Friends and family discount

[Molliem]

This is a business. Like purchasing anything, the customer has the right to negotiate. There is always a means of getting a better deal. Just like airplane fees, don't ask the person beside you what their cost was. Oceania has a policy of not wishing to discount rates. Well as long as they get the bottom line why should they care how the TA works with the customer. They are providing an excellent product which speaks for itself. Most agencies are paying gratuities. Is this not discounting? How much should your TA make on a deal? That's between you and your TA. If you are happy with results then the price must be right and you have a great TA.

 

Elwin

 

There's another way it could happen -- Jan's exact quote (with my emphasis) was, "...they have a strict policy of not advertising less rates then they publish..."

 

An agent can charge whatever rate they like as long as they don't do it publicly...

 

...but, as Jim stated, it goes against Oceania's intentions and is not really fair to other agents.

[Molliem]

Forgot to mention, what is real price of anything you buy- is what you will pay. Also if Oceania is against discounting price, why do they show on CC an add from Oceania discounts up to $6000. per stateroom? Don't they have a two rate system when showing regular fares and discounted fares?

 

Elwin

 

This is a business. Like purchasing anything, the customer has the right to negotiate. There is always a means of getting a better deal. Just like airplane fees, don't ask the person beside you what their cost was. Oceania has a policy of not wishing to discount rates. Well as long as they get the bottom line why should they care how the TA works with the customer. They are providing an excellent product which speaks for itself. Most agencies are paying gratuities. Is this not discounting? How much should your TA make on a deal? That's between you and your TA. If you are happy with results then the price must be right and you have a great TA.

 

Elwin

[JimandStan]

Forgot to mention, what is real price of anything you buy- is what you will pay. Also if Oceania is against discounting price, why do they show on CC an add from Oceania discounts up to $6000. per stateroom? Don't they have a two rate system when showing regular fares and discounted fares?

 

Elwin

 

You miss the point completely here Elwin.

 

Oceania knows (to the penny) what they are charging these bogus Agents for the cruise itself, so if that Agent is selling it for less than that amount, then they are dipping into commission!

 

Because that Agent is earning less per cruise sold, the difference has to made up in volume, which means that service suffers.

 

This is why, along with protecting the legitimate Agents who follow the rules, Oceania forbids this type of discounting.

 

Reputable Agents don't do it, and to be frank the amount of money that one could save, even in a super Suite on a long cruise, is not worth the indignity of denying one's Agent a living wage.

[mringenoldus]

Just to note.....RCCL/Celebrity discontinued discounting a while ago. Only add on perks allowed. I believe even Carnival (please forgive the editorial - but yuck!) is talking about taking the same course.

 

My TA gives great service and that for me has value. I would never begrudge him his commission!

[hondorner]

This is a business. Like purchasing anything, the customer has the right to negotiate. There is always a means of getting a better deal. Just like airplane fees, don't ask the person beside you what their cost was. Oceania has a policy of not wishing to discount rates. Well as long as they get the bottom line why should they care how the TA works with the customer. They are providing an excellent product which speaks for itself. Most agencies are paying gratuities. Is this not discounting? How much should your TA make on a deal? That's between you and your TA. If you are happy with results then the price must be right and you have a great TA...

Partially true. The agencies that are providing gratuities are not doing so out of the commission, they are provided that amount by the cruise line as an amenity to be provided the consumer. They cannot keep it for themselves; it's a "use it or lose it" situation. The cruise line provides it to agents who book "groups" or are high volume bookers. Therefore, it's not discounting.

 

It's true you can always negotiate with a TA to give up part of their commission in order to bribe you to book with them. It's also true, as my friend Jim points out, that with most such agents, you get what you paid for. By paying a reduced price, you often get reduced service. Better agents retain their customers with good service and don't have to "buy" the booking; customers who appreciate what their agent does for them don't mind paying a fair price.

 

 

Forgot to mention, what is real price of anything you buy- is what you will pay. Also if Oceania is against discounting price, why do they show on CC an add from Oceania discounts up to $6000. per stateroom? Don't they have a two rate system when showing regular fares and discounted fares?...

