Fascination Man Overboard 8-27-12? (MERGED THREADS)

[tattoos]

Excuse me, I have more than 35 cruises under my belt and have been on a lot of cruises that were re-routed and ports cancelled due to mechanical problems/storms. Our ship was stuck overnight in San Juan because of mechanical problems (love San Juan and was happy to spend more time there)...our call in St. Martin was cancelled another time due to a storm (another sea day is o.k. with me), I rode out Hurricane Wilma on the Fascination in 2006, they closed the Port of Miami and the ship sailed around in circles until the Port was re-opened which was o.k. with me, two additional days on the ship.

 

Making accusation that you know nothing about is very childish.

[travler27]

I don't know that they get a "pass". It's quite striking to see a vet, 15 years post war experience, hear a noise and hit the floor so fast it makes your head spin because he thought it was incomming helicopters.

 

I understand that and know it happens. However, for everyone who "hit the floor" there are thousands who don't. But when something happens, like jumping off a cruise ship, folks are quick to blame "PTSD". Statistically, that's not very likely the cause. Heavy drinking and "stupid" is a whole lot more common.

[JUGGER]

sad, a jumper. It's like the people who throw themselves in front of trains...why must they make everyone else suffer too?! Im sure this is very hard on the captain and crew, and the mans family. There must be a lot of anger there as well as the depression.

hi--we read about the passenger--who jumped--and still sadly---he was a sgt---in the army--just completed his 3rd tour of duty---he was depressed---something should be done to help our military--as they are gibing their all for us------irene and john joyce

[JUGGER]

Could it have been the food on CarnivAL----JOE---DON'T BE REDICULOUS----THIS WAS A SGT --ARMY--WHO HAD JUST COMPLETED HIS 3RD TOUR OF DUTY------VERY SAD----IRENE AND JOHN-(RETIRED MILITARY) IRENE AND JOHN------SO JOE----INVESTIGATE BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR STUPID MOUTH

[klmorg]

We have no idea if he was depressed, or if he was trying to get away security, grabbed a life ring & jumped, as has been reported. And as has also been reported, it is a bit odd that security was even around at 2am on the Lido deck unless there was a reason, not saying they're never around, just saying.....

 

What was really going on is all speculation at this point. Regardless, it is extremely sad for all involved.:(

[halos]

I really get tired of folks giving military people a "pass" simply because they might suffer from PTSD. I don't know how much military service you have or how much combat you've seen but I've been involved in my share and I think PTSD is an excuse that has really been worn out. I know it happens but feel it is much more rare than Hollywood and the news media would have you believe. It seems now days whenever someone in the military does anything wrong everybody wants to blame PTSD when "stupid" or "drunk and crazy" might be the more likely cause.

 

I have absolutely NO military background but I find your post to not coincide with plain old common sense.

It seems to me that it's against human nature to kill. If you are in active combat shooting away at people, or watching people get blown away no matter how much a threat those people are, it seems to reason that it would screw with your head. You don't need to be brilliant or even of average intelligence to see this.

 

Post traumatic stress occurs with simple things. I once pulled into the garage and didn't see my dog and literally hit him with my car. He was fine..I was not. For two solid years, I got nauseous every time I pulled into my garage. I will hear that 'thump' noise forever in my head.

That is only small PTS.

I once slid down my stairs and for a couple weeks cringed inside every time I went down them recalling how much that hurt like hell...small PTS.

I imagine being in real combat would screw up even the most strong minded person because what one does during combat goes against their soul. I cannot believe that it's rare. I am sure there are varying degrees but I imagine everyone who sees horrors experiences it...EVERY one.

[sarahleebones]

I have absolutely NO military background but I find your post to not coincide with plain old common sense.

It seems to me that it's against human nature to kill. If you are in active combat shooting away at people, or watching people get blown away no matter how much a threat those people are, it seems to reason that it would screw with your head. You don't need to be brilliant or even of average intelligence to see this.

 

Post traumatic stress occurs with simple things. I once pulled into the garage and didn't see my dog and literally hit him with my car. He was fine..I was not. For two solid years, I got nauseous every time I pulled into my garage. I will hear that 'thump' noise forever in my head.

That is only small PTS.

I once slid down my stairs and for a couple weeks cringed inside every time I went down them recalling how much that hurt like hell...small PTS.

I imagine being in real combat would screw up even the most strong minded person because what one does during combat goes against their soul. I cannot believe that it's rare. I am sure there are varying degrees but I imagine everyone who sees horrors experiences it...EVERY one.

 

OMG - how horrific! I can't even imagine. I'm so sorry!

[cjdixon4]

It doesn' really matter what the cause... a man died... his family is suffering... and people are actually saying.. the ones they feel sorry for are those that missed their port?? Really?? If I was on that ship, the last thing I would be thinking is... damn, we missed our port! I would instead be thinking of this man and wondering what happened that caused the end of his life? And I would be wondering... how sad his family must be.. did he have children?

For those that say it is stupid to feel sadness for the loss of a STRANGER.. did you not feel sadness on the tradgedy of 911?? I didn't know a soul that lost their life that day... but I was on a cruise... on an island... Antigua... when I heard the news... even the islanders were feeling the sadness... stopping us and asking us if we were from America... when we said yes we are, their eyes would tear up and they would say ... I am so sorry to hear about your country mon. Yes... totally totally strangers... and still had hearts. On the ship, at dinner, when our maitre d said "We represent 47 different countries, but today we are all Americans"... when the waiters sang "God Bless America" and EVERYONE in the dining room was standing and singing with them... and everyone in that room had tears flowing... Some had family in those towers... we didn't know them... but we cried for them and all of those other STRANGERS that lost their lives...

We all have our cruise memories, and this is one that touched my heart and will always be in my heart... such a warm feeling of everyone trying to support each other in the time of grief... and feeling the love for our country and family and friends...

Where do people find such cold hearts as some on this thread? it is so sad to see...

 

Well put, cruzn buckeye; the world needs more folks just like you. Oh and, wishing your mom continued good health....thanks for sharing her story!

[tommycanuck]

Could it have been the food on CarnivAL----JOE---DON'T BE REDICULOUS----THIS WAS A SGT --ARMY--WHO HAD JUST COMPLETED HIS 3RD TOUR OF DUTY------VERY SAD----IRENE AND JOHN-(RETIRED MILITARY) IRENE AND JOHN------SO JOE----INVESTIGATE BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR STUPID MOUTH

 

And anyway, army chow has to be better than the slop dished out by Carnival

[halos]

OMG - how horrific! I can't even imagine. I'm so sorry!

Thank you.

 

That happened about 11 years ago...That dog passed away 7 years ago (from cancer) and just recounting that story made me feel ill. He wasn't even hurt when it happened. I took him to the vet, had him totally checked and he was fine (miracle...) but I will never forget it. If that isn't PTS, I don't know what is.

I can't even IMAGINE having a gun in my hands and shooting at people, or being shot AT.

Saying there is no such thing as PTS syndrome...or even that it's rare is just insanity.

 

And it matters none if this was PTS or not...the guy who jumped was obviously NOT of a healthy mind. Does it matter what he suffered from??? Bottom line is he wasn't mentally healthy. No one who does somethign liek this is. If he drank himself to the point where he did somethign this insane, it still points to him being in a mental place where he woudl drink himself to that point.

[Aquahound]

I've been careful to avoid the side arguments here, but I will comment briefly on PTSD, formerly called Shell Shock. It is very real. Unfortunately, the tough attitudes of military members tend to mask it, so we do not know who all suffers from it.

 

Halos made an excellent point about minor cases, which in no way scales up to what these men and women endure overseas.

 

That said, I am not jumping to any conclusions here. I am not saying he suffered PTSD. His mindset and psyche is unknown to me.

[jonbgd]

 

And anyway, army chow has to be better than the slop dished out by Carnival

when was the last time you had MRE's:rolleyes:

 

BTW its the Airforce with all the good chow:p

[aurelius180]

Cruise Critic is finally on the case and they have some interesting information...

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4965

[gliner]

when was the last time you had MRE's:rolleyes:

 

BTW its the Airforce with all the good chow:p

 

Best USAF dining facility? Nellis AFB. The cooks receive continual training from the chefs from the hotels on the Las Vegas strip.

[hbrote]

I have absolutely NO military background but I find your post to not coincide with plain old common sense.

It seems to me that it's against human nature to kill.

 

I'll will disagree with you on that point. When you are the target, they are trying to kill, you will kill, it is human nature.

 

Hank

[tahqa]

Cruise Critic is finally on the case and they have some interesting information...

