Baseball caps on formal nights?

[6andy6]

This is an observation not a criticism.

 

We have just come back from a cruise on the Grand Princess and we totally amazed that some American men were wearing baseball caps in the dining rooms on formal nights. We were brought up that a man wearing a hat indoors was bad manners, is this the same in the US?

 

When was that 30,40,50,60 years ago. Times (and fashions) change. Woman in the 1880's also didn't show ankles and bathed in the sea in full dresses.....should we go back to that as well?

 

However, having said all that...a baseball cap on formal night is taking things a little too far for me as well and is very tacky ( and Im only 46). BUT I don't have a problem with people wearing them inside in other circumstances......

[6andy6]

Yes, OP, it is the same in the U.S.: it is still considered bad manners for a man to wear a hat at the dining table. Some of us still care about etiquette and manners. Some don't.

 

Do you still curtesy when meeting a woman?

 

Or if you are indeed a woman, do you let a man make all the decisions and decide important things for you. Is your 'formal night' outfit a top hat and tails with a cane? Or white gloves and a pillbox hat. After all this was all etiquette and manners at one stage ( in the last example only 40 years ago).....or is it only select as it suits you?

[rcacace]

dd's boy friend has a ball cap fetish and for now I endure.

 

BUT if he plans to get beyond BF on my plate, he'll learn manners.

 

No hats in doors (military exeptions noted)

 

NO NO NO hats at the meal table .... NO exceptions

 

Wow, are you in for a rough ride in years to come.

 

Agree with you 100%. On the cruiseline we sail hats are simply not permitted in any dining venue. Traditional head coverings worn for religious reasons would be an exception.

 

The problem is that any person can claim their hat (even a base ball hat) is worn for religious reasons & there wouldn't be a single head waiter or Maitre D' that would argue with that.

[ShakyBeef]

Do you still curtesy when meeting a woman?

 

Or if you are indeed a woman, do you let a man make all the decisions and decide important things for you. Is your 'formal night' outfit a top hat and tails with a cane? Or white gloves and a pillbox hat. After all this was all etiquette and manners at one stage ( in the last example only 40 years ago).....or is it only select as it suits you?

 

...However, having said all that...a baseball cap on formal night is taking things a little too far for me as well and is very tacky...

 

I realize you are being facetious, but I'll answer as if you are serious, because I hate to assume that you are being argumentative just for the sake of being difficult, as it so appears from your two posts in conjunction.

 

No, I don't curtsey when meeting another lady (and yes, I am a lady). I shake hands, because that is what is appropriate for modern etiquette. No, I do not let a man make all the decisions and decide important things for me. That is not etiquette. No, I don't wear the fashion examples you gave. Fashion and etiquette are not the same thing, by the way;). Although it's very interesting to talk about what was etiquette and manners in different eras, what you cited are obviously not examples of modern etiquette.

 

Yes, times change and fashion changes and society changes. And etiquette changes. But etiquette still exists and is still practiced by those that care to. Bringing up now defunct "rules" of the past negates neither the existence nor the merit of today's "rules". What I posted (and you quoted) in answer to the OP's question is still true: In the U.S., it is still considered bad manners for a man to wear a hat at the dining table. Maybe someday this will change and go the way of your cited examples of fashion and etiquette. But for now it is still the case. Do we really want to rush towards the day when having good manners and consideration for those around us in social situations is considered archaic and unnecessary? I, for one, do not.

[Delta Hotel]

Do you still curtesy when meeting a woman?

 

Or if you are indeed a woman, do you let a man make all the decisions and decide important things for you. Is your 'formal night' outfit a top hat and tails with a cane? Or white gloves and a pillbox hat. After all this was all etiquette and manners at one stage ( in the last example only 40 years ago).....or is it only select as it suits you?

 

Just curious here... but do you still say "please" and "thank you"? These are incredibly old-fashioned and archaic practices of etiquette. Do you belch and pass gas whenever and where ever you please regardless of your company or situation? Do you use forks and knives or do you just dig into your dinner with your fingers and hands? After all, these are all extremely old versions of basic etiquette.