Again, partially true. Market value always has been, and always will be, what a willing buyer will pay and what a willing seller will accept. That's why there are cruise lines at many price points.

 

But, the "two rate system" always shows the bottom rate, after company discounts, as the published price. Advertising or promoting anything below that published price is what can lead to trouble for an agent.

 

My friend Jim may be a bit severe in his choice of words, as Oceania cannot "forbid" an agent from charging anything they like. Heck, they could even dig into their own pockets and pay for your entire cruise (but they would not do it for long before they went broke). But, Oceania has let it be known that they don't approve of such discounting, and what they CAN do is penalize any agent that advertises or promotes a fare lower than the published price.

 

Many cruise lines have adopted similar policies. What they are trying to do is stop (or at least limit) the practice of "shopping" a booking; that is, booking with the cruise line and then enticing less than scrupulous agencies to "bid" for the booking.

 

I've owned several businesses during my career, some with professional fees, some service oriented, and one retail business. The best piece of advice I received early on was, "Set your own value. If you are willing to lower your price early on, people will always expect you to be worth less." Of course, to make this work, a businessman must be able to provide value in the form of expertise or service. I choose the agency with the most expertise and service, and am willing to pay a fair price. The owner of my agency posts frequently on these boards, and I wish I was able to name her in order to provide her with the thanks she deserves.

[orchestrapal]

[quote=hondorner;36136488]

The owner of my agency posts frequently on these boards, and I wish I was able to name her in order to provide her with the thanks she deserves.

Any one who follows this board does not have to be a genius "Sweet" or otherwise to know who you are speaking of.:D

[mringenoldus]

Of course, to make this work, a businessman must be able to provide value in the form of expertise or service. I choose the agency with the most expertise and service, and am willing to pay a fair price. The owner of my agency posts frequently on these boards, and I wish I was able to name her in order to provide her with the thanks she deserves.

 

I have strayed from my TA on a few occasions enticed by sale fare pricing. On almost every occasion, I have ended up wondering why I did it. It has reinforced for me exactly what Don has said......a great TA has intangible value!

[rallydave]

It is not exactly a mystery as to how that happens.

 

Unscrupulous and unprincipled Agents sometimes cheat to get the extra business, which literally takes the bread out of the mouths of those Agents who play by the rules.:mad:

 

Aside from the ethics, or lack thereof, involved in doing such a thing, as Jan noted in an earlier post, eventually those agents will be caught and lose their credentials to sell Oceania Cruises.

 

It's wrong, it's dishonest, and it's risky. If ANY Agent offers you such a deal, JUST WALK AWAY.

 

Jim and Stan,

 

Your posts are usually spot on and 100% correct. Sometime you are partially correct and even more rarely you are 100% incorrect.

 

This is one of those 100% incorrect situations. Both Regent and Oceania changed their policies at the same time several months ago and those policies are the same as one would expect from cruise lines both under the same owner PCH. The new rules were written very carefully with input from many of their most trusted TA's including one I choose to do business with. Quite a few of these TA's do provide a "rebate" to customers just before the cruise departure. The customer pays full price as determined by Regent and Oceania and do not advertise these rebates in accordance with the policies in effect.

 

As others have stated, it is up to the TA to determine what if any rebate to provide and PCH has consciously chosen to allow that policy to continue. Mine and many other of these TA's are members of the PCH advisory council and are respected sellers of these cruises.

 

To call these excellent TA's who provide as much if not more customer service than those TA's who choose not to rebate the names you used in your post is bordering on defamation of character.

 

These TA's will NOT lose their credentials to sell PCH cruises, are ethical and do play by the rules as written or they wouldn't be part of the PCH council. It is certainly not wrong, not dishonest and as long as the TA provides your credit card number to the cruise line and you receive a receipt from Oceania confirming payment, you are good to go.

 

With the prices we are paying for Oceania or Regent, there are savings to be had in the thousands of dollars and the TA will still earn a fair commission for their services.

