Do you think Celebrity will implement a similar policy?

[CI66774]

BridgeMaven - it's only a no-no if its done outside of escrow. If it's done the right way as a credit then it's perfectly fine and it's not taxable to the buyer but just increases the cost basis of the home by the credit amount when it's sold. This info just is based upon my research and circumstances, of course.

[Bridge Maven]

BridgeMaven - it's only a no-no if its done outside of escrow. If it's done the right way as a credit then it's perfectly fine and it's not taxable to the buyer but just increases the cost basis of the home by the credit amount when it's sold. This info just is based upon my research and circumstances, of course.

 

CI - I agree with you. If a real estate agent pays expenses on behalf of the buyer and it is stated in the sales contract or an addendum to it, there is nothing wrong with it. That would also be clearly reflected in the closing statement. However, if a real estate agent secretly gives money to a buyer that is not reflected on the sales contract or closing statement for the real estate transaction, that agent is contributing to bank fraud.

[tallcva3344]

When the commision was reduced for TAs,there was a little drop in bookings. However this policy might backfire against CCL[ TAs may steer their customers away from CCL thus reducing gtheir bookings]. In my case, my TAs have either gone out of business or moved. I now do all my booking direct with the companies. Most lines make you get most information, make changes with the agent.

 

Most of your TA's could not compete with the rebating and therefore had a higher cost for the cruise than the on-line discounters that were working on volume. Therefore he is gone because his volume probably could not allow him to be in business if he discounted?

 

BTW, ever tried to call a computer on late Sat night for your Sun cruise with a problem. You may have been a better chance of getting help with the problem. Also if your cruise got cancelled and you were at the airport waiting to fly, wouldn't it be great to get a cell call from your local agent you had set down with and planned? H

[tallcva3344]

My gut feeling is that Royal Caribbean will probably follow suit in the near future for all the cruise lines they own, including Celebrity.

 

RCCL is already doing this more and more. They are having special promotions that offer onboard credits. I know at this time they are picking the cruises, but it is a start.

 

About four years ago RCCL issued a program similar to the Carnival program, in not allowing Travel agencies to rebate or give extra value to the cruise clients, or they would stop the discounters from future bookings. It did not hit the news like Carnival's did. I do not know if they dropped the requirements or have let them fade away. H

[Wayneair]

The cruise industry will eventually do what the airline industry did to travel agents...cut them out. In fact, the cruise industry at some point will likely charge you to call their reservation number. The cost of processing a transaction whether it’s with a travel agent (commissions) or with its reservation agents (salary and benefits) is expensive. The internet provides a low cost alternative to selling products and services. Yes, travel agents provide good insight when faced with making challenging vacation decisions, but as e-commerce continues to grow and the younger generation gets older, less people will use a travel agent or book over the telephone. I just hope the cruise industry does not get like the airlines and start up selling everything. In some cases, that has already started with the many Specialty Restaurants, Bars/ Lounges, some shows, and parts of the deck (Norwegian Cruise lines).

[Kellie Poodle]

I've read this board's comments and those on two other boards. A LOT of reading!

 

Here are my thoughts FWIW:

 

1) I think seasoned Carnival cruisers will be the first to "jump ship" to another line. Within, literally days, of reducing perks for their loyalty program, they now are taking away the one thing seasoned cruisers love most; OBC.

 

2) From a personal standpoint, I'd be highly insulted if I were a Carnival cruiser. Who are they to tell me that I will be confused by trying to shop for the best bargain?! It would make me less likely to want to cruise on one of their ships as they have now told the entire cruising public that the people who sail with Carnival are too stupid to shop for a bargain without getting hopelessly confused. ;)

 

4) I, like many here, "play the game" by purchasing certificates on a sailing for a future cruise then using those certificates to book while sailing on another cruise. Within the 60 day window, I "shop" for a TA who will offer me additional perks. OBC is MONEY IN MY POCKET and certainly worth the time, effort and planning.

 

5) I do believe the rule will impact the other cruise lines as TA's will be more likely to push Carnival cruises because they are getting the entire commission without kicking anything back for OBC or other perks.

 

Let's face it folks, those of us who are the "educated" cruiser are in the minority. Just look at how many people on your next cruise have never heard of Cruise Critic.

 

The majority of cruisers call their local travel agent and book what's recommended for their vacation schedule. And those who are a little more savvy will go online and book one with an online TA and never know that one cruise line will give them OBC and the other won't. They will look at the bottom line, which is the price and Carnival will still come out cheaper on many cruises without OBC/perks than RCI or Celebrity will with OBC/perks.

 

I think Carnival was pretty sharp about implementing this policy. Not only does it "level the playing field" between TAs, it gives the bigger TA's more of an incentive to push their line because of the higher commission.

 

6) Though I agree with the fact that land packages can be more economical than cruises, there are reasons that people choose one over the other. I, for one, hate living out of a suitcase and packing and repacking every other day. We also have medical needs that make cruising the most effective way for us to travel

[ORV]

Ever wonder exactly whose pocket those perks the TA's give actually come out of?

[D-Town]

Kellie:

A very thoughful anaylsis.

However, even if the itineraries and price were identical which ship and cruise line would you prefer?

Carnival or Celebrity S Class.

No real contest IMO..

XOXOXO

[Ma Bell]

CI - I agree with you. If a real estate agent pays expenses on behalf of the buyer and it is stated in the sales contract or an addendum to it, there is nothing wrong with it. That would also be clearly reflected in the closing statement. However, if a real estate agent secretly gives money to a buyer that is not reflected on the sales contract or closing statement for the real estate transaction, that agent is contributing to bank fraud.