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4965

 

*Sigh* While I will empathize with the family of this poor man for their loss I still assert that this was an act of idiocy. :(

[aurelius180]

*Sigh* While I will empathize with the family of this poor man for their loss I still assert that this was an act of idiocy. :(

 

 

It would certainly appear that way...

 

Paul- Can you provide any more insight on the altercation and perhaps why he went to such great lengths to "escape." :confused:

[Ocean Boy]

Cruise Critic is finally on the case and they have some interesting information...

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4965

 

Interesting to see this play out.

[bunker1706]

It doesn' really matter what the cause... a man died... his family is suffering... and people are actually saying.. the ones they feel sorry for are those that missed their port?? Really?? If I was on that ship, the last thing I would be thinking is... damn, we missed our port! I would instead be thinking of this man and wondering what happened that caused the end of his life? And I would be wondering... how sad his family must be.. did he have children?

For those that say it is stupid to feel sadness for the loss of a STRANGER.. did you not feel sadness on the tradgedy of 911?? I didn't know a soul that lost their life that day... but I was on a cruise... on an island... Antigua... when I heard the news... even the islanders were feeling the sadness... stopping us and asking us if we were from America... when we said yes we are, their eyes would tear up and they would say ... I am so sorry to hear about your country mon. Yes... totally totally strangers... and still had hearts. On the ship, at dinner, when our maitre d said "We represent 47 different countries, but today we are all Americans"... when the waiters sang "God Bless America" and EVERYONE in the dining room was standing and singing with them... and everyone in that room had tears flowing... Some had family in those towers... we didn't know them... but we cried for them and all of those other STRANGERS that lost their lives...

We all have our cruise memories, and this is one that touched my heart and will always be in my heart... such a warm feeling of everyone trying to support each other in the time of grief... and feeling the love for our country and family and friends...

Where do people find such cold hearts as some on this thread? it is so sad to see...

 

Your post gave me chills and brought tears to my eyes. It is very touching. I do agree with you as far as feeling sadness for strangers, especially from 9/11. However, the victims of 9/11 were not responsible for what happened, which makes it that much more sad and I find myself feeling more empathetic towards the victims and their families. Now, I'm not saying that the guy who jumped overboard is not a terrible thing to happen, but no one pushed him overboard. He jumped on his own. (And of course, this is was is being reported now). Things must have been pretty bad to do that. A sober person or someone in his/her right mind wouldn't jump. The point of all of this is I believe we tend to be more empathetic towards people when it wasn't self inflicted. I hope my thoughts came across they way I intended them to. However, I'm sure there are a few out there who are ready to flame me.

[jonbgd]

Best USAF dining facility? Nellis AFB. The cooks receive continual training from the chefs from the hotels on the Las Vegas strip.

Havnt been to Nellis but have been to a few others and the chow was as good as some SF restaurants.

 

We had some good spoons but the food choices were definately lacking.

[Aquahound]

Paul- Can you provide any more insight on the altercation and perhaps why he went to such great lengths to "escape." :confused:

 

Yes, I could. But I'm going to wait just a little bit until I see the info officially released by either the cruise line or officials, rather than a source.

 

I'm not refuting any of that info though.

[jonbgd]

Cruise Critic is finally on the case and they have some interesting information...

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4965

Oh........ WOW:eek:

 

Paul did say it was going to be interesting story

[aurelius180]

Yes, I could. But I'm going to wait just a little bit until I see the info officially released by either the cruise line or officials, rather than a source.

 

I'm not refuting any of that info though.

 

 

I guess you were right when you said it was pretty crazy.

 

Edit: Would Carnival actually issue an official statement on the circumstances or, as you previously linked to Cruise Law, would they leave it as a person jumped overboard?

[bunker1706]

Cruise Critic is finally on the case and they have some interesting information...

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4965

 

Wow! Why would anyone jump overboard and risk death over just getting caught and dealing with the consequences?

[gliner]

Havnt been to Nellis but have been to a few others and the chow was as good as some SF restaurants.

 

We had some good spoons but the food choices were definately lacking.

 

If you have ever eaten at an Army post in the Middle East, you will appreciate anything that any cruise line has to offer.

 

Being served chicken and rice, or beef and rice every day for 90 days by a Bangladeshi server being paid $2 a day will set some of the strongest among us off.

 

Prisoners in our worst prisons are fed better.

 

The second cut steaks marinated in lighter fluid once a week were always something to look forward to.

 

Oh the memories of gastrointestinal torture. They do make me wonder how we survived sometimes.