 

Men not wearing hats at the dinner table is also incredibly old, and therefore should go away with all of these other little "rules", too... right?

 

On a completely unrelated, and lighter note - I heard on the news that primates are learning to use computers. Amazing stuff...

[BeagleOne]

If a person sat down at our table with any form of headgear that was out of place with no expanation,I would go to the Matre'd and ask him to sort it out. Far better than to sit with a person all week with a hat on, for what would seem to us no good reason.

 

john

 

Really? You wouldn't attempt to talk to your tablemate first? What if they find part of YOUR outfit objectionable? Would you rather they talked to you first, or just went scurrying to the maitre-d'?

 

Baseball caps don't belong in a nice restaurant unless the wearer has a medical condition. Backward baseball caps don't belong anywhere.

 

Ozgeordielass, I hope you and your entire family have a WONDERFUL time on your cruise, and that you can relax and recharge.

[mr green]

Yep, you're just nosey.:p

 

Not at all, I am quite mild when it comes to good manners, however under the circumstances, I honestly believe that, without an expanation from someone my wife would get up and leave, requesting a different table.

In our group one gentleman always wares a baseball cap, and sun glasses,his eyes are light sensitive and everyone understands.

 

 

john

[mr green]

Really? You wouldn't attempt to talk to your tablemate first? What if they find part of YOUR outfit objectionable? Would you rather they talked to you first, or just went scurrying to the maitre-d'?

 

Baseball caps don't belong in a nice restaurant unless the wearer has a medical condition. Backward baseball caps don't belong anywhere.

 

Ozgeordielass, I hope you and your entire family have a WONDERFUL time on your cruise, and that you can relax and recharge.

 

It is not up to myself or my wife to raise the subject. IMO we should be informed when we first introduce ourselves, or can't you agree to this simple formality?

 

john

[luddite]

Let's be clear about this. Is a baseball cap a baseball cap or is it something else if worn for religious reasons? How are others to know?

 

Even Cubs fans don't consider a ball-cap a religious thing.

[iheartbda]

Not at all, I am quite mild when it comes to good manners, however under the circumstances, I honestly believe that, without an expanation from someone my wife would get up and leave, requesting a different table.

In our group one gentleman always wares a baseball cap, and sun glasses,his eyes are light sensitive and everyone understands.

 

 

john

 

Oh my, now THAT would be rude and uncalled for.

 

I feel like a broken record here but I will say it ONE MORE TIME. ;)

For someone with a real medical need, and in MR. Oz's case, in a wheelchair to boot, it is most times painfully obvious why they are wearing a baseball cap. They are bald, or have scraggly hair growing back, no eyelashes, etc. Maybe a person just wants to forget about their condition for a change, feel "normal" like everyone else, and not have to explain anything. I guess we are different because I for one, would not expect an explanation from someone who had an apparent medical need.

 

Now, if the cruiseline you are on has a specific, No Baseball Cap rule in the MDR, it is perfectly acceptable to mention quietly, without making any kind of fuss, to the maitre'd that you would appreciate the rule being enforced. AGAIN this being for someone who had no obvious need but, that too can be a slippery slope.

 

Truth be told, we have never had a tablemate wearing a baseball cap and I can't say I even noticed anyone wearing one in the MDR, not that I was on a hunt for them.:) There was one time on Celebrity when there was a fellow wearing one at the next table and the waiter quietly asked him to remove it.

[Capt_BJ]

When you explin to the kid that you're a shellback and what it took to become one, he certainly won't tempt fate by wearing a hat at your table. Good for you. Thanks for doing what you did.

 

BTW, what did you drive?

 

for my Pacific tour, where I earned the badge, a Coast Guard High Endurance Cutter, Hamilton class, 378 foot, 36,000 shaft HP, top speed approaching 30 knots. USCGC MUNRO, now homeported in Kodiak, but sailing from Alameda CA when I was sitting in the chair.