 

If money is no object and you choose to pay the full fare, do as Jim and Stan suggest and simply walk away however if you want good service and a significant rebate, these TA's who rebate aren't difficult to find.

[LHT28]

My TA gives great service and that for me has value. I would never begrudge him his commission!

+1

I agree

 

people think TA's make thousands on their bookings :eek:

& want part of that back

Forgetting the agent has wages & bills to pay out of the few dollars they actually make on your booking

 

In another life I was a TA & I cannot count the number of hours I spent working on getting information for a client only to have them go to a discount broker (who gave no service) for the package

This was when we had to call the tour operators & cruise lines ...not booking on a computer system like now a days

Sometimes you would be on hold for up to 1 hr

 

I have 2 great TA's I use (1 for Oceania cruises ) & I usually do my homework before I call them so I have all the information I need to make the booking

Sometimes I do have to ask a few questions but I do try to find the information on my own

 

I would never ask my TA for an extra discount

 

I know all those that ask for big discount would willing give part of their income to someone doing business with their company so maybe that is why they expect the same of their TA :rolleyes:

[rallydave]

+1

I agree

 

people think TA's make thousands on their bookings :eek:

& want part of that back

Forgetting the agent has wages & bills to pay out of the few dollars they actually make on your booking

 

In another life I was a TA & I cannot count the number of hours I spent working on getting information for a client only to have them go to a discount broker (who gave no service) for the package

This was when we had to call the tour operators & cruise lines ...not booking on a computer system like now a days

Sometimes you would be on hold for up to 1 hr

 

I have 2 great TA's I use (1 for Oceania cruises ) & I usually do my homework before I call them so I have all the information I need to make the booking

Sometimes I do have to ask a few questions but I do try to find the information on my own

 

I would never ask my TA for an extra discount

 

I know all those that ask for big discount would willing give part of their income to someone doing business with their company so maybe that is why they expect the same of their TA :rolleyes:

 

Agents booking Oceania do make thousands in commissions! As to asking for a discount, NO we don't ask, the TA offers whatever discount they choose.

 

Now, let me ask you some questions. Do you pay full price for a new car or do you expect a discount?? If a store is having a sale on something you want to buy, do you refuse the discount and pay full price?? If you are selling your house and the going commission rate is 7% and the agent you want to business with offers to take a 5% commission, do you then say no, you want to pay 7%??

 

I'm guessing that you would take those discounts and not demand to pay full price. Dealing with a TA is no different except since PCH will not allow their agencies to discount, the provide a rebate of some percentage while you are paying the cruise line full price. This rebate does come out of their commission which in most businesses is called profit. In my examples above, all of the discounts and commission reductions are reduced profits. No difference to any sale.

 

If Jim and Stan were correct in what they call agencies who provide an allowable rebate, then every business that discounts, rebates, reduces commissions, etc. is unscrupulous and unprincipled. Guess almost every company is unscrupulous and unprincipled since most companies discount.

 

The argument against TA's rebating is absurd as has been proven by others and myself. Everyone needs to decide who to use to book their cruise so don't let someone scare you into avoiding saving thousands of dollars by calling respectable travel agencies the horrible names in previous posts.

[LHT28]

Agents booking Oceania do make thousands in commissions! As to asking for a discount, NO we don't ask, the TA offers whatever discount they choose.

 

They may get thousands if they are booking top suites but certainly not for all cabins & it is not on the price you pay that commissions are based on

 

I think you are missing something here

 

Some people demand a certain discount or they will take their $$ elsewhere not saying you are one of those people

If a TA or any other business offers a reasonable (subjective to some) then of course people will take it

When clients ask for more & the TA decides to give it to keep the client happy then that is a different kettle of fish

 

I seem to remember in the notice that TA could discount up to 5% (not sure on the amount) but as Don stated they cannot advertise they will discount that amount

 

Anyway people will do as they want no matter what so it is a moot point

 

Lyn

[rallydave]

They may get thousands if they are booking top suites but certainly not for all cabins & it is not on the price you pay that commissions are based on

 

I think you are missing something here

 

Some people demand a certain discount or they will take their $$ elsewhere not saying you are one of those people

If a TA or any other business offers a reasonable (subjective to some) then of course people will take it

When clients ask for more & the TA decides to give it to keep the client happy then that is a different kettle of fish

 

I seem to remember in the notice that TA could discount up to 5% (not sure on the amount) but as Don stated they cannot advertise they will discount that amount

 

Anyway people will do as they want no matter what so it is a moot point

 

Lyn

 

Thank you Lyn for a very civil response. I agree with you about people shall we say bidding one TA against the other or demanding increased discounts or rebates. Bad juju.

