Dress Code & Good Manners

[MommaBear55]

I rarely respond to Dress Code threads, but the OP's comments got my attention.

 

I consider "good manners" with abiding by the requested dress guidelines for the evening's dress. Even though I may be a paying customer, I feel it would be bad manners to disregard the dresscode.

 

And no one is being "duped" into wearing formalwear for the Speciality Restaurants. The cruiseline establishes the ambiance for the evening in hopes that the tone for the evening is heightened and special.

 

I don't consider myself a "cruise snob", but rather a passenger who chose this cruiseline 14 years ago for their dresscode guidelines, amongst varying other factors.

 

Like!

 

I, unlike the OP, do not live in an area that shorts have become acceptable wear at all occasions. I follow dress cos because that is the expectation set by the cruise line. Luckily there are multiple venues should I chose to follow the beat of my own drummer.

[Cindy]

I suspect that there are a lot of first time cruisers who book first and ask questions later. Just look at the number of very basic questions asked on this board, the answers to which can be found very easily on the Celebrity website. "I've just booked a cruise and wonder where cabin 1234 is? Does anyone know where I can find a deck plan?"

 

Many travellers are neither experienced nor savvy. I remember a few years ago, when living in Nova Scotia, a young British couple arrived at the Sydney airport in Cape Breton and, to their utter dismay, realized that they weren't in Australia. So don't be surprised if not all Celebrity passengers are aware of the dress code!

 

 

I'm a researcher/planner, and I'm always amazed when I come across people who have spent a tremendous amount of money, but really don't have an idea of what they purchased. Your story reminds me of an experience we had on a wine country vacation several years ago. My husband and I were in Napa for a few days as part of an extended California road trip. Our itinerary had been carefully planned, and the private tastings and tours that were important to us were all booked in advance by our hotel concierge.

On the last day of our visit, we had an extended tour and tasting at Mondavi. My husband struck up a conversation with a group from Pennsylvania who had just arrived that day, and they asked about where we had visited, eaten, etc. Apparently they had picked up their rental car and driven straight to Mondavi because that was a familiar name to them. Beyond visiting Mondavi, they had no winery or dinner reservations for a whole week in July!:eek:

If people are comfortable travelling like that, great! It would make me a nervous wreck!

[PORT ROYAL]

About a bajillion posts on here deal with MDR dress codes. These posts vary in degree from legitimate questions to imposing, harassing attacks. I have found that a common element exists in quite a few of the posts from the harassing side of the equation. The common element is a misunderstanding of the definition of good manners.

I am certain I have read a post that offered a dictionary definition that seemed to side with the dress-formal-or-stay-in crowd, which tends to focus on the letter of the law without giving one iota of care to the spirit of the law. Of course it doesn't take into consideration what is good manners in the real world, both today and a few decades ago. Guys wearing hats while eating has never been accepted, but wearing shorts is commonly accepted (and not scorned) at most decent restaurants. I'll exclude the restaurants that overcharge for their food because the imposing harassers have to eat somewhere on the mainland. In fact, shorts or casual (not sloppy) clothing is acceptable and within good manners most everywhere (although not at every function). That being said, a paid for dinner on a cruise ship is not a function that should demand one wear formal clothing. I thoroughly enjoy dressing up for the formal nights. On the other hand, if you are more comfortable in shorts and a t-shirt, then more power to you. The true problem is, as I referred to them in another post some time ago, is the cruise snobs. I just ask that you pass the pepper, and exercise true good manners of eating with your mouth closed, your napkin on your lap, and your hat off your head.

In conclusion, it is not bad manners to not wear formal clothes to formal night, except to the pretentious people who have been duped into believing an 8 oz. steak, ruined with a sauce, is worth $40. What is bad manners is to believe that another person is less of a person because he/she carries themselves in a different way than you do.

 

Fully support your point of view. In addition my Wife do follow the dress code, firstly because we enjoy the chance to put on our best, but also our of respect for other guests.

With regard to manners - Do not get me on my "soap box" on this subject, as one could go on!

[richsea]

I just find it ironic that someone who admits to seeing a bajillion dress code threads over time feels compelled to start hey another one!:eek:

[PORT ROYAL]

I just find it ironic that someone who admits to seeing a bajillion dress code threads over time feels compelled to start hey another one!:eek:

 

Probably had to think it fully through, or just only now being brave enough to post.

[BKFlowerMound]

Question. If airlines lose my luggage with all my clothing, do I have to spend the

cruise in my stateroom? We are both ++size so replacement from ships stores is

probably not an option.

 

Answer: It's very likely the answer is "No." A word with the headwaiter would see you welcomed in with no problems. On our Silhouette cruise last year, they were handing out jackets to those without them on Formal Night. Yet there was a family in shorts who were ushered right in to the MDR. Lost luggage.

[Caribbean Chris]

There's a clothing continuum of what is appropriate where. Your parents or peers, local custom, or sometimes public officials inform you about their required standards of appropriate.

Examples:

 

Naked - no, sorry, you can't run around that way outside your home or private hotel or ship room. But some beaches some countries, no problem. Other beaches in other countries, not only bad manners but against the law.

 

Your underwear - Keep it at home, even if Madonna doesn't.

 

Your pajamas -same (but I've seen them in ship buffets. Often wonder if they wander into restaurants that way back home.)

 

Your bathing suit - pool yes, but please cover up going to an indoor restaurant. Other people are trying to eat and your exposed flesh may not be pretty.

 

...and so on.

 

At the other end of the continuum, most would agree that you would look silly or bizarre going to a back yard cookout in a formal gown and tuxedo.

 

The problem is the middle part of the continuum. Society gets more casual every year. There was a Downton Abbey episode where a character had to "dress down" in a tuxedo for dinner because his usual white tie dinner clothing didn't get back in time.

 

Your definition of appropriate may differ from mine. A women's sports team that wore flip flops to meet President Bush at the White House proved this fact.

 

Fortunately, cruise line officials come to the rescue and explain in detail what is appropriate. All you have to do is go with the flow and observe these guidelines. And that is good manners.

[BKFlowerMound]

All just my opinion:

 

It is bad manners to not follow the written dress code if you know about it.

 

It is bad manners not to do the minimal research necessary to find out what the written dress code is.

 

It is bad manners to comment on people in writing or in person who aren't following the dress code.

 

It is bad manners to point out other people's bad manners.

 

It is bad manners not to break up your post with paragraphs.

 

It was bad manners of me to comment on this post.

 

It is much easier to have bad manners on the Internet than while eating a nice meal in the MDR.

 

I am a hypocrite. So are most people.

 

With all sincerity, I hope everyone has the best time of their lives on their next Celebrity cruise and have a great Mother's Day to all you mothers out there.

[POPDISPLAY]

Wouldn't this issue simply vanish if X established exact requirements and then enforced them with n a z i like vigor?

 

All passengers MUST sign on the dotted line when they book passage. A couple of paragraphs in the same document, citing exact requirements for MDR evening dining attire would provide all of the advance notice X need supply. One's signature establishes a contract and an agreement. Don't like the rules governing a particular line's MDR dress code? Find another line.

 

Then- it's just a matter of enforcement.

Jeans, stylish or ripped/patched? Eintritt verboten

No jacket on formal night? Eintritt verboten

No collared shirt? Eintritt verboten

Spandex pants? Eintritt verboten

Visible bra straps? Eintritt verboten

Cruise line lost your luggage? Eintritt verboten (Utilitarian doctrine prescribes that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few)

 

etc, etc, etc

[Jane2357]

I'm just not getting the controversy - you booked a cruise - a dress code was in place - and if you don't wish to comply the cruise line provides you with alternative dining locations (specialty/buffet/room service). So why isn't everyone happy? Oh right, because now smart casual isn't making you happy.

 

I'll wear my formal in the MDR or I can wear it to specialty knowing that others there might just be in their choice of smart casual. I would not expect to eat next to a gentleman wearing shorts :eek: - no sir please keep your hairy legs to yourself please - LOL ;)

 

I book a cruise looking forward to formal nights - I agree with others that have stated that those who are extremely opposed to formal wear and don't wish to do smart casual in an alternative dining location should be booking on a different line.

 

I'm not trying to alter your cruise experience as laid out by X's dress code - so why are you trying to dumb down mine? !

[POPDISPLAY]

I'm just not getting the controversy - you booked a cruise - a dress code was in place - and if you don't wish to comply the cruise line provides you with alternative dining locations (specialty/buffet/room service). So why isn't everyone happy? Oh right, because now smart casual isn't making you happy.

 

I'll wear my formal in the MDR or I can wear it to specialty knowing that others there might just be in their choice of smart casual. I would not expect to eat next to a gentleman wearing shorts :eek: - no sir please keep your hairy legs to yourself please - LOL ;)

 

I book a cruise looking forward to formal nights - I agree with others that have stated that those who are extremely opposed to formal wear and don't wish to do smart casual in an alternative dining location should be booking on a different line.

 

I'm not trying to alter your cruise experience as laid out by X's dress code - so why are you trying to dumb down mine? !

 

 

IMO, it all boils down to 1 perspective. Passengers don't want to be told anything. If a passenger is paying for a cruise- said passenger wants to do as she/he pleases, when he/she pleases.

 

It would be interesting, however, to see passengers who are less than content with their inside staterooms, simply move into the suites because policies regarding occupancy don't apply to them.

[Merriem]

This is something to discuss with the cruise line, since they (not their passengers) are the one who has set the "dress code". Celebrity's formal guidelines are not strict in any way shape or form. I really enjoy dressing up on formal night (I actually thought I was too dressed up for both formal nights, based on the other passengers), but there were many women in what I would call day dresses or smart casual wear and there were men in jeans, long sleeve shirts not tucked in and there didn't seem to be a problem. People were dressed in the whole spectrum of clothes on formal night.

 

I believe cruise lines have dress codes to keep their dining rooms/ships at a certain atmosphere and that is their decision. I remember when you could not wear jeans in the MDR on Celebrity and that has changed. What I saw on my last cruise were ripped and torn jeans and yes they were allowed in the MDR, even though it said "no ripped or torn jeans". Point being, I'm sure if they start allowing shorts in the MDR, there are some that will take it to the extremes and start wearing jogging shorts and wife beater t-shirts...it is just human nature to push the envelope. Because, after all, smart casual to one person is totally different to another. BTW, I don't think it has anything to do with good or bad manners.

 

I totally agree with what you said. InJune we were on the Century in the MDR at lunch and there was a young guy at the table across from me wearing a baseball cap, red wife beater tee shirt , both elbows on the table, shoveling his food in. It was so repulsive I couldn't look at him. His lack of manners did not belong anywhere.

[Fouremco]

Wouldn't this issue simply vanish if X established exact requirements and then enforced them with n a z i like vigor?

 

All passengers MUST sign on the dotted line when they book passage. A couple of paragraphs in the same document, citing exact requirements for MDR evening dining attire would provide all of the advance notice X need supply. One's signature establishes a contract and an agreement. Don't like the rules governing a particular line's MDR dress code? Find another line.

 

Then- it's just a matter of enforcement.

Jeans, stylish or ripped/patched? Eintritt verboten

No jacket on formal night? Eintritt verboten

No collared shirt? Eintritt verboten

Spandex pants? Eintritt verboten

Visible bra straps? Eintritt verboten

 

etc, etc, etc

I suspect that Celebrity views its current definitions to be quite clear, even though many CC members would disagree. Where I might argue that dress shoes are an unwritten requirement, others might argue that there's nothing in the code to prevent them from wearing muddy work boots with their tux. Just no bare feet or flip flops.

 

While there may be some merit in your suggestion, I doubt that it would be an easy job to prepare an exhaustive list of what is (or isn't) acceptable. More importantly, I hope we never reach the point where it become necessary. Besides, while there is a raging debate here, I sense that it is actually far less of an issue onboard.

 

As for adding something to your booking contract, Celebrity already has the authority to prohibit your entry to a venue if you don't meet the dress code.

 

 

[Presto2]

I just find it ironic that someone who admits to seeing a bajillion dress code threads over time feels compelled to start hey another one!:eek:

 

Couldn't agree more --- I am totally fed up with posts for and against the dress code. I just see the titles to the threads and think "Light the blue touch paper and stand back"

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

:confused::eek::(

[gek]

Although I'm generally on here criticising the dress code I am actually of the opinion that it IS bad manners to ignore it. I also agree with Ma Bell that complaining to someone about what they are wearing is bad manners.

 

However I think that interpreting the dress code based on your own values, taste and personal experience is NOT bad manners at all. Women do this all the time and get away with it, and are even congratulated for it. The term "cocktail dress" seems to mean just about anything a woman wants it to. Men's kilts are another example of this.

 

Adapting a dress code to your own style is not bad manners. Ignoring it completely is.

 

Dress codes should give suggestions but not be strictly enforced. If properly publicised the majority of people will choose to dress appropriately based on their own personal taste. Those few who clearly are ignoring it can be gently reminded of this fact by Celebrity staff.

[SusieV]

That being said, a paid for dinner on a cruise ship is not a function that should demand one wear formal clothing.

 

That is indeed your opinion, but at this time Celebrity requests otherwise. I do consider it bad manners not to follow the published dress code if you plan to eat in the MDR. If you're up at the buffet, have at it if you enjoy T shirts and shorts, or smart casual attire if you prefer the specialty restaurants, which it seems from your post that you do not.

[Karen@Steve]

I occasionally post on these topics and in fact have laughingly referred to the dresscode police. In actuality, I don't understand why people even suggest it's okay not to dress for formal night in the MDR. You've signed up for a cruise on a ship in a Cruise Line that has an established dress code. Why do you do that? I don't get it. If you don't want to follow the code, why not sail on another line without the dresscode? Or just avoid the MDR?

 

I for one enjoy the dress up as there are so few occassions where it's appropriate any more. If I decide not to dress up, then there are plenty of choices for dining elsewhere on formal night.

 

I suppose it's just to prove a point for some people as in 'I know the rules and I think its cool to just ignore them'. I still don't really get it but if someone needs to show they can be different than everyone else, so be it.

[boogs]

However I think that interpreting the dress code based on your own values, taste and personal experience is NOT bad manners at all. Women do this all the time and get away with it, and are even congratulated for it. The term "cocktail dress" seems to mean just about anything a woman wants it to. Men's kilts are another example of this.

 

Adapting a dress code to your own style is not bad manners. Ignoring it completely is.

 

OK, then here is how I interpret the dress code per your suggestion:

 

Formal wear = a T-shirt with tux printed on it

Smart casual = what I wore when I took my last college exam

 

I should be dressed just fine, right? :D

 

I also don't understand the logic behind purchasing a cruise on a line that has specific guidelines in place, and then expecting to be exempt from them at your whim. Should we also be able to ignore the guidelines that ban throwing items overboard because we think it will be fun to do so? Should we also be able to ignore the guidelines of where smoking is not allowed because it is inconvenient for us? Should we also be able to ignore the guidelines that ban nude bathing at the pools because we prefer an all over tan? Should we also be able to ignore the guidelines that bans toddlers wearing diapers in pools and hot tubs because our child is such a cute little darling?

 

What is the limit to how many guidelines a person should be able to "interpret"?

[gek]

OK, then here is how I interpret the dress code per your suggestion:

 

Formal wear = a T-shirt with tux printed on it

Smart casual = what I wore when I took my last college exam

 

I should be dressed just fine, right? :D

 

I also don't understand the logic behind purchasing a cruise on a line that has specific guidelines in place, and then expecting to be exempt from them at your whim. Should we also be able to ignore the guidelines that ban throwing items overboard because we think it will be fun to do so? Should we also be able to ignore the guidelines of where smoking is not allowed because it is inconvenient for us? Should we also be able to ignore the guidelines that ban nude bathing at the pools because we prefer an all over tan? Should we also be able to ignore the guidelines that bans toddlers wearing diapers in pools and hot tubs because our child is such a cute little darling?

 

What is the limit to how many guidelines a person should be able to "interpret"?

 

I think the majority of people are not so stupid or as provocative to do what you are suggesting but for those who are good luck to them. They will be an insignificant minority.

 

Also the comparisons you give to guidelines that relate to public safety and health are invalid.

[Goofyisme]

I think the majority of people are not so stupid or as provocative to do what you are suggesting but for those who are good luck to them. They will be an insignificant minority.

 

Also the comparisons you give to guidelines that relate to public safety and health are invalid.

 

Unfortunately I think your faith in the people is misplaced. Just read these boards on both sides of what I will nicely call this debate.

[fortinweb]

Smart casual = what I wore when I took my last college exam

 

Love it! The definition of what "Smart Casual" is has finally been settled! :D

[wallie5446]

Hello? Life & death topic here``````````````

[ghstudio]

 

Then- it's just a matter of enforcement.

Jeans, stylish or ripped/patched? Eintritt verboten

No jacket on formal night? Eintritt verboten

No collared shirt? Eintritt verboten

Spandex pants? Eintritt verboten

Visible bra straps? Eintritt verboten

Cruise line lost your luggage? Eintritt verboten (Utilitarian doctrine prescribes that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few)

 

etc, etc, etc

 

What....visible bra straps and tight spandex pants are not allowed.....where is that written? Next thing you know, we'll have to ban anyone with a visible tattoo from dining the the MDR.

[drarill]

I'm just not getting the controversy - you booked a cruise - a dress code was in place - and if you don't wish to comply the cruise line provides you with alternative dining locations (specialty/buffet/room service). So why isn't everyone happy? Oh right, because now smart casual isn't making you happy.

 

I'll wear my formal in the MDR or I can wear it to specialty knowing that others there might just be in their choice of smart casual. I would not expect to eat next to a gentleman wearing shorts :eek: - no sir please keep your hairy legs to yourself please - LOL ;)

 

I book a cruise looking forward to formal nights - I agree with others that have stated that those who are extremely opposed to formal wear and don't wish to do smart casual in an alternative dining location should be booking on a different line.

 

I'm not trying to alter your cruise experience as laid out by X's dress code - so why are you trying to dumb down mine? !

I totally agree with you!!!:):)

[Canusa02]

Like!

 

I, unlike the OP, do not live in an area that shorts have become acceptable wear at all occasions. I follow dress cos because that is the expectation set by the cruise line. Luckily there are multiple venues should I chose to follow the beat of my own drummer.

 

I never said shorts were acceptable at all occasions. I also don't consider the cruise line a host, any more than one would consider a local restaurant owner a host.

I did say that I enjoyed dressing formally for formal nights, but it shouldn't be a big deal if someone chooses not to, as long as they are wearing acceptable wear for the same type eatery on the mainland. Some people have to save a few years to go on one cruise, so the extra baggage charge and, in some cases, the extra clothing purchase, may make it impossible for them to ever enjoy the full cruise experience. That would be a bigger shame than somebody being offended because the guy at the next table wore shorts.