 

He already knows . . but I've been cutting a little slack cuz for now he's just a serious BF

 

to cross the bar, the manners WILL come up

[mr green]

Oh my, now THAT would be rude and uncalled for.

 

I feel like a broken record here but I will say it ONE MORE TIME. ;)

For someone with a real medical need, and in MR. Oz's case, in a wheelchair to boot, it is most times painfully obvious why they are wearing a baseball cap. They are bald, or have scraggly hair growing back, no eyelashes, etc. Maybe a person just wants to forget about their condition for a change, feel "normal" like everyone else, and not have to explain anything. I guess we are different because I for one, would not expect an explanation from someone who had an apparent medical need.

 

That case speaks for itself. No Problem.

It is I who would appear to be a broken record. As I keep saying, simple explaination with introduction at the start of the meal solves everything, Don't you agree?

 

john

[iheartbda]

That case speaks for itself. No Problem.

It is I who would appear to be a broken record. As I keep saying, simple explaination with introduction at the start of the meal solves everything, Don't you agree?

 

john

Sorry, no. Do not feel an explanation is necessary.;)

[Porthopper101]

For the Chinese, it is absolutely proper to wear a hat indoors while dining. Many other cultures also.

 

I do not know about other culture, but my mother is Vietnamese, and she would never allow me to wear a baseball hat at dinner or in the house.

 

The Houston restaurants in Los Angeles area do not allow hat inside. I like that.

 

M

[luddite]

for my Pacific tour, where I earned the badge, a Coast Guard High Endurance Cutter, Hamilton class, 378 foot, 36,000 shaft HP, top speed approaching 30 knots. USCGC MUNRO, now homeported in Kodiak, but sailing from Alameda CA when I was sitting in the chair.

 

He already knows . . but I've been cutting a little slack cuz for now he's just a serious BF

 

to cross the bar, the manners WILL come up

 

Nice.

[mr green]

Sorry, no. Do not feel an explanation is necessary.;)

 

Why not put your fellow diners at ease.

 

john

[dave_k63]

We saw caps and even t-shirts in the MDR on "elegant night". I blame the cruise ship for not enforcing it. And I also blame the "it's my vacation and I'll do what I want" mentality that seems to be so prevalent lately.

[iheartbda]

Why not put your fellow diners at ease.

 

john

What is there to be ill at ease about? Does some type of handicap or medical condition cause you to be uncomfortable?

[mr green]

What is there to be ill at ease about? Does some type of handicap or medical condition cause you to be uncomfortable?

 

You have the wrong end of the stick.

What I am saying is this. A normal looking person arrives at dinner in the MDR wearing some form of headgear. My wife and I would want to know if it was for a medical reason, or, just being plain rude.

That is all I have ever been trying to say, and,if you look at the first posts, you should note that it was I who first said that there was nothing wrong with headgear on formal nights if worn for a medical reason.

This would never make me 'uncomfortable' as you suggest, however any other use, unless for military, or religious reasons I would consider rude to the extreme.

NOW. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH???

 

john

[PRWeezer]

You have the wrong end of the stick.

What I am saying is this. A normal looking person arrives at dinner in the MDR wearing some form of headgear. My wife and I would want to know if it was for a medical reason, or, just being plain rude.

That is all I have ever been trying to say, and,if you look at the first posts, you should note that it was I who first said that there was nothing wrong with headgear on formal nights if worn for a medical reason.

This would never make me 'uncomfortable' as you suggest, however any other use, unless for military, or religious reasons I would consider rude to the extreme.

NOW. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH???

 

john

 

Similar to MrOz my Father had a significant scar on his head from melanoma surgery & he often wore hats. In all honesty I can't recall if he wore them in 'finer' restaurants, but I know for sure he did in more casual establishments.

 

The only person he ever gave an explanation to was his parish Priest because he wanted to keep his head covered during Mass. He was self conscious about it and certainly would not have discussed his condition with a stranger nor would he give a hoot if it made someone else "uncomfortable". He didn't "look sick" and IMHO he owed nobody an explanation. In fact, he would have considered it the height of rudeness had someone called him out for it or tattled on him to a Maitre'd or other personnel.

 

Look at it from the other side. Let's suppose you had come across my Father in a situation where you felt his head being covered was inappropriate & you reported it. How would you & your wife feel if someone had approached him, asked him to remove his hat, and his scar were revealed? I would hope you would be just as embarrassed as the person you forced into that position.

 

I liken this attitude with people who would make comments to my "normal-looking" friend when she would pull her convertible into a handicapped parking space...the look on their faces when she would open the door & begin to re-assemble her wheelchair was priceless. :eek:

 

With all due respect, sometimes the best course of action is to mind your own business.

[Laurie S.]

I'm bothered a whole lot more by tablemates who are, for example, real estate brokers, insurance salesmen, investment brokers, etc., who pester you (or brag) throughout the dinner than a guy wearing a baseball cap on his head. Although I might not like seeing someone with a cap on at the table, it sure as heck isn't going to damage my dining experience.

[CELTICGIRLCRUISER]

I'm bothered a whole lot more by tablemates who are, for example, real estate brokers, insurance salesmen, investment brokers, etc., who pester you (or brag) throughout the dinner than a guy wearing a baseball cap on his head. Although I might not like seeing someone with a cap on at the table, it sure as heck isn't going to damage my dining experience.

 

Now that is a whole other thread:D

[mr green]

Similar to MrOz my Father had a significant scar on his head from melanoma surgery & he often wore hats. In all honesty I can't recall if he wore them in 'finer' restaurants, but I know for sure he did in more casual establishments.

 

The only person he ever gave an explanation to was his parish Priest because he wanted to keep his head covered during Mass. He was self conscious about it and certainly would not have discussed his condition with a stranger nor would he give a hoot if it made someone else "uncomfortable". He didn't "look sick" and IMHO he owed nobody an explanation. In fact, he would have considered it the height of rudeness had someone called him out for it or tattled on him to a Maitre'd or other personnel.

 

Look at it from the other side. Let's suppose you had come across my Father in a situation where you felt his head being covered was inappropriate & you reported it. How would you & your wife feel if someone had approached him, asked him to remove his hat, and his scar were revealed? I would hope you would be just as embarrassed as the person you forced into that position.

 

I liken this attitude with people who would make comments to my "normal-looking" friend when she would pull her convertible into a handicapped parking space...the look on their faces when she would open the door & begin to re-assemble her wheelchair was priceless. :eek:

 

With all due respect, sometimes the best course of action is to mind your own business.

 

You seem fixated on one case, I, of the intent why a piece of headgear should, or should not be worn by anyone. I can see that we are poles apart.

 

john

[PRWeezer]

You seem fixated on one case, I, of the intent why a piece of headgear should, or should not be worn by anyone. I can see that we are poles apart.

 

john

 

I will agree with you there. I'm fixated on the thought of a complete stranger passing judgment and embarrassing a family member. Beyond my loved ones, the idea of that happening to anyone in polite society breaks my heart.

[Travelcat2]

Do you still curtesy when meeting a woman?

 

Or if you are indeed a woman, do you let a man make all the decisions and decide important things for you. Is your 'formal night' outfit a top hat and tails with a cane? Or white gloves and a pillbox hat. After all this was all etiquette and manners at one stage ( in the last example only 40 years ago).....or is it only select as it suits you?

 

Manners never go out of style. I am puzzled by this post since top hats, canes, white gloves, pillbox hats and allowing men to make all the decisions have absolutely nothing to do with manners.

 

I did get quite a chuckle after reading the first sentence. Women curtsy -- not men. They bow at the waist. While not done much nowadays, I cannot imagine anyone being criticized for doing this. Some men still kiss the hands of women ..... such a nice touch.