 

As you your 5% comment, your rememberence is not correct. When the rule changed, was concerned that the rebate we get (not less than 10% of the commissionable fare) so I read the actual new rules which were posted on the Regent board. In actuality, there is no maximum rebate, the 5% refers to what the TA may advertise as freebies such as OBC's, Drinks, Excursions, Gratuities, etc.

 

I then called the owner of my agency which is one of the biggest agencies and is brick and mortar as well as internet and has real agents taking care of everyone. He is on the advisory board of PCH and he said my concern had been discussed with the powers that be and that the not less than 10% rebates would continue and was within their rules as long as they weren't advertised. This by the way is how the discounts get to be thousands. Only need a fare of $5,000 PP gets a $1,000 rebate. True some rebates won't reach the thousands

 

This is why I objected so much to the comments from another poster that were totally out of line and totally incorrect.

[LHT28]

Thank you Lyn for a very civil response. I agree with you about people shall we say bidding one TA against the other or demanding increased discounts or rebates. Bad juju.

 

As you your 5% comment, your rememberence is not correct. When the rule changed, was concerned that the rebate we get (not less than 10% of the commissionable fare) so I read the actual new rules which were posted on the Regent board. In actuality, there is no maximum rebate, the 5% refers to what the TA may advertise as freebies such as OBC's, Drinks, Excursions, Gratuities, etc.

 

Thanks for the update

I read the article posted when it came out so it was a while ago

 

Lyn

[tak2]

If Oceania sees this ad or goes to this presentation they will no longer let this agent sell into their cruise line..they have a strict policy of not advertising less rates then they publish..

Jancruz1

 

Jan, I was invited to this presentation because I booked ONE cruise ( before Oceania ) with this agency back in 2004.

 

What Elwin posted about the advertisement was true, be it Vancouver's or Calgary's presentation. They even put the Calgary presentation on youtube, and invited viewers to book with them while the discount lasts!

 

As to OP question, I assume it was referring to the deep discount for F & F of staff/crew. My understanding is head office is quite strict about who actually qualifies, and it is capacity controlled in the sense that one virtually has to be able to go on short notice, and can be bumped by a regular fare passenger. With so many sold out sailings, the odds are not good.

[jtslattery]

Sorry for the confusion, I was @ the F1 race all last week without access.

To clarify I recently cruised with AZ and did an on board open booking. Along with the booking came a discount and two or three discount coupons I could give to others to encourage others to join us. I was trying to find out if Oceania had a similar practice assuming I could pick one up from the the roll call group.

[Molliem]

Hi Jim & Stan;

 

Lets get it clear, Jim & Stan. You are TA's by all appearances and you have in mind getting the most for each booking. You are on one side but the wise consumer is on the other side looking for a deal. Some seem to have too much money and will pay the full price just to make their TA's happy and possibly spread the wealth. That's their choice. We prefer to look at our TA as a partner and send business to him. Over 10 years of cruising, we have never paid the full price. And we will not do so in future having two more booked and 11 completed on Oceania. You can call it dipping or whatever but you also know that commissions of 10% to 18% are generous and some TA's are happy accepting less to retain customers who do not take up their time. We do everything ourselves and the TA is the in between man. in closing, we do not feel this type of in depth topic should be on cruise critic and it does not speak well of TA's who seem to feel they are entitled to such large commissions in relation to the total cost to clients.

 

Elwin

You miss the point completely here Elwin.

 

Oceania knows (to the penny) what they are charging these bogus Agents for the cruise itself, so if that Agent is selling it for less than that amount, then they are dipping into commission!

