Dress Code & Good Manners

[Canusa02]

About a bajillion posts on here deal with MDR dress codes. These posts vary in degree from legitimate questions to imposing, harassing attacks. I have found that a common element exists in quite a few of the posts from the harassing side of the equation. The common element is a misunderstanding of the definition of good manners.

I am certain I have read a post that offered a dictionary definition that seemed to side with the dress-formal-or-stay-in crowd, which tends to focus on the letter of the law without giving one iota of care to the spirit of the law. Of course it doesn't take into consideration what is good manners in the real world, both today and a few decades ago. Guys wearing hats while eating has never been accepted, but wearing shorts is commonly accepted (and not scorned) at most decent restaurants. I'll exclude the restaurants that overcharge for their food because the imposing harassers have to eat somewhere on the mainland. In fact, shorts or casual (not sloppy) clothing is acceptable and within good manners most everywhere (although not at every function). That being said, a paid for dinner on a cruise ship is not a function that should demand one wear formal clothing. I thoroughly enjoy dressing up for the formal nights. On the other hand, if you are more comfortable in shorts and a t-shirt, then more power to you. The true problem is, as I referred to them in another post some time ago, is the cruise snobs. I just ask that you pass the pepper, and exercise true good manners of eating with your mouth closed, your napkin on your lap, and your hat off your head.

In conclusion, it is not bad manners to not wear formal clothes to formal night, except to the pretentious people who have been duped into believing an 8 oz. steak, ruined with a sauce, is worth $40. What is bad manners is to believe that another person is less of a person because he/she carries themselves in a different way than you do.

[disneynutssss]

well said, and while i promised myself i would not get into the mix of the debate... i am scared to death that i am going to hate my cruise because of said cruise snobs. yes, i know.. not everyone is a cruise snob but i still have this sinking feeling (insert worried emoticon here)...

[tip]

About a bajillion posts on here deal with MDR dress codes. These posts vary in degree from legitimate questions to imposing, harassing attacks. I have found that a common element exists in quite a few of the posts from the harassing side of the equation. The common element is a misunderstanding of the definition of good manners.

I am certain I have read a post that offered a dictionary definition that seemed to side with the dress-formal-or-stay-in crowd, which tends to focus on the letter of the law without giving one iota of care to the spirit of the law. Of course it doesn't take into consideration what is good manners in the real world, both today and a few decades ago. Guys wearing hats while eating has never been accepted, but wearing shorts is commonly accepted (and not scorned) at most decent restaurants. I'll exclude the restaurants that overcharge for their food because the imposing harassers have to eat somewhere on the mainland. In fact, shorts or casual (not sloppy) clothing is acceptable and within good manners most everywhere (although not at every function). That being said, a paid for dinner on a cruise ship is not a function that should demand one wear formal clothing. I thoroughly enjoy dressing up for the formal nights. On the other hand, if you are more comfortable in shorts and a t-shirt, then more power to you. The true problem is, as I referred to them in another post some time ago, is the cruise snobs. I just ask that you pass the pepper, and exercise true good manners of eating with your mouth closed, your napkin on your lap, and your hat off your head.

In conclusion, it is not bad manners to not wear formal clothes to formal night, except to the pretentious people who have been duped into believing an 8 oz. steak, ruined with a sauce, is worth $40. What is bad manners is to believe that another person is less of a person because he/she carries themselves in a different way than you do.

 

Very well said, and very, very well written!

[Karynanne]

I rarely respond to Dress Code threads, but the OP's comments got my attention.

 

I consider "good manners" with abiding by the requested dress guidelines for the evening's dress. Even though I may be a paying customer, I feel it would be bad manners to disregard the dresscode.

 

And no one is being "duped" into wearing formalwear for the Speciality Restaurants. The cruiseline establishes the ambiance for the evening in hopes that the tone for the evening is heightened and special.

 

I don't consider myself a "cruise snob", but rather a passenger who chose this cruiseline 14 years ago for their dresscode guidelines, amongst varying other factors.

[NLH Arizona]

well said, and while i promised myself i would not get into the mix of the debate... i am scared to death that i am going to hate my cruise because of said cruise snobs. yes, i know.. not everyone is a cruise snob but i still have this sinking feeling (insert worried emoticon here)...

Please don't judge all cruisers by what a very few have said on here, because they only represent a very small percentage of Celebrity cruisers. Enjoy your cruise and please don't go in with any preconceived notions, go in with an open mind and you will surely enjoy.

[disneynutssss]

Please don't judge all cruisers by what a very few have said on here, because they only represent a very small percentage of Celebrity cruisers. Enjoy your cruise and please don't go in with any preconceived notions, go in with an open mind and you will surely enjoy.