 

This is really far fetched.

[Bridge Maven]

Ma Bell - Let me try to explain this to you another way. A bank determines loan to value ratio based on sales price or appraised value, whichever is lower. So if a real estate agent helps a buyer to get a higher mortgage by misrepresenting the actual sales price, they have contributed to bank fraud. That is why it is illegal for a real estate agent to secretly give a kick back to a buyer.

[Ma Bell]

Thanks for explaining it to me. I've been a real estate broker for 43 years. According to your example, the real estate agent would have to give the buyer the money before he is paid his commission since it would not be received until the escrow closes. The price of the property would be the same whether the money came from the buyer or the agent. The problem would be one of disclosure and possible tax consequences, not mortgage fraud.

[Bridge Maven]

Thanks for explaining it to me. I've been a real estate broker for 43 years.

 

 

How could a licensed real estate broker not know it was illegal (rhetorical question only)

[Ma Bell]

I said it was far fetched, not legal. Why do you think an agent would do something like this? He is able to help the buyer by disclosing it and making it part of the escrow. What you are describing makes no sense.

[Bridge Maven]

I said it was far fetched, not legal. Why do you think an agent would do something like this? He is able to help the buyer by disclosing it and making it part of the escrow. What you are describing makes no sense.

 

A number of people on this thread posted that if a real estate agent wants to give part of their commission "secretly" to a buyer, it is nobody else's business and should be a "private matter" between the buyer and the real estate agent. I was responding to those posts from people who didn't appear to know that it is illegal to do that.

[Kellie Poodle]

Kellie:

A very thoughful anaylsis.

However, even if the itineraries and price were identical which ship and cruise line would you prefer?

Carnival or Celebrity S Class.

No real contest IMO..

XOXOXO

 

 

Aside from river cruises, we only sail with Celebrity and Royal Caribbean.

[SusieV]

I wonder if Celebrity does pass this, will it apply to every booking after a certain date, or if you have older Passages certificates, will TAs still be allowed to give OBC on those since the booking predates the policy change?

[Bridge Maven]

I think any travel agent who is currently using the business model of giving large monetary incentives, such as on board credits, to attract customers should be proactive about reinventing themselves before it is too late.

[Solstice23]

If you did this.....you just eliminated 50% to 60% of your available clients .......who choose to travel on Carnival ......regardless of how the agent feels.

 

Actually Carnival has not been great trade support no brochures etc where as the other lines support the trade very well.

 

Been in the Industry almost 8 years and I have possibly booked clients on carnival 25 times ? Yet I am very successful and focus on my circle of influence and referrals none of which are drawn to Carnival

[Roland4]

Ever wonder exactly whose pocket those perks the TA's give actually come out of?

 

After wading through this thread, I would guess most people think it comes from the Good Fairy. Here is the reality, it comes out of the TA's pocket.

 

People look at a $1000/person cruise fare and figure 2 x $1000 @ 15%, the TA earns $300. Except the Port Charges and Taxes are not commissionable, so take $300/person off the top and that commission is now $210. Before any expenses and any allowance for income taxes, so lets allow 30% to cover those items and the agent now has $147 left. And from that you want a $100 OBC and pre-paid gratuities??

[trixiegolf]

After wading through this thread, I would guess most people think it comes from the Good Fairy. Here is the reality, it comes out of the TA's pocket.

 

People look at a $1000/person cruise fare and figure 2 x $1000 @ 15%, the TA earns $300. Except the Port Charges and Taxes are not commissionable, so take $300/person off the top and that commission is now $210. Before any expenses and any allowance for income taxes, so lets allow 30% to cover those items and the agent now has $147 left. And from that you want a $100 OBC and pre-paid gratuities??

 

Most agencies only get between 10%-12% commission.

[Moeve]

Most agencies only get between 10%-12% commission.

 

or even less.....

[Bridge Maven]

Most agencies only get between 10%-12% commission.

 

trixie golf - that is why I could never understand how so many posters get OBCs that are so high. I am assuming that these travel agents that give them are working on a very small profit margin per customer, and make up the difference in volume.

[ORV]

After wading through this thread, I would guess most people think it comes from the Good Fairy. Here is the reality, it comes out of the TA's pocket.

 

People look at a $1000/person cruise fare and figure 2 x $1000 @ 15%, the TA earns $300. Except the Port Charges and Taxes are not commissionable, so take $300/person off the top and that commission is now $210. Before any expenses and any allowance for income taxes, so lets allow 30% to cover those items and the agent now has $147 left. And from that you want a $100 OBC and pre-paid gratuities??

 

trixie golf - that is why I could never understand how so many posters get OBCs that are so high. I am assuming that these travel agents that give them are working on a very small profit margin per customer, and make up the difference in volume.

 

That was my point, I don't believe they all come out of the TA's pocket, simple math would tell you they couldn't stay in business for long if it did. I think much of it comes from the cruise line, in one way or another. Could be another reason for Carnivals action.

[trixiegolf]

It's true that some cruise lines offer extra incentives to travel agents. But instead of putting that cash into their agency pockets, they pass it along to clients. Of course, not all agencies are able to do that. That's why some agencies advertise their quality of service instead of OBC.

[CoachT]

Most agencies only get between 10%-12% commission.

Correct. And most people don't know how much of that advertised fare BEFORE taxes and fees is considered a non-commissionable portion of the fare.

 

I know that one of the bigger online agencies has a profit margin of 3% or less on every booking. They make it on on volume pure and simple.