 

Because that Agent is earning less per cruise sold, the difference has to made up in volume, which means that service suffers.

 

This is why, along with protecting the legitimate Agents who follow the rules, Oceania forbids this type of discounting.

 

Reputable Agents don't do it, and to be frank the amount of money that one could save, even in a super Suite on a long cruise, is not worth the indignity of denying one's Agent a living wage.

[GJH123]

Please help me to understand the super services provided by your travel agents in this age of the internet. I usually just call or e-mail, specify the cruise we wish to book, secure the proper amount of insurance (also commissionable) and then recontact at final payment time as I arrange pre and post hotels, private excursions, and airfare on my own. (I enjoy planning and research) This would involve at most one half hour of the agent's time since we are returning customers and relevant information is on file. For this they are compensated at 10% of the fare? That's minimally a $1000 for each of the cruises we have booked. Sorry, but that seems pretty high when I can hire an attorney or accountant for $500 an hour out here in the hinterlands.

Seems to me, the new policy advantages low volume agencies in an attempt to expand and encourage new marketing opportunities and discourages capitalistic value pricing.

Please enlighten a non-business person; I'm just curious to know what services your agents provide and how the new policy benefits me as a returning Oceania customer.

[rallydave]

Please help me to understand the super services provided by your travel agents in this age of the internet. I usually just call or e-mail, specify the cruise we wish to book, secure the proper amount of insurance (also commissionable) and then recontact at final payment time as I arrange pre and post hotels, private excursions, and airfare on my own. (I enjoy planning and research) This would involve at most one half hour of the agent's time since we are returning customers and relevant information is on file. For this they are compensated at 10% of the fare? That's minimally a $1000 for each of the cruises we have booked. Sorry, but that seems pretty high when I can hire an attorney or accountant for $500 an hour out here in the hinterlands.

Seems to me, the new policy advantages low volume agencies in an attempt to expand and encourage new marketing opportunities and discourages capitalistic value pricing.

Please enlighten a non-business person; I'm just curious to know what services your agents provide and how the new policy benefits me as a returning Oceania customer.

 

Sound like you are business astute GJH123. Yes there are times the TA provides hours of support to the customer and for other like you and me perhaps 30 minutes to an hour. And yes, believe the Oceania (PCH) approach is to protect the smaller agencies who don't have the volume to be able to rebate as some larger agencies are able to do and thus increase marketing opportunities and bookings. Really don't believe this new policy does anything to benefit the paying customer.

 

And, your figuring commission at 10% is on the low side, especially for Oceania. Pretty sure that TA's booking Oceania receive up to 17% depending on their agreement, volume, etc. Now this doesn't mean that the TA you deal with gets the full up to 17%. As Lyn pointed out, there are business costs that must be paid and the amount the TA you deal with actually gets is unknown and really none of our business. The Agency we deal with provides a minimum of 10% rebate and the actual amount the TA gets is for sure less than your 10% figure but still a good and fair amount for the amount of time spent.

 

If Jim and Stan are actually TA's as another poster surmised, they are doing a great disservice to the Travel Industry by spouting false statements and calling reputable Agencies who are following rules set up by Oceania and who Oceania knows what rebates and perks they are providing vicious and false names.

 

Some of these agencies actually provide the amount of their rebates and perks in writing on their web pages while following the rules set down by Oceania. Guess Jim and Stan have nothing more to say on this subject since they are aware that they are absolutely incorrect in what they have posted on this thread.

[LHT28]

One last word on this topic

TA's do NOT get commission on the total cost of the cruise that you pay

There are things included in the price you pay called "non comissionable fees"

 

So using the $5000 fare as an example, take off the included airfare, take off the taxes & port charges etc... & the TA may get $500

Out of this they pay employees, computer systems expenses (like Sabre,) (yes they pay for those) consortium fees (so they get a bigger piece of the pie)

Here in Canada they have to also pay into a Travel protection fund

So now their profit is not so large as people think

On top of all that some people want to be rebated for being good customers :eek:

 

if TA's are making so much money everyone would be one

 

Off my soap box

[nparmelee]

We received this Black Friday offer:

Here's a Black Friday Special from Oceania Cruises if you refer friends to join you on your upcoming voyage. If your friends book a category B or higher both of you will receive between $100 to $300 shipboard credit. The new booking must be made between November 21 and November 26, 2012.