 

Thank you. And like I said I know that it isn't everyone. I am sure I will end up having a great time.

[CruisersTimesThree]

well said, and while i promised myself i would not get into the mix of the debate... i am scared to death that i am going to hate my cruise because of said cruise snobs. yes, i know.. not everyone is a cruise snob but i still have this sinking feeling (insert worried emoticon here)...

 

 

When a cruise snob forks over the money that I pay for my vacation, then they can have a say in what I can and cannot wear.

My family and I abide by the suggested dress for each evening because we enjoy it, not because someone who thinks they are the say-all of proper cruise etiquette tells me I have to!

Don't worry about a thing, go and enjoy your vacation!

[Murray's Pop]

I rarely respond to Dress Code threads, but the OP's comments got my attention.

 

I consider "good manners" with abiding by the requested dress guidelines for the evening's dress. Even though I may be a paying customer, I feel it would be bad manners to disregard the dresscode.

 

And no one is being "duped" into wearing formalwear for the Speciality Restaurants. The cruiseline establishes the ambiance for the evening in hopes that the tone for the evening is heightened and special.

 

I don't consider myself a "cruise snob", but rather a passenger who chose this cruiseline 14 years ago for their dresscode guidelines, amongst varying other factors.

 

Thank you. This is the simple truth.

[sarakenny]

well said, and while i promised myself i would not get into the mix of the debate... i am scared to death that i am going to hate my cruise because of said cruise snobs. yes, i know.. not everyone is a cruise snob but i still have this sinking feeling (insert worried emoticon here)...

 

You're on my cruise. We'll have fun :)

[disneynutssss]

you're on my cruise. We'll have fun :)

 

yay!!

[Canusa02]

I rarely respond to Dress Code threads, but the OP's comments got my attention.

 

I consider "good manners" with abiding by the requested dress guidelines for the evening's dress. Even though I may be a paying customer, I feel it would be bad manners to disregard the dresscode.

 

And no one is being "duped" into wearing formalwear for the Speciality Restaurants. The cruiseline establishes the ambiance for the evening in hopes that the tone for the evening is heightened and special.

 

I don't consider myself a "cruise snob", but rather a passenger who chose this cruiseline 14 years ago for their dresscode guidelines, amongst varying other factors.

 

Just for the record, I never said anyone was duped into wearing formalwear. I also did not say that everyone who dresses formally is a cruise snob.

As for the first response, the Titanic sunk a long time ago as did first class/steerage class. So is the way that strict formal-wear guidelines should also go. It is fine to live and let live when doing so in no way harms a person or the core values for which he or she stands. Clothing in no way should be that important of a value for anyone.

[Ma Bell]

About a bajillion posts on here deal with MDR dress codes. These posts vary in degree from legitimate questions to imposing, harassing attacks. I have found that a common element exists in quite a few of the posts from the harassing side of the equation. The common element is a misunderstanding of the definition of good manners.

I am certain I have read a post that offered a dictionary definition that seemed to side with the dress-formal-or-stay-in crowd, which tends to focus on the letter of the law without giving one iota of care to the spirit of the law. Of course it doesn't take into consideration what is good manners in the real world, both today and a few decades ago. Guys wearing hats while eating has never been accepted, but wearing shorts is commonly accepted (and not scorned) at most decent restaurants. I'll exclude the restaurants that overcharge for their food because the imposing harassers have to eat somewhere on the mainland. In fact, shorts or casual (not sloppy) clothing is acceptable and within good manners most everywhere (although not at every function). That being said, a paid for dinner on a cruise ship is not a function that should demand one wear formal clothing. I thoroughly enjoy dressing up for the formal nights. On the other hand, if you are more comfortable in shorts and a t-shirt, then more power to you. The true problem is, as I referred to them in another post some time ago, is the cruise snobs. I just ask that you pass the pepper, and exercise true good manners of eating with your mouth closed, your napkin on your lap, and your hat off your head.

In conclusion, it is not bad manners to not wear formal clothes to formal night, except to the pretentious people who have been duped into believing an 8 oz. steak, ruined with a sauce, is worth $40. What is bad manners is to believe that another person is less of a person because he/she carries themselves in a different way than you do.

 

Obviously the true problem is that the cruise line "has" a dress code that makes it clear that shorts and a t-shirt are not acceptable in the main dining room at dinner. The dress code is not written by "cruise snobs" it is written by the cruise line. Whether we personally think there should be a dress code for formal nights also has nothing to do with it. There is one in place and it is well published both before and during the cruise. If it is not something we are comfortable with there are many alternatives provided., "Cruise snobs"...horrible people that they are, abide by the requested dress code. Personally, I consider that to be good manners.

