Carnival Pride to leave Baltimore

[madelinerose]

in November 2014.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/news/2013/06/27/carnival-pride-ship-to-end-baltimore.html?ana=twt

[madelinerose]

Also, from The Baltimore Sun...

 

http://www.baltimoresun.com/features/green/blog/bs-gr-carnival-pride-departing-20130627,0,2053472.story

[Keith1010]

Thanks for posting this.

 

Keith

[cot427]

Thanks for Posting the Sun Article...I was surprised that CC didn't do a news story on it yet. I can't believe Carnival is gonna leave Royal Caribbean to have the port all to itself.

[rkacruiser]

This whole thing is so unfortunate and it borders on being silly on the part of the EPA.

 

In the 2nd Quarter Conference call this week, Carnival said that scrubbers will be retro-fitted to most of their fleet during 2014. 2 engines per ship need to have the scrubbers at a cost of $1.0-1.5 million per engine.

 

If the EPA would be patient, what they want will be accomplished with no economic disruption for the good people of Baltimore and Maryland.

[rubytue]

This does make me sad, because I think Baltimore is a great cruise port. But perhaps now Cruise Maryland can work to bring NCL back.

 

Yeah, I'm still laboring under the delusion a Jewel class ship can fit under the Key Bridge.

[chengkp75]

This whole thing is so unfortunate and it borders on being silly on the part of the EPA.

 

In the 2nd Quarter Conference call this week, Carnival said that scrubbers will be retro-fitted to most of their fleet during 2014. 2 engines per ship need to have the scrubbers at a cost of $1.0-1.5 million per engine.

 

If the EPA would be patient, what they want will be accomplished with no economic disruption for the good people of Baltimore and Maryland.

 

Sorry, I don't see this as the EPA's fault. This fuel requirement went into effect August 2012. The entire maritime industry knew about it for a couple of years before that. All ships calling on US ports, whether US flag or foreign, whether cruise or cargo have been meeting this requirement at every US port and out to 200 miles since last August. NCL and RCI have obtained waivers from the EPA for already installing scrubbers on some ships, why is Carnival so far behind? And, in 2015, the sulfur requirement goes down 90%, from 1.0% to 0.1%. And is Carnival planning on shipyarding ALL of their ships in 2014 to install scrubbers? That would be a major financial hit.

 

I'm wondering about the statement from Carnival that only two engines need scrubbers. That would imply that they are not planning on running the ships at anywhere close to full speed within 200 miles of the US coast (yes, there is a narrow band of about 40 miles between Florida and the Bahamas), but with most ships having 4-6 engines, even getting to 12-14 knots requires 3 engines. Hmm.

[mikedw]

I personally thing that Carnival has a plan in that they're hoping another cruise line comes in and then they'll tell the state we want to come back and promise to sail for so many years, but the cruise terminal is at capacity. Build us another one and knowing this state, they'll find the money and build a second passenger terminal.

[chengkp75]

I personally thing that Carnival has a plan in that they're hoping another cruise line comes in and then they'll tell the state we want to come back and promise to sail for so many years, but the cruise terminal is at capacity. Build us another one and knowing this state, they'll find the money and build a second passenger terminal.

 

Starting to see some info coming from Carnival that might make some sense of all this. Carnival is behind in installing scrubbers on their ships, so I think that they are re-porting them to Florida for the short term so that they can minimize the fuel cost impact until the scrubbers are installed and fares are starting to pay for them. Then they will start to open ports up again. The demographics aren't changing, and I don't think Carnival cares about alienating cruisers or local governments by bailing on ports and then returning in a few years, as they keep filling the ships no matter what. As long as ports and itineraries were filling, and the itineraries were making money, they will return to them. Carnival is cutting costs to cover expenses like the Concordia and Triumph, so avoiding the high cost US fuel requirement is a no brainer from a corporate viewpoint.

[chengkp75]

Did a little research on scrubbers. The NCL Pride of America, which operates exclusively within the US ECA, had 4 scrubbers installed at her last drydock. The scrubber will allow her to use the old standard 3.5% sulfur heavy fuel oil, and still meet the new SOX emissions requirements. Given her itinerary of 100% time in the US ECA, this is a roughly 4 year payback (cost of scrubbers vs cost savings on fuel). RCI's Liberty of the Seas has had a scrubber for over 2 years, so proven data is available. The real question is, why is Carnival so far behind?

[DanJ]

This does make me sad, because I think Baltimore is a great cruise port. But perhaps now Cruise Maryland can work to bring NCL back.

 

Yeah, I'm still laboring under the delusion a Jewel class ship can fit under the Key Bridge.

 

Are you suggesting a Jewel can't fit? Has NCL specifically said this?

[chengkp75]

Are you suggesting a Jewel can't fit? Has NCL specifically said this?

 

My searches show the Key Bridge to be 185' high, and the Jewel class ships to be 195' high, though data is a little sketchy.

[mikedw]

My searches show the Key Bridge to be 185' high, and the Jewel class ships to be 195' high, though data is a little sketchy.

 

Isn't the Norwegian Jade a Jewel Class ship? Because when she was the Pride of Hawaii, Baltimore was her first stop in the US, and she was there for about a week at the cruise terminal. They were doing some last minute work and picking up crew from Piney Pt. Had a very nice tour onboard her.

[chengkp75]

Isn't the Norwegian Jade a Jewel Class ship? Because when she was the Pride of Hawaii, Baltimore was her first stop in the US, and she was there for about a week at the cruise terminal. They were doing some last minute work and picking up crew from Piney Pt. Had a very nice tour onboard her.

 

Yes. I forgot about POH going to Baltimore. As I said, data is a little sketchy. I could not find the "air draft" (height above waterline) for the Jewel class, just a figure for "height" on a presentation fact sheet. To a mariner, "height" means from keel to mast top, but for a presentation, it might mean waterline to mast top. If we assume that it is nautically correct, given a "height" of 195 feet, and a draft of 8.5meters (27.5 feet), then you would have an air draft of 167 feet, or a clearance of 18 feet under the bridge. And the height of the bridge was not stated as being at mean water, so low tide could make a difference, and vessel "squat" or the down suction of a fast moving hull in shallow water, could add a couple of feet.

[rubytue]

There was a thread awhile ago where I was discussing this and people were telling me a Jewel class ship couldn't fit. But I would be happy to stand corrected!

 

I happen to love NCL, and I would love to cruise out of Baltimore.

[chengkp75]

There was a thread awhile ago where I was discussing this and people were telling me a Jewel class ship couldn't fit. But I would be happy to stand corrected!

 

I happen to love NCL, and I would love to cruise out of Baltimore.

 

Both the Jewel and the Gem are scheduled for drydock in 2014, so if they are to be fitted with exhaust scrubbers like the POA, they would be a fine fit for Baltimore. The Gem is already on the East Coast, and either a NYC or Baltimore itinerary would benefit from a scrubber. The Jewel sailing from NOLA or in Alaska would also benefit from the scrubber. Interesting.

[rubytue]

Oh, apparently I am totally misremembering the discussion from last fall. Looks like we (including me - lol) proved they could get into Baltimore.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1642075&highlight=baltimore+ncl&page=2