comments.

 

If "spice" is illegal, but you can't test something to prove it is spice, how do you convict someone of having the substance?

 

If my deciphering of the hint is correct that's why the OP wasn't arrested.

 

It may be hard for some to believe but not every person who breaks the law or is believed to have broken the law is arrested. :cool:

[johneeo]

 

As others have said, it's terribly fishy and I think RCI will come out on the bad end of this.

 

That ship has already sailed.

 

When you have an organization being run by the equivalent of circus clowns, these things happen.:rolleyes:

[Aquahound]

I'm pretty sure a controlled substance is one regulated by the Gov., right? (not sure off the top of my head but that sounds right) That doesn't make it illegal...at all, actually.

 

 

I don't know if you saw my post way back earlier in this thread giving a media example involving me, but one thing I know is that specific terms and words cannot be taken as gospel unless you see it in writing directly from the source....in this case the police officer and RCI. Unfortunately, we do not have either. Like these threads, articles need to be taken with a grain of salt.

[bigeagle12]

I'm getting ready to tuck the kiddos in, but I genuinely hope this gets resolved and all facts come out. Otherwise, I'm not comfortable at all with passengers being kicked off a ship with what the PA is calling a totally legal substance. I think it's sticky and just not OK, regardless of how she packed or otherwise.

 

If it comes out that RCI has info we don't know, I'd feel better...if not, I think they should get a full refund and compensation for all expenses incurred if this really was just hookah herb/tobacco/etc...

 

Hopefully, we'll get solid facts in the coming weeks. Goodnight, all... ;)

 

Couldn't resisit .. one more time .. was not proven legal .. there is no such test .. and there are many reasons it could not be proven illegal .. official incident report only states it did not test positive for THC.

[mechcc]

Example: 30 years ago a girl in the apartment below ours was spaced out on Valium and fell asleep smoking a cigarette on the couch. She died .. 8 apartments burned out .. fortunately no one else died.

 

Fire on a cruise ship .. that might affect the safety and health of other passengers.

 

Thanks Bigeagle - that is a good example. I have no knowledge of spice or some of the other drugs that could be laced into what ever. But if it produces an extreme high, well I've seen people high on pot that do some pretty stupid stuff that endangers themselves and others.

 

Hubby was just prescribed a controlled substance and I knew we would need to pack it in it's container with the prescription label. Now I'm thinking that all the ton of meds we both take should be packed in original containers and not the 7 day pill boxes we've used before. Just don't want a dog to alert to the legally in possession of the controlled substance and have loose pills. :eek: Guess I should thank the original OP for that enlightment. :rolleyes:

[Kristi Williamson]

Couldn't resisit .. one more time .. was not proven legal .. there is no such test .. and there are many reasons it could not be proven illegal .. official incident report only states it did not test positive for THC.

 

 

OK, we'll have to agree to disagree because that isn't what the article says, regardless if it's through a rep or someone standing right there. The PA called it tobacco/hookah herb and handed it back to the OP and her husband. If it was questionable they would have kept it, in my opinion. That's what it says and that's what I'm going by.

 

Have a good night and again, hopefully we'll get solid info sometime soon. I think this is actually relevant and I'm grateful most everyone kept their cool as we discussed, or simply ignored those that couldn't do so. It makes for much nicer debate. ;)

[kenth59]

That ship has already sailed.

 

When you have an organization being run by the equivalent of circus clowns, these things happen.:rolleyes:

 

I just don't understand why given the way you feel about RCI why you would even cruise on one of their ships and give them your money???

[Aquahound]

I'd be willing to bet there is one person on here, not directly involved, who has the ability and contacts to find out what exactly the "tobacco" in question was believed to be. Unfortunately they're not in a position to publicly disclose this information. Thankfully I'm married and well versed in hints.

 

It's funny how so many on here can quote others as long as it furthers their argument but overlooks the important comments.

 

If my deciphering of the hint is correct that's why the OP wasn't arrested.

 

It may be hard for some to believe but not every person who breaks the law or is believed to have broken the law is arrested. :cool:

 

You are a very smart man and someone for which I have tremendous respect on these boards.

 

You saw the other thread...labeled something like "another couple booted." It was a couple kicked off the Majesty of the Seas with confirmed marijuana. They were not arrested. Often times, personal quantities of misdemeanor level drugs do not result in arrest. It just depends on the discretion of the officers involved.

[bigeagle12]

Thanks Bigeagle - that is a good example. I have no knowledge of spice or some of the other drugs that could be laced into what ever. But if it produces an extreme high, well I've seen people high on pot that do some pretty stupid stuff that endangers themselves and others.

 

Hubby was just prescribed a controlled substance and I knew we would need to pack it in it's container with the prescription label. Now I'm thinking that all the ton of meds we both take should be packed in original containers and not the 7 day pill boxes we've used before. Just don't want a dog to alert to the legally in possession of the controlled substance and have loose pills. :eek: Guess I should thank the original OP for that enlightment. :rolleyes:

 

My wife and I always use the 7 day pill boxes. Most if not all prescription and non-prescription pills can be identified by color, shape, and code.

