Holland leaving San Diego

[startwin]

San Diego itself is absolutely lovely, but unfortunately we didn't get to see too much of it. Because of the fiasco in port with customs, as in-transit passengers we were not able to get off the ship until after noon, and had to be back for 5 pm sailing. I did notice the aggressiveness of some port employees - yelling at passengers with absolutely no respect whatsoever - but in fairness I've witnessed that in Vancouver, too:( I was on our port-side balcony for most of the morning watching all that was going on.

 

There was lots of conversation on the ship about the situation in San Diego before we arrived there, and special disembarkation instructions because of the lack of customs officers and lack of co-operation. So many people had to change flight arrangements.

 

As for HAL moving away from there, I admit I'm biased because it's so difficult for me to get there from here. We had decided to come back to San Diego and spend a week there, but now we can't get direct flights we won't be doing so.

[jaspersmycat]

I found that the "painful" part of disembarkation is the long wait for the last non-US family to report to immigration before anyone can disembark. Once off the ship going through customs/immigration has been quick.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I have sailed out of San Diego on HAL more time than I can mentally count without pulling up all my sailings the very first time was November 2004. I was still fairly new to cruising and HAL with just a few sailings under our belt. I do honestly believe that back then things were far better in San Diego. Sadly over the years I have seen it continue to get worse especially for disembarkation. This is all very unfortunate because with San Diego having such a close airport and the city itself being quite nice and beautiful cruising industry could have grown big for San Diego.

 

I agree that cruise lines giving the excuse about Mexico was just that "an excuse" but this was just one of several reasons why cruise lines pulled out of doing so many West Coast Mexico cruises the biggest being on board spending and revenue for the cruise lines.

 

I have taken several cruises out of San Pedro and visited the Long Beach terminal twice when visiting Carnival ships and I will say that the process is drastically smoother with far less hassle out of both of these ports.

 

But Caution!!!!! the Wheels (or should I say Azipods ;) ) of Holland America Move SLOW. I seriously doubt any time in the immediate future they will be leaving San Diego. I also definitely do not doubt it is in the works. The earliest I see this change happening might be Fall sailings in 2013 but more than likely this will not happen till 2014.

 

There are several scenerios to consider, first this year we have Zaandam on the West Coast but next year in Fall 2013 we have the Veendam (that in itself tells us what they think of the West Coast :rolleyes: ). Not that I have been told a thing which I have not but who knows maybe HAL already knows they are getting rid of Veendam and will just cancel those sailings :confused:

 

Another thing to look at is that while HAL is trying to pull away from the West Coast, Princess is actually ramping up their sailings for the West Coast with more Princess ships than they have had in many years that will Home Port in both San Pedro and San Francisco. Princess is even starting Oct thru April 3 and 4 day cruises all make a stop in Ensenada but some are Coastals while others go to Catalina. And interestingly enough they are starting to sell strong for late 2013. I personally think this will hurt Carnival a bit because sailing the Sapphire is definitely nicer than the much older Inspriation.

 

Unless HAL makes an announcement soon I would not be expecting any quick changes, my guess is that it is in the threatening stage. And HAL has every right to threaten, HAL has brought lots of tourism to San Diego over the past decade and it is quite unfortunate that the power that be that control this problem in San Diego has not stepped up to correct matters.

[PathfinderEss]

Well if they are leaving SD it certainly won't be soon as the cruise books have them going to SD well into 2014. I've cruised out of San Pedro many times and its really no better then SD, in fact it is in a very ugly industrial area. Sailing in and out of SD is much more attractive then San Pedro.

All of California's cruise ports are old and in decay. For some reason we don't want to do any improving of them. Certainly we don't want to encourage any income growth like Florida. We are driving many, many businesses out of here because of our ridiculous rules and taxes. Pretty much California is just becoming a big welfare state and if they keep it up there won't be anyone here to pay the bill. Ok off my soap box now.

 

[Copper10-8]

I love that little shopping area and easteries at San Pedro if I'm thinking of the right place. Been a few years since I was last there. It's also a lot easier to fly there on a non-stop flight.:)

 

If you're talking about 'Ports o' Call' village, it's been in disarray for several years now. It needs lots of $$$ to revitalize it. Long Beach is a nicer location but, IMO, still can't beat San Diego

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Well if they are leaving SD it certainly won't be soon as the cruise books have them going to SD well into 2014. I've cruised out of San Pedro many times and its really no better then SD, in fact it is in a very ugly industrial area. Sailing in and out of SD is much more attractive then San Pedro.