 

Whether certain forms of dress are acceptable in our neighborhood restaurant is really completely irrelevant. They don't have a written dress code. If the cruise line didn't have a dress code I would agree with everything you said.

 

In all my years of cruising I have never seen another passenger make any kind of a comment to another passenger on the ship. That would be bad manners. As far as I know, people are entitled to "think" whatever they like.

 

I do also think that purposely defying a written dress code when I am perfectly aware of it and have been given the choice of doing something else would certainly be bad manners. I also think it would be extremely pretentious to think I am so special that I can disregard a published policy because I may not agree with it.

[jaspersmommy]

I rarely respond to Dress Code threads, but the OP's comments got my attention.

 

I consider "good manners" with abiding by the requested dress guidelines for the evening's dress. Even though I may be a paying customer, I feel it would be bad manners to disregard the dresscode.

 

And no one is being "duped" into wearing formalwear for the Speciality Restaurants. The cruiseline establishes the ambiance for the evening in hopes that the tone for the evening is heightened and special.

 

I don't consider myself a "cruise snob", but rather a passenger who chose this cruiseline 14 years ago for their dresscode guidelines, amongst varying other factors.

 

 

This is the most sensible response I've seen in ages. I simply fail to understand those folks who sign up for a cruise with a cruiseline that clearly states its dress code guidelines, then they complain about those guidelines or ignore them altogether. Yes, manners would clearly entail following the dress code on the cruise you signed up for. Everyone has a free choice of purchasing a cruise on a line without a formal wear policy. If you don't want to participate in formal wear, there are plenty of alternatives available onboard that everyone can enjoy. When I don't feel like doing the formal wear thing - we do smart casual and either do specialty restaurants, room service or buffet. It's all about manners and respect as far as I'm concerned.

[NLH Arizona]

As for the first response, the Titanic sunk a long time ago as did first class/steerage class. So is the way that strict formal-wear guidelines should also go. It is fine to live and let live when doing so in no way harms a person or the core values for which he or she stands. Clothing in no way should be that important of a value for anyone.

 

This is something to discuss with the cruise line, since they (not their passengers) are the one who has set the "dress code". Celebrity's formal guidelines are not strict in any way shape or form. I really enjoy dressing up on formal night (I actually thought I was too dressed up for both formal nights, based on the other passengers), but there were many women in what I would call day dresses or smart casual wear and there were men in jeans, long sleeve shirts not tucked in and there didn't seem to be a problem. People were dressed in the whole spectrum of clothes on formal night.

 

I believe cruise lines have dress codes to keep their dining rooms/ships at a certain atmosphere and that is their decision. I remember when you could not wear jeans in the MDR on Celebrity and that has changed. What I saw on my last cruise were ripped and torn jeans and yes they were allowed in the MDR, even though it said "no ripped or torn jeans". Point being, I'm sure if they start allowing shorts in the MDR, there are some that will take it to the extremes and start wearing jogging shorts and wife beater t-shirts...it is just human nature to push the envelope. Because, after all, smart casual to one person is totally different to another. BTW, I don't think it has anything to do with good or bad manners.

[HAM]

Obviously the true problem is that the cruise line "has" a dress code that makes it clear that shorts and a t-shirt are not acceptable in the main dining room at dinner. The dress code is not written by "cruise snobs" it is written by the cruise line. Whether we personally think there should be a dress code for formal nights also has nothing to do with it. There is one in place and it is well published both before and during the cruise. If it is not something we are comfortable with there are many alternatives provided., "Cruise snobs"...horrible people that they are, abide by the requested dress code. Personally, I consider that to be good manners.

 

Whether certain forms of dress are acceptable in our neighborhood restaurant is really completely irrelevant. They don't have a written dress code. If the cruise line didn't have a dress code I would agree with everything you said.

 

In all my years of cruising I have never seen another passenger make any kind of a comment to another passenger on the ship. That would be bad manners. As far as I know, people are entitled to "think" whatever they like.

 

I do also think that purposely defying a written dress code when I am perfectly aware of it and have been given the choice of doing something else would certainly be bad manners. I also think it would be extremely pretentious to think I am so special that I can disregard a published policy because I may not agree with it.

 

Way to go, Ma Bell

[Fouremco]

I simply fail to understand those folks who sign up for a cruise with a cruiseline that clearly states its dress code guidelines, then they complain about those guidelines or ignore them altogether.