[rallydave]

One last word on this topic

TA's do NOT get commission on the total cost of the cruise that you pay

There are things included in the price you pay called "non comissionable fees"

 

So using the $5000 fare as an example, take off the included airfare, take off the taxes & port charges etc... & the TA may get $500

Out of this they pay employees, computer systems expenses (like Sabre,) (yes they pay for those) consortium fees (so they get a bigger piece of the pie)

Here in Canada they have to also pay into a Travel protection fund

So now their profit is not so large as people think

On top of all that some people want to be rebated for being good customers :eek:

 

if TA's are making so much money everyone would be one

 

Off my soap box

 

Don't disagree at all with the expenses you describe nor that the total a person pays receives commission. That's why I used the term commisionable amound. And that is certainly no 1/2 of the cruise fare so have no idea how the number dropped to $500 from $1000 in the example of $5000 pp. I do know that Regent who is owned by PCH does not break out taxes & port charges or airfare and does pay on the full amount. Not sure about Oceania. Our TA also does not rebate on those non-commissionable charges and wouldn't expect them to do so. The savings are still significant especially for more expensive and longer cruises.

 

Agree being a TA is not an especially lucrative occupation but, there are TA agencies out there that are making a good living and have thriving companies while rebating to customers, especially those that don't take a lot of the TA's time and effort.

 

As I said earlier, why leave money on the table when there are TA's ready and willing to rebate significant sums of money while still providing the same or better service than TA's who provide nothing except your ticket??

 

Think we have beaten this horse to death and should simply let the people decide for themselves without some possible TA's spreading doom, gloom, and name calling.

[LHT28]

 

Think we have beaten this horse to death and should simply let the people decide for themselves without some possible TA's spreading doom, gloom, and name calling.

I have not seen any TA's spreading doom & gloom here :confused:

 

I have not been in the business for 20+ years just pointing out some misconceptions

As I said before people will do what they want to do regardless :rolleyes:

 

Enjoy whatever cruise you choose

 

Lyn

[hondorner]

...Lets get it clear, Jim & Stan. You are TA's by all appearances...

 

...If Jim and Stan are actually TA's as another poster surmised...

Jim and Stan are my closest cruising friends. I am absolutely certain they are not travel agents. If anyone questions that statement, please contact me directly by the link under my signature.

[hondorner]

...Please enlighten a non-business person; I'm just curious to know what services your agents provide and how the new policy benefits me as a returning Oceania customer.

If everything goes the way you like, it's very possible you'll never receive services that justify paying more for a superlative agent. On the other hand, there may come a time when the only thing that "saves your bacon" is an agent who is knowledgeable about the cruise line and how it works, and knows who to contact and what to say.

 

Think of it like travel insurance. If you never use it, you get no value. But, I'm nearing 300 days of cruising and used it once, enough that one time saved me enough to pay for all the other policies. Your choice of agent may not pay you back directly in monetary terms, but it might save you a LOT of trouble.

 

Beyond that, an agent who is close to the cruise line can perform all sorts of small services that provide at least intangible value to your cruise. Those services may vary by client, and asking specifically what they are is something like asking how much someone paid.

[wripro]

I too can pretty much certify that JimandStan are not TAs.

 

There are certain people who will never understand what a good TA can do because they prefer doing it by themselves. That's fine. But there are also those who call their TAs and say I want to go on a Med cruise next September. Arrange it for me including flights (whether purchased, part of the cruise fare, or using FF miles,) hotels, airport transfers and pickups, private excursions, restaurant reservations though hotel concierges. Good TAs will also get those clients the best rooms in the hotel, amenities, provide OBCs and generally make sure the entire trip will run smoothly. All the client has to do it enjoy themselves.