[bigeagle12]

OK, we'll have to agree to disagree because that isn't what the article says, regardless if it's through a rep or someone standing right there. The PA called it tobacco/hookah herb and handed it back to the OP and her husband. If it was questionable they would have kept it, in my opinion. That's what it says and that's what I'm going by.

 

Have a good night and again, hopefully we'll get solid info sometime soon. I think this is actually relevant and I'm grateful most everyone kept their cool as we discussed, or simply ignored those that couldn't do so. It makes for much nicer debate. ;)

 

You need to read the article and incident report again. And then Aquahound's posts on what can and cannot be proven by those tests :eek:

[johneeo]

Couldn't resisit .. one more time .. was not proven legal .. there is no such test .. and there are many reasons it could not be proven illegal .. official incident report only states it did not test positive for THC.

 

So, if they ran the same tests on a golf ball, a pair of shoes, or a box of rocks, the results would have been identical?

[d4nigirl]

Think I have posted this 3X on this thread now...but since you asked:

 

Synthetic cannabis is a psychoactive herbal and chemical product that, when consumed, allegedly mimics the effects of cannabis. It is best known by the brand names K2[1] and Spice,[2] both of which have largely become genericized trademarks used to refer to any synthetic cannabis product. (It is also for this reason that synthetic cannabis is often referred to as spice product, due to the latter.) A type of synthetic cannabis sold in Australasia is known as Kronic.

Research on the safety of synthetic cannabis is only now becoming available. Initial studies are focused on the role of synthetic cannabis and psychosis. It seems likely that synthetic cannabis can precipitate psychosis and in some cases it is prolonged. These studies suggest that synthetic cannabinoid intoxication is associated with acute psychosis, worsening of previously stable psychotic disorders, and also may have the ability to trigger a chronic (long-term) psychotic disorder among vulnerable individuals such as those with a family history of mental illness.[3][4]

When synthetic cannabis blends first went on sale in the early 2000s, it was thought that they achieved an effect through a mixture of legal herbs. Laboratory analysis in 2008 showed that this is not the case, and that they in fact contain synthetic cannabinoids that act on the body in a similar way to cannabinoids naturally found in cannabis, such as THC. A large and complex variety of synthetic cannabinoids, most often cannabicyclohexanol, JWH-018, JWH-073, or HU-210, are used in an attempt to avoid the laws that make cannabis illegal, making synthetic cannabis a designer drug. It has been sold under various brand names, online, in head shops, and at some gas stations.

It is often marketed as "herbal incense"; however, some brands market their products as "herbal smoking blends". In either case, the products are usually smoked by users. Although synthetic cannabis does not produce positive results in drug tests for cannabis, it is possible to detect its metabolites in human urine. The synthetic cannabinoids contained in synthetic cannabis products have been made illegal in many European countries. On November 24, 2010, the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration announced it would use emergency powers to ban many synthetic cannabinoids within a month.[5] Prior to the announcement, several US states had already made them illegal under state law. As of March 1, 2011, five cannabinoids, JWH-018, JWH-073, CP-47,497, JWH-200, and cannabicyclohexanol are now illegal in the US because these substances have the potential to be extremely harmful and, therefore, pose an imminent hazard to the public safety.[6][7]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_cannabis

 

I read it the other times too but I knew the synthetic cannabis as something else. I remember a local head shop selling it under a different name. It didn't click until now that it was the same thing. Salvia. But that's not synthetic, its an actual plant. I guess I was confusing the two.

Thanks for posting it again though to help me remember!

[time4u2go]

So, if they ran the same tests on a golf ball, a pair of shoes, or a box of rocks, the results would have been identical?

 

I thought about it in the same way. I didn't know people had to prove that what they brought on board was legal. I figured it was up to the cruise line or the port security to prove something was illegal if they felt there was a problem.

[ryano]

I just don't understand why given the way you feel about RCI why you would even cruise on one of their ships and give them your money???

 

Because maybe he likes their product? :confused:

 

One does not have to wave pom poms and agree with every single thing a cruise line does to enjoy the product they provide.

 

RCI customer service at their main office is atrocious most of the time and they do fail in many things and many ways. That doesnt mean they dont provide a good final product though. The experience they provide on their wonderful ships seems to be MUCH different than the experience they provide when you call Miami most of the time.

 

Besides I believe the OP posted way back that after his next RCI cruise he will be looking at other lines anyway

[aurelius180]

You are a very smart man and someone for which I have tremendous respect on these boards.

 

You saw the other thread...labeled something like "another couple booted." It was a couple kicked off the Majesty of the Seas with confirmed marijuana. They were not arrested. Often times, personal quantities of misdemeanor level drugs do not result in arrest. It just depends on the discretion of the officers involved.

 

Thanks Paul. I would have err on your side in instances like these anyway.

 

Finding a small amount of Spice/K2 in the false bottom of a hairspray can, in a dive bag and also in luggage out of the owner's possession for at least 3.5 hours would be fairly difficult to prosecute successfully. The LEO used his discretion as did the Captain.

[Aquahound]

I read it the other times too but I knew the synthetic cannabis as something else. I remember a local head shop selling it under s different name. It didn't click until now that it was the same thing.

Thanks for posting it again though to help me remember!

 

Yep! The packages were labeled NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION, and some were labeled as potpourri. Sad. :rolleyes: