Cruise Security Issue

[uk1]

I’d be interested to hear other passengers views about the situation described below.

 

The reason why I’m posting this concern is that I’ve written to Silversea about this serious potential security issue, and whilst they have apologised and compensated me for the loss – the UK MD hasn’t provided me with any reassurance that different procedures have been put in place. I didn't want to post this note before I'd heard from them and I therefore fear that ALL cruise lines are vulnerable to the serious problem I describe below.

 

We placed our two pieces of identical luggage outside our suite the night before disembarkation as instructed. As you know this is a Silversea requirement and the announcement promises that they would be taken to a secure area on the ship. Each piece of our luggage had a very distinctive strap and combination lock around it. The lock is set to "zero zero" so that airport secuirty staff can gain access if they need to. This is the advice most often given to travellers.

 

When we identified our luggage on the dock side the following morning the straps had been removed from our luggage overnight and were on another passenger’s luggage. I won’t bore you with the details but accept from me that there is no absolutely no doubt – they are 100% identifiable and they were most likely taken from our luggage probably by this other passenger who wanted them alongside the straps he already had on his. I could provide 100% proof of this to the staff.

 

I bought this to the attention of the staff who asked if I wished to remove the straps from the cases that they were now on and replace them on mine, which I felt to be something inappropriate and that would only make matters worst and cause embarrassment to Silversea. The other passenger, not knowing we were the complainant was approached by staff and asked whether the straps were his “as another passenger had lost an identical setâ€. He denied it and then on the airport bound bus for the benefit of other passengers completely misstated what had been asked of him by Silversea staff, but in the process let slip some details not mentioned in the conversation but that would have only been known by the person stealing the straps. The loss of the straps were upsetting merely because you don’t expect other Silversea customers to behave in this way.

 

But what most concerned me is the security questions that stem from this theft and it raises a couple of important points. The most important is that clearly the procedures for taking the luggage out of the possession of cruise customers and storing them has some security exposures for us all.

 

For example, in reality when security questions are asked at the airport – “has your luggage been out of your possession since you packed them†or “could someone have placed something in your luggage†every Silversea passenger – perhaps every cruise passenger should in fact honestly answer “yes†and undergo a full search - unless of course cruise companies changes the current procedure. They should then tell passengers to inform airport check-in staff how to answer the question correctly and accurately. A cruise ship with several thousand customers requiring luggage search at airport check-in is a concerning thought. This is a very worrying aspect of this situation because items – perhaps explosives could (although unlikely) be placed in the luggage by fellow passengers or by crew members. I’m not sure that all crew vetting procedures are as stringent as we would like them to be. Perhaps even several pieces of luggage all travelling on different ‘planes could be tampered with. This is a very serious travel security issue and exposure. Secondly the current procedure seems to allow fellow passengers access to other passengers luggage to steal from them.

 

My motive for highlighting this is not to generate unneccesary anxiety but to start a discussion about what I or we should do next if we are to secure the level of security we should expect when we cruise.

[tef43]

The answer is painfully simple, and is what is being advised in debarkation briefings.

 

Leave your luggage LOCKED until you reach the airport.

 

Dance like it hurts, love like you need money, and work when somebody's watching.

[geoherb]

The TSA has changed the security requirements about luggage: "... airport ticket counter and curbside personnel are no longer required to ask whether a passenger has been in constant possession of his or her luggage."

 

Here's the article from Travel Weekly.

[uk1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tef43:

The answer is painfully simple, and is what is being advised in debarkation briefings.

 

Leave your luggage LOCKED until you reach the airport.

 

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Correct - the answer you have given is painfully simply - but are you not aware that around 99% of the lockable luggage can be opened by 3 or 4 keys or a simple pick? Most people intending to open luggage would be prepared to do so or they would be particularly stupid. Combinations are normally set to zero zero as advised by most governments (including the us) and I guess you're not seriously suggesting that people set it to another number - and then change it to zero zero at the airport?

[uk1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoherb:

The TSA has changed the security requirements about luggage: "... airport ticket counter and curbside personnel are no longer required to ask whether a passenger has been in constant possession of his or her luggage."

 

http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3266/is_38_61/ai_92525087 from _Travel Weekly._<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

The article you reffered to is dated September 2002 and is hopelessly out of date and has been superceded by specific advice often - but definately during the last 14 days.

[mirrajay]

You can now leave your luggage locked - with your own chosen code programmed in - when you check it at the airport IF you have TSA approved locks. Theses are locks with a special symbol (a red diamond) that lets inspectors know that yours is one of these locks and apparently they a key that will open every single one and they will do so instead of cutting it off.

 

Carnival Victory, here I come!

[uk1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by geoherb:

The TSA has changed the security requirements about luggage: "... airport ticket counter and curbside personnel are no longer required to ask whether a passenger has been in constant possession of his or her luggage."

 

http://articles.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3266/is_38_61/ai_92525087 from _Travel Weekly._<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Uptodate guidance

 

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=183&content=09000519800ac530

[tef43]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by uk1:

[Combinations are normally set to zero zero as advised by most governments (including the us) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have *never* heard this advice, and it's pointless anyway. The TSA has no interest in unlocking luggage or testing combinations. If the bag is locked, they will break the lock if they so desire. They do not have the time to fiddle with combinations. Simple as that. If your aim id to deter others, than something more secure than a cheap generic lock is in order. But regardless, the bottom line is, if a thief wants in to your luggage, they *WILL* get in, despite your locks.

 

Dance like it hurts, love like you need money, and work when somebody's watching.

[uk1]

The issue is that the luggage is still out of your possession after it has been collected and can be interfered with.

[wieslaw]

Hello uk1,

 

I am just wondering what do you propose that should be done with the luggage: keep it in your room and carry it out as you are deporting the ship???? Sure, why not...if you never have seen a mess, you will see one when over two thousand people will try to leave at the same time with their luggage in the hand.

 

No lock. regardless how good, will stop professional thief from getting in your luggage, your car or your house.

All of the superficial locks are only for people like us and they should be locked when not in your possesion and in the hallway. When you get to the airport unlock it (key, numbers or whatever) and even if you use the TSA approved locks some TSA agents help themselve (it was on TV in Detroit) so nothing is really safe including every day live and we have to take chances in every thing that we do.

Wes

[imsulin]

Right, wieslaw! It's a really tough situation for not only US travellers, but foreign travellers, as well. I used to always lock my luggage, but not any more, because I've found that it really doesn't matter. Now, I place a hand-written note on the top of my clothes (secured by the cross-straps), and say politely that "This suitcase was carefully packed for a cruise/tour/vacation. You are welcome to go through it, but please leave it as you found it, and leave your name at the bottom of this note". 99% of the time, I have not only gotten the name of the TSA agent, but a smiley-face or a "Enjoy your cruise/tour/vacation" as well. Once, though, while disembarking from a Holland America cruise, not only was my US Flag luggage tag gone, but half the contents of my luggage when I picked it up at the Port Canaveral HAL luggage pick-up area. Travelguard paid me for my losses, but I blamed the US pier workers for helping themselves to my property.

[uk1]

The issue I'm trying to discuss is the issue of aircraft safety for us all. Not about theft from bags, or about locks, or about straps, or about "what to say".

 

The issue is that our luggage is out of our possession apparently on ALL cruise lines for a period of time when several pieces of luggage could be unlocked and items (bombs) could be placed in them and then reolcoked. If there are just a thousand pieces of luggage in the storage area a reasonably laid back terrorist could just open a dozen unlocked pieces or "easy to unlock" pieces and unless EVERYONES luggage is searched at the airport who has come off of a cruise or unless some sort of new procedure is put in place on the ship then the bringing down of SEVERAL aircraft is a real potential risk. This is not about what uk1 says at the airport - but about the risk presented to all passengers on a flight by the presence of other passengers from cruise lines who have not had the luggage fully checked at the airport - and who have had the luggage out of their possession on the last night of a cruise.

 

The ships are full of short-term contract staff and I genuinely doubt that no amount of checking would be abe to protect us from a determined terrorist gaining access to the easisest-going recruitment cruise line.

 

But I'm suggesting that this is a risk that needs to be addressed or it's a bomb waiting to go off.

[JanetMarie]

For DH and I, when we pick our luggage up at the airport, we immediately lock it, place it in the cab, and motor on over to the docks. It stays locked until it reaches our cabin.

 

Same for departure. We place our luggage in the hallway, LOCKED, and it does not get unlocked until we reach the airport. I have no clue why someone would not keep their luggage locked during the two instances I just listed.

 

Magellans web site has the TSA approved locks.

 

OUR NEXT ONWARD JOURNEY!

 

[uk1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JanetMarie:

For DH and I, when we pick our luggage up at the airport, we immediately lock it, place it in the cab, and motor on over to the docks. It stays locked until it reaches our cabin.

 

Same for departure. We place our luggage in the hallway, LOCKED, and it does not get unlocked until we reach the airport. I have no clue why someone would not keep their luggage locked during the two instances I just listed.

 

Magellans web site has the TSA approved locks.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Keeping your luggage locked does not mean that people are not able to unlock it and put something in it and relock it.

[kitty9]

uk1, there is no answer to your question. It's a mixed bag and we all have to do things the way it's been for a long time. I agree, security is a concern and anyone can place contraband in any luggage, but what do you offer as an alternative? I don't think there are alternatives. You cannot possibly have 2000 or more passengers carrying off all their luggage---it's a physical impossibility. The only way to have some semblance of security is to lock your bags with heavy metal combination locks, not set to 000, and hope for the best. When you identify your bags at the dock, you can then unlock them for the airport. Since 9/11 I've used plastic cable ties to lock my luggage. While it's not perfect, it does provide some measure of security.

 

Darcie

[joto]

Just an idea for the luggage pick up in the evening before departure off a cruise ship. Why don't the cruise lines have a "time sheet" that you can specify a time that you would like your luggage picked up, ie: between 10.30 - 11.00pm. There would then be no need to leave luggage outside your cabin door, as the cabin steward or whoever would knock on the door and the luggage handed over. There would need to be a cut off time, say after 2.00 am that luggage would have to be outside the door to be collected. Any opinions on this?

[uk1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joto:

Just an idea for the luggage pick up in the evening before departure off a cruise ship. Why don't the cruise lines have a "time sheet" that you can specify a time that you would like your luggage picked up, ie: between 10.30 - 11.00pm. There would then be no need to leave luggage outside your cabin door, as the cabin steward or whoever would knock on the door and the luggage handed over. There would need to be a cut off time, say after 2.00 am that luggage would have to be outside the door to be collected. Any opinions on this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

I think this idea is a very good one. You book the pickup in the same way that you book an in-suite breakfast slot.

 

What remains however is still an extended period of time when your luggage is out of your possession. I guess that a way to minimise this risk is to have security cameras in the baggage holding areas connected to screens somehwere else where the person observing the screens has had a better level of security clearance. Perhaps even the bridge where the most trusted people work. Any unusual activity could be observed and dealt with.

 

Perhaps another possibility is that I notice at Heathrow ground staff use special tape to seal doors of aircraft at night that can only be stuck once. Ant tampering with the tape can be seen straight away in the morning and dealt with. If there was such a tape that can only be "stuck" once then passengers would know straight away whether their luggage had been tampered with over night.

 

Thanks for the suggestions which I'm going to forward with my corrspobdence to the relevant people.

[Ellya]

I don't understand why I can't just opt to carry my own bags on board and back off again. That way I could have my bags when I get to my cabin without waiting and I would know they were secure. I seem to manage moving my bags through airports, shuttles, and hotels, the ship would not be any different. I agree it is an unnecessary security risk. There could be a much smaller scale system for people who require assistance with their bags.

[uk1]

I think there would be a couple of answers to that. Firstly several hundred or thousand people moving around with in many cases several pieces of luggage each in the confines of ship corridors and lifts would present a whole new set of problems. Secondly, there is an in-built security in that at least for those that have travel packaged they cannot tamper with their own luggage between the carousel and the suite. It doesn't cover all passengers - but does cover a chunk and the view might be that it therefore improves security.

[Arwenmark]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I seem to manage moving my bags through airports, shuttles, and hotels, the ship would not be any different. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

and unless you have a carry on and thats all you also hold people up all along your way moving them along yourself. it may not seem much time to you but multiply it by hundreds! and there is the checking the bags issue, not all luggage will fit through the scanners at check in. and then there are the elevators which are packed at the best of times and some of us in wheelchairs have NO OTHER WAY to move between decks, are you planning to lug your luggage up or down all the flights of stairs to get to your cabin? suppose cabin is not ready when you board? what then.

 

McCall

[banderboo]

I like the tape idea and it would be simple enough (and cost effective enough) to implement.

[cruisinqt]

We have never liked the idea of our luggage just sitting out in the hallway. That is why I have always kept a carry on with me with my valuables like jewelry, dvd player, camera and money in it. My husband also keeps a carry on with all of our souvenirs and gifts we have bought in it. That way, the only thing thieves can steal is dirty clothes and shoes. We got a permanent marker and wrote our names all over our luggage straps. We even put splotches of bright neon paint on them so they stuck out like a sore thumb. I don't think anyone would steal them because they are personalized and too easy to identify. As far as the security issue goes, I hate to say it but there probably isn't anything we can do or say to change things. It's a shame too because you guys have come up with some pretty good ideas to make things more secure. Why can't we call our cabin attendant and have him take our luggage to a secure place instead of putting it out in the hallway? Why can't we just take it to a secure holding area ourselves? I would be willing to drop it off in a locked secure room rather than leave it out in the hallway. It would be nice if they gave us a choice. Some people might leave it in the hallway and some might take it to a secure holding area. It would be nice to have an option for those of us who are a little more security conscious.

[uk1]

I would be willing to drop it off in a locked secure room rather than leave it out in the hallway. It would be nice if they gave us a choice. Some people might leave it in the hallway and some might take it to a secure holding area. It would be nice to have an option for those of us who are a little more security conscious.

 

Thanks for the comments. The issue with your suggestion is that we are ALL vulnerable to the weakest secure link and unless ALL luggage is treated in the most secure way then all of us are insecure.

 

Your suggestion minimises the danger to the contents of your luggage but doesn't reduce the travel risks of travelling with other people on aircraft who have had their luggage out of their control for long periods - but who declare to check-in staff that it hasn't been.

[Silver Anniv]

uk1

Good point about luggage being out of our sight and control, and the security issues that go with that. Hadn't thought of that before, took it for granted all would be ok. All it could take is one disenchanted employee with the cruise line or dock, unhappy with a countries idea's, politics, war, etc. and "plant" an explosive. Hopefully we can trust the TSA folks to REALLY scan and check the luggage BEFORE it gets on the plane. I like the idea of the special tape.

[cruisinqt]

UK1

 

You are correct. I only addressed the security of my own luggage. I did so because that is all I can do. I cannot force others to be more security concious. Nor can I force the cruise lines to be more strict in their security measures. Therefore, all I can do is be more security concious with my own luggage and hope that others are too.

 

It is true. Many people's luggage is out of their sight that last night of a cruise. And it is possible, not probable, but possible that someone can plant a bomb in one too. But I doubt that the cruise lines are going to listen to my complaints and change their ways. I am also not going to worry myself to death over the possibilities of what may happen or even lose much needed sleep over it. The point I am trying to make is, we can lodge our complaints with the cruise lines. We can even try to give them some suggestions on how to improve. But more than likely, things probably won't change. And if they do change, it won't be any time soon.

 

So the best I can do is be more security concious and hope that others are too. It's not much, but it's all we've got. This board is a good forum to discuss these things. It makes people more aware of the issues. Maybe one day things will change. Until then all we can do is be more aware of the risks to our security and try to be more careful.