 

All of California's cruise ports are old and in decay. For some reason we don't want to do any improving of them. Certainly we don't want to encourage any income growth like Florida. We are driving many, many businesses out of here because of our ridiculous rules and taxes. Pretty much California is just becoming a big welfare state and if they keep it up there won't be anyone here to pay the bill. Ok off my soap box now.

 

Melodie, while I agree that it will not happen quickly just because they have it written down and in the books does not mean they cannot change. Look at a few years ago when HAL was going to take the Oosterdam to South America:eek: They had numerous brochures out with Oosterdam sailing South America. Well after several months and many that actually purchased sailings they decided not to have the Oosterdam there. It is also possible HAL could move to San Pedro. That could actually be in the talking stages now. There is definitely room especially on Saturdays which is primarily when HAL sails the West Coast.

 

I agree that San Diego is definitely more pleasing to the eye and far more convenient for travelers coming into San Diego via plane or even train, that is not what is being questioned here and definitely has nothing to do with how the cruise lines truly feel about San Diego. If the internal process of Debarkation and Embarkation can go much smoother and they have far more cooperation for Shore Side Border Patrol and Stevedores I can see HAL moving this up to San Pedro.

While there are some that have posted here about not incurring any problems, there appears to be far more that have posted that have had problems especially with debarkation. I can honestly state that my last 5 or 6 sailings out of San Diego were definitely signs of major problems with Debarkation. These are things I have not seen happen in recent years in other ports such as Port Everglades, Seattle or even Vancouver.

Granted I do not think it will be anytime this fall we will see the change because they know their passengers have already purchased air and HAL does not want to encounter additional costs such as having busses to transport these people to San Pedro because they made the Port Change but I can see them making the change for Fall 2013 when ship start to return from Alaska.

[big green]

The Hotel director did mention San Francisco as a replacement for San Diego.

 

BG

[LAFFNVEGAS]

The Hotel director did mention San Francisco as a replacement for San Diego.

 

BG

Hmmm not surprising because it is my understanding that the terminal there is going to be doing more upgrades because Princess will be Home Porting there year round.

That would definitely make for some interesting changes to itinerary because they would have to do a longer Mexico and Hawaii cruise. Princess is selling cruises out of San Francisco at a much higher price point and selling strong. For the last several years Princess has been the only ship going to Alaska on a regular basis from San Francisco and sailing 10 day cruises, same ports but charging 200% over sailings from Seattle for Alaska. The economy is definitely stronger in Northern California as well as incomes. But bringing HAL up there as competition could help for prices ;) Just yesterday I was looking at a 10 night Sea of Cortez on the Grand Princess for myself for March 2014. Great itinerary but prices made my head spin :D I paid far less going to Hawaii in a Suite on the Oosterdam than their least expensive Balcony.

[CruiserBruce]

 

All of California's cruise ports are old and in decay. For some reason we don't want to do any improving of them.

 

[/size]

 

Ah, San Francisco is building a new cruise terminal. Not remodeling/repairing as some one else said, but building a new one. Think it opens in 2014.

[Sopwith]

In a way, not surprising. We have cruised from SD several times and find it fairly convenient for location. But...

 

1. In ~2011 we were forced to queue outside in the rain for over an hour to check in. When we finally got into the building it was virtually empty. There was plenty of room to queue most of the pax inside if they had been properly organized. My complaint to the terminal manager was met with an entirely lame excuse.

 

2. Two weeks ago when the Zaandam arrived late at 7:30 pm, USCBP insisted that all pax had to report with their passports, which caused great disruption to the late dinner.

 

3. We had arranged to disembark later the next day. When I tried to go for a quick walk the next morning they wouldn't let me off the ship, claiming CBP needed the final paperwork before I could go. Major hassle. When I finally got back from the walk I was forced to queue up with over 50 crew people and early pax boarding another ship in the terminal, who were all checking in and had to have their luggage screened. The whole thing was a major clusterfumble.

 

4. I see Air Canada has canceled their direct YVR-SAN flights. Have they possibly got wind of the cruise lines' plans?

 

The port authorities and the CBP people need to realize that the businesses and clients (yes, we are CLIENTS!) will only tolerate so much abuse, especially when there are viable alternatives available.

[CruiserBruce]

That would definitely make for some interesting changes to itinerary because they would have to do a longer Mexico and Hawaii cruise.

 

Hawaii is actually closer to SF than LA, due to California curving eastward south of San Luis Obispo, so longer Hawaii cruises are not required. The distance isn't great- I think it is less than 150 flight miles- so a 14 or 15 day Hawaii route is definietly doable.

 

The issue would be the Ensenada stop, more than an increased distance SF-Hawaii.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Hawaii is actually closer to SF than LA, due to California curving eastward south of San Luis Obispo, so longer Hawaii cruises are not required. The distance isn't great- I think it is less than 150 flight miles- so a 14 or 15 day Hawaii route is definietly doable.

 

The issue would be the Ensenada stop, more than an increased distance SF-Hawaii.

I agree, I should have been more specific. But yes with needing to stop in Ensenada they must take an additional day. The Hawaii cruises for SF are 15 nights compared to the 14 from San Diego and Los Angeles. Now if they did not have to stop in Ensenada that would change a lot :D

[Himself]

I have sailed out of San Diego on HAL more time than I can mentally count without pulling up all my sailings the very first time was November 2004. I was still fairly new to cruising and HAL with just a few sailings under our belt. I do honestly believe that back then things were far better in San Diego. Sadly over the years I have seen it continue to get worse especially for disembarkation. This is all very unfortunate because with San Diego having such a close airport and the city itself being quite nice and beautiful cruising industry could have grown big for San Diego.

 

I agree that cruise lines giving the excuse about Mexico was just that "an excuse" but this was just one of several reasons why cruise lines pulled out of doing so many West Coast Mexico cruises the biggest being on board spending and revenue for the cruise lines.

 

I have taken several cruises out of San Pedro and visited the Long Beach terminal twice when visiting Carnival ships and I will say that the process is drastically smoother with far less hassle out of both of these ports.

 

But Caution!!!!! the Wheels (or should I say Azipods ;) ) of Holland America Move SLOW. I seriously doubt any time in the immediate future they will be leaving San Diego. I also definitely do not doubt it is in the works. The earliest I see this change happening might be Fall sailings in 2013 but more than likely this will not happen till 2014.

 

There are several scenerios to consider, first this year we have Zaandam on the West Coast but next year in Fall 2013 we have the Veendam (that in itself tells us what they think of the West Coast :rolleyes: ). Not that I have been told a thing which I have not but who knows maybe HAL already knows they are getting rid of Veendam and will just cancel those sailings :confused:

 

Another thing to look at is that while HAL is trying to pull away from the West Coast, Princess is actually ramping up their sailings for the West Coast with more Princess ships than they have had in many years that will Home Port in both San Pedro and San Francisco. Princess is even starting Oct thru April 3 and 4 day cruises all make a stop in Ensenada but some are Coastals while others go to Catalina. And interestingly enough they are starting to sell strong for late 2013. I personally think this will hurt Carnival a bit because sailing the Sapphire is definitely nicer than the much older Inspriation.

 

Unless HAL makes an announcement soon I would not be expecting any quick changes, my guess is that it is in the threatening stage. And HAL has every right to threaten, HAL has brought lots of tourism to San Diego over the past decade and it is quite unfortunate that the power that be that control this problem in San Diego has not stepped up to correct matters.

 

Lisa, I have sailed the Zaandam pot of SD to Hawaii and I like that ship better than any of the three Vista class ships I have been on. I do agree on the VEENDAM

[solocanadian]

The Hotel director did mention San Francisco as a replacement for San Diego.

 

BG

I would not care for that. Lots of fog issues at certain times of the year and a Long costly cab ride from the airport to the pier. Love the city but not as a home port for HAL. Hotels are expensive there too. :(

[solocanadian]

If you're talking about 'Ports o' Call' village, it's been in disarray for several years now. It needs lots of $$$ to revitalize it. Long Beach is a nicer location but, IMO, still can't beat San Diego

Thank you, Mr. Wikopedia - you hit the nail on the head - that's the place. Used to be nice back in the 90's. :)

[big green]

I would not care for that. Lots of fog issues at certain times of the year and a Long costly cab ride from the airport to the pier. Love the city but not as a home port for HAL. Hotels are expensive there too. :(

 

 

Just like the expensive hotels in Vancouver--I gotta a feeling Hal is moving to San Francisco--you can taker a van from the airport a lot cheaper--done it many times--

 

getting to an hotel from the Vancouver airport is not cheap either. You can always fly to florida.

 

BG

[Jo-Bob]

Just like the expensive hotels in Vancouver--I gotta a feeling Hal is moving to San Francisco--you can taker a van from the airport a lot cheaper--done it many times--

 

getting to an hotel from the Vancouver airport is not cheap either. You can always fly to florida.

 

BG

 

Sure it is. If you are heading to the waterfront from the Vancouver airport....the Canada Line (Sky train-rapid transit) gets you directly from the airport to the pier and any number of fabulous hotels for about $9. Not the prettiest ride, but it's about as cheap as one can get.