 

Might I suggest that there are many people who sign up for a cruise without having first read the dress code? In addition, there are others who like Celebrity in general and will return for cruise after cruise, even though they disagree with the dress code. They've every right to express an opinion, as have those who are in full agreement with the dress code as written.

 

That being said, I agree that once onboard they should fully respect the dress code.

 

 

[KaththeTaff]

DH and I have no problem at all in following the suggested dress code for formal evenings. We enjoy dressing up because we want to, and if we dont feel like it, it's our decision

 

If don't dress up it's usually because we have had a busy day. So we miss out on the MDR and don't go to the theatre either. We might go and have a drink after our buffet dinner, as it is nice to see the other people walking around the ship all dressed up. Alternatively, w emight stay in and watch a movie with room service, it depends how tired we are. But we do respect the dress code in those areas where it is expected.

 

The problem, as I see it, is with those who invent a dress code to go with their own opinions and preconceptions, or who think that the formal nights should cover the whole ship.

[jaspersmommy]

Might I suggest that there are many people who sign up for a cruise without having first read the dress code? In addition, there are others who like Celebrity in general and will return for cruise after cruise, even though they disagree with the dress code. They've every right to express an opinion, as have those who are in full agreement with the dress code as written.

 

That being said, I agree that once onboard they should fully respect the dress code.

Unfortunately, if someone has signed up for a cruise without checking the dress code and then complains about it afterward, I really don't have a lot of sympathy. It's the buyer's responsibility to know what he or she is buying. Even for my first cruise, I checked all that out before handing over my credit card.

Having said that, I agree that yes, the buyer has the right to express an opinion if he didn't know the dress code before booking with X. However, showing up at the MDR on formal nights ignoring the dress code is not "expressing an opinion", it's simply disregarding the dress code (and bad manners).

[sarakenny]

 

The problem, as I see it, is with those who invent a dress code to go with their own opinions and preconceptions, or who think that the formal nights should cover the whole ship.

 

Totally agree.

[knowehead]

I take a black suit white shirt black bow tie that's it never had a problem on holland America and if i do on celebrity well, for want of a better word, tough

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Cruise Critic Forums mobile app

[cancan]

Question. If airlines lose my luggage with all my clothing, do I have to spend the

cruise in my stateroom? We are both ++size so replacement from ships stores is

probably not an option.

[Fouremco]

[/size][/font]Unfortunately, if someone has signed up for a cruise without checking the dress code and then complains about it afterward, I really don't have a lot of sympathy. It's the buyer's responsibility to know what he or she is buying. Even for my first cruise, I checked all that out before handing over my credit card.

Having said that, I agree that yes, the buyer has the right to express an opinion if he didn't know the dress code before booking with X. However, showing up at the MDR on formal nights ignoring the dress code is not "expressing an opinion", it's simply disregarding the dress code (and bad manners).

I suspect that there are a lot of first time cruisers who book first and ask questions later. Just look at the number of very basic questions asked on this board, the answers to which can be found very easily on the Celebrity website. "I've just booked a cruise and wonder where cabin 1234 is? Does anyone know where I can find a deck plan?"

 

Many travellers are neither experienced nor savvy. I remember a few years ago, when living in Nova Scotia, a young British couple arrived at the Sydney airport in Cape Breton and, to their utter dismay, realized that they weren't in Australia. So don't be surprised if not all Celebrity passengers are aware of the dress code!

 

[Ma Bell]

I would wonder how they found the Cruise Critic website before they found the website for the company with whom they booked their cruise. If they are that inexperienced, it would seem the first place to go would be the cruise line website.

[Fouremco]

Question. If airlines lose my luggage with all my clothing, do I have to spend the

cruise in my stateroom? We are both ++size so replacement from ships stores is

probably not an option.

We always arrive at the embarkation city a couple of days early. This is primarily to allow for bad weather, missed connections, etc.. This also gives us the time to purchase replacements should our luggage be lost in transit.

 

In February, another CC member who was on the Noordam with us, had exactly that problem. She is a ++ or bigger size, but was able to find suitable replacements, even formal wear, after scurrying around Fort Lauderdale.

 

At the end of our cruise, we stayed an additional night and when we checked into our hotel, there was a forlorn young couple at the desk. Their first flight had been delayed, they missed their connection and arrived in Fort Lauderdale too late to board. My heart went out to these two kids.

 

Anyway, the moral of the story is make sure you get into town early. The cost of an extra night in a hotel is cheap insurance against lost luggage or missed flight connections.

 

[Fouremco]

I would wonder how they found the Cruise Critic website before they found the website for the company with whom they booked their cruise. If they are that inexperienced, it would seem the first place to go would be the cruise line website.

I've often wondered the same thing!