[igraf]

The third terminal is a multi-purpose pier which is only used on days with multiple ships, usually only when there is a third ship. Nothing at all to do with BruceMuzz's reasons.

 

Cruise traffic to Mexico has diminished for market reasons.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

Igraf, I think what BruceMuzz is referring to is the new terminal, which is rarely used for the reasons he cited. Not the old terminal.

 

Was in San Diego for 6 days in April, staying near the cruise ship terminals. Went by the terminals every morning just after 7am, and back at 5ish. Every day I was there there was a ship in port, and on one day there was three.

[sassyredhat]

Most of the cruise lines - including my employer - have already pulled out of San Diego for the very same reasons.

 

On my final visits there:

The stevedores were shouting obscenities at the Captain and crew upon arrival.

Several fork lift drivers had to be removed as they were too drunk to drive.

Nearly every week they allowed an entire cage of suitcases to drop into the harbor.

When the stevedores came onboard to assist with loading they all had to be searched upon exiting as they were stealing so many things from the ship.

 

San Diego Immigration is habitually late and understaffed.

San Diego Immigration has a bunch of really rude officers who treat visitors like criminals.

San Diego could not get it's act together to build a proper cruise terminal. After Carnival gave them the money, they built a terminal that is too short for most ships to safely tie up there - and the harbor is too shallow in that area for most ships to call at low tide.

 

Wait a minute......Not all of this is true. Sure I live here, and the old terminal is old and not as good as others, but I have never ever seen drunk fork lift drivers.

Also, the new terminal didn't get finished as promised because CCL did not give all the money that they had promised. :mad:

I admit it isn't the greatest terminal, but I have never seen all that you have described. :eek:

Pat

[igraf]

The original post was lost in this mornings server downtime, so here is the short version....

 

The San Diego piers handle longer ships just fine with all ropes tied down from bow to stern, and there is no problem at low tide. Think about it. If the ships bottomed out at low tide, then there would be serious ongoing problems as the ships are tied up all day at the pier.

 

You have the ships all wrong. HAL and Celebrity are steady in San Diego and it is Princess and Carnival who are largely out of LA.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

....San Diego could not get it's act together to build a proper cruise terminal. After Carnival gave them the money, they built a terminal that is too short for most ships to safely tie up there - and the harbor is too shallow in that area for most ships to call at low tide.

 

The cruise lines are always worried about PR. They do not want to have difficulties with major US ports. So it is far easier to blame violence in Mexico for ships pulling out of San Diego. That's what most of us did. Only Carnival remains, wth occasional stops by Holland America and Princess.

 

.

[Elephant Man]

My wife and I have cruised from San Diego at least seven or eight times and we have never had one iota of trouble from anyone with both arrivals and departures. Everyone, including Customs and Immigration were courteous and efficient.

 

Both of us were surprised to read these negative comments and we are wondering if HAL has been contacted to affirm or deny the subject of their ships no longer using the San Diego cruise ship terminal. We are booked for a cruise out of San Diego on HAL in March.

 

Again, has anyone received official notice of the rumored change?

[solocanadian]

Just like the expensive hotels in Vancouver--I gotta a feeling Hal is moving to San Francisco--you can taker a van from the airport a lot cheaper--done it many times--

 

getting to an hotel from the Vancouver airport is not cheap either. You can always fly to florida.

 

BG

I know taxis are expensive in Vancouver & hotel close to Canada Place - I live here. Just commented about them in SF & fog. I think LAX to San Pedro is cheaper. I don't fly to Florida. Takes too long to get there from :(Vancouver and nothing is direct. It never has been easy from Vancouver to Florida. I would not go on a free cruise out of FLL just because it is a pain to get there from here

[cruisinjudy]

All I can say that I hope it is not true. We have taken many many cruises out of San Diego and have not had a problem ever.

[whip52]

No problem dealing with San Diego or Fort Lauderdale. You think San Diego is a hassle? Try the ferry ports in the Philippines.

 

It's all relative.

[Indycal]

We have sailed out of SD twice, one went great, the other was horrible (Feb 2012). We were told by the Hotel Manager on the Oosterdam (Feb 2012) about the suitcases going into the water around Christmas 2011, I believe. He did mention that HAL is looking to leave SD totally as a port for many reasons. I hate that thought too! It is a 2 hour drive for us. It makes no sense that in this economy that the Port of San Diego would chase away customers! The trickle down effect is huge for the stores, taxi's, hotels, etc. I just don't get it! I have never been employed anywhere that being rude and nasty to customers is allowed...why does this behavior continue:confused: