Why no life guards??

[H&J]

The solution for the pool(s) and hot tubs is pretty simple: Post a prominent sign stating that "Passengers under the age of 18 without present parental/guardian supervision will be removed from the ship along with all others in their party at the next port."

 

Draconian? You bet but if enforced would solve the problem.

 

By the way, who in their right mind would want to climb into the "human soup" anyway? I don't care how much chlorine they dump and have the filter pumps going at warp speed, I still wouldn't dip a toe in those cess pools.

[Charles4515]

 

By the way, who in their right mind would want to climb into the "human soup" anyway? I don't care how much chlorine they dump and have the filter pumps going at warp speed, I still wouldn't dip a toe in those cess pools.

 

I also avoid going into the pools on ships. I think cess pools is close to the mark. I have even seen parents taking infants who cant be potty trained yet into the pools even though it is against the posted rules. Not enforced well either. I do like sitting in loungers by he pool but I won't go in. Hot tubs I will sometimes do the ones that are in an adult only area but not often. I hate to bring up our condo pool again but in our area pools are highly regulated. In addition to the lifeguards taking readings the county comes by often, inspects and measures chlorine and bacteria. They will close pool in a heartbeat if it is not right. Not sure that a cruise line would do the same.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Charles4515

[chengkp75]

I also avoid going into the pools on ships. I think cess pools is close to the mark. I have even seen parents taking infants who cant be potty trained yet into the pools even though it is against the posted rules. Not enforced well either. I do like sitting in loungers by he pool but I won't go in. Hot tubs I will sometimes do the ones that are in an adult only area but not often. I hate to bring up our condo pool again but in our area pools are highly regulated. In addition to the lifeguards taking readings the county comes by often, inspects and measures chlorine and bacteria. They will close pool in a heartbeat if it is not right. Not sure that a cruise line would do the same.

 

I wasn't going to weigh in on the lifeguard issue, but since you bring up the pool sanitation, I feel that clarification is required. Pool chemistry and cleanliness is a part of the USPH Vessel Sanitation Program. Not only are periodic readings taken, but there are 24 hour recording devices that record the chlorine and Ph levels in each pool and hot tub. These are required to be kept for 2 years, and when the USPH comes aboard, they are reviewed intently to see whether standards have been maintained every day. A single low chlorine reading can result in a 5 point (maximum possible) deduction in the ship's USPH inspection score. The 3 to 10ppm chlorine levels required by USPH in hot tubs are higher than nearly any municipal or shoreside codes, and the hot tubs must be shock chlorinated to 100ppm every 24 hours. So the companies have a decided interest in keeping the pools and hot tubs at required levels or face poor USPH scores, and possible detention from sailing. So, yes, they will close a pool or hot tub in a heartbeat if the chemistry is not correct.

 

Having said that, one area where the passengers fail to comply with USPH requirements is using the showers before and after using the pools and hot tubs. The oil in sunscreen can form a film on the water surface, which interferes with the chlorine's ability to react to bacteria. The showers are not only to remove dirt and bacteria/viruses from you before getting in the water, but removing the oil from skin, sunscreen, or tanning oil.

Edited August 6, 2013 by chengkp75

[Charles4515]

I wasn't going to weigh in on the lifeguard issue, but since you bring up the pool sanitation, I feel that clarification is required. Pool chemistry and cleanliness is a part of the USPH Vessel Sanitation Program. Not only are periodic readings taken, but there are 24 hour recording devices that record the chlorine and Ph levels in each pool and hot tub. These are required to be kept for 2 years, and when the USPH comes aboard, they are reviewed intently to see whether standards have been maintained every day. A single low chlorine reading can result in a 5 point (maximum possible) deduction in the ship's USPH inspection score. The 3 to 10ppm chlorine levels required by USPH in hot tubs are higher than nearly any municipal or shoreside codes, and the hot tubs must be shock chlorinated to 100ppm every 24 hours. So the companies have a decided interest in keeping the pools and hot tubs at required levels or face poor USPH scores, and possible detention from sailing. So, yes, they will close a pool or hot tub in a heartbeat if the chemistry is not correct.

 

Having said that, one area where the passengers fail to comply with USPH requirements is using the showers before and after using the pools and hot tubs. The oil in sunscreen can form a film on the water surface, which interferes with the chlorine's ability to react to bacteria. The showers are not only to remove dirt and bacteria/viruses from you before getting in the water, but removing the oil from skin, sunscreen, or tanning oil.

 

Thanks. That is good to know about Vessel Sanitation program. Now I won't consider going into the ships pools a bad idea. I did not know the CDC inspections included the pools and hot tubs.

 

Good info on the showers before and after. I did not know about the sunscreen interfering with the chlorine.

[chengkp75]

Thanks. That is good to know about Vessel Sanitation program. Now I won't consider going into the ships pools a bad idea. I did not know the CDC inspections included the pools and hot tubs.

 

Good info on the showers before and after. I did not know about the sunscreen interfering with the chlorine.

 

While I wouldn't consider the pools a bad idea, my personal preference is to avoid the hot tubs like the plague. USPH will tell you that the optimum breeding temperature for legionnella (legionnaire's disease) is 104*F (just the temp most hot tubs are kept at), and then we aerosolize the water (air jets), so we breath in water vapor. Not my cup of tea.

 

The USPH inspections cover galley, restaurant, and food storage construction, cleanliness, and operation, food safety, potable water, pools and recreational water facilities, medical recording, pest control, chemical storage, lighting and ventilation, sewage treatment, backflow prevention to protect the potable water system, laundry facilities and operations, and even crew and passenger cabin sanitation including the monthly sanitizing of all shower heads (prime breeding ground for legionella). And God forbid if you don't have sanitizing documentation for each and every one of the 3000+ shower heads, individually.

[Charles4515]

I can see why cruise lines do not provide lifeguards. They would just be used as baby sitters. It is a huge liability. They put the responsibility on the parents because so many people just leave their kids unattended. Some parents think their kids are responsible enough to be left without their supervision, then want to blame someone when something happens. Kids are kids. Mine are grown and I don't want to be responsible for yours on my vacation. Doesn't the Kids club take them to the kids pool? I don't know anything about that, but I would think that's why they are there, to provide supervision when parents want time to themselves.

 

Well all you naysayers, a cruise line has put lifeguards at their pools. Good work Disney! All the rest should follow and add lifeguards.

 

http://*******.com/k5buc8e

Edited October 30, 2013 by Charles4515

[vols_159]

Well all you naysayers, a cruise line has put added lifeguards at their pools. Good work Disney! All the rest should follow and add lifeguards.

 

http://*******.com/k5buc8e

 

 

If parents would put down there kindle iphone and beer and watch THERE KIDS.. Lifeguards wouldnt be needed

[45014]

I think the whole ship should be enclosed in steel mesh netting, because more people have gone over board than have drowned in cruise ship pools........has anyone ever drown in a cruise ship pool?? ...as in dead drowned???

 

Yes, as a matter of fact, a 6yr.old little boy drowned on a cruise ship very recently.

[pliskin]

For the record, a 6 year old drowned on the Carnival Victory 2 weeks ago.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/14/us/florida-boy-drowns-carnival-cruise/

[rigs32]

What about private islands? Should the ships also provide lifeguards there? With what staffing? What about language barriers?

 

Don't most ships have 3-4 pools? Will they all need to be staffed? Would this mean a shortening of pool hours? No pools on embarkation day as the lifeguards assist with readying the ship?

 

I personally think having such staff for such small pools is silly. No one should swim alone. And some parents would absolutely abdicates responsibility knowing there is a lifeguard.

[Demonyte]

Well all you naysayers, a cruise line has put lifeguards at their pools. Good work Disney! All the rest should follow and add lifeguards.

 

Good for Disney, but they are already a) a lot more expensive and b) more focused for families with children. That's two reasons why I prefer staying with NCL where I don't have to pay for a lot of already included and (for me) unnecessary extras in my cruise fee - like the costs coming from having lifeguards on duty just because there are parents that won't look after their children.

[legion3]

Having been a disney lifeguard, having been a coast guard rescue swimmer, someone with all the training in the world may not make a difference in the outcome of a tragedy.

 

Disney has lifeguards at their resort pools, sometimes. Disney resort pools are guarded, sometimes and not all of them. Certain pools are not guarded at all. Certain pools are guarded only for certain hours and those pools never truly close.

 

Many times I have gone to open a pool only to find a adult guest sleeping in one. One guy had taken all of the lifejackets and connected them to gether to make himself a floating cot.

 

It was a nightmare to guard the pools at the budget disney resorts, all-stars and the like. As the pools were the only form a recreation basically. Hundreds of screaming kids, it was often hard to determine what was a scream for joy and distress.

 

The all star resorts had 6 pools. The 3 main pools were guarded between 8-5:30 ish. That was it. After that your on your own. The 3 side or smaller pools were guarded only part of that time or not at all.

 

I was offered to go guard at castaway key but didn't want to do that. Lifeguarding a cruise ship would suck. It could be done but as orthers have said it would be something many parents would take advantage of in a big way.

[Robin7]

Personally, even with the liability risk, I think having lifeguards on ships is a good concept, I just don't think it's very realistic, and certainly nowhere near as simple as guarding a condo pool. You would need to place a guard chair right next to each pool, with physical and visual paths that must be kept clear to all water venues (including hot tubs) - and keeping those physical paths clear would be a nightmare, and the visual path would be even worse. Then each chair would have to have a minimum of two guards, one to take care of all the constant annoyances ("Do you know if that chair is taken?", "What temperature is the pool?", " Is this salt or fresh water?", "Have you seen a little boy with blond hair and a green suit?", "Where can I get a towel", etc etc etc) and the other one to actually keep watch. Then you would need replacement guards for each of those, for rotating and breaks. So basically, I think you're talking about a minimum of eight to twelve guards staffed on each ship, and probably a minimum of 300-500 sf of deck space dedicated to them (with visual paths it could be four or five times that amount), not sure how well that would go over with already annoyed and overcrowded guests. Add to that the increased pay for the extra personnel and much higher liability costs, plus the complaints by guests, and our cruises could easily increase by a recognizable amount. I'm sure there has been given much thought to risk assessment here, and the decision to not have guards was not made lightly.

 

Robin

 

Yes! We took our lifeguard son on a Carnival cruise over Spring Break as his high school graduation present. He took one look at the pools and was horrified. He said they'd need to have at least ten guards per pool to watch that many people. And he also said the job would be highly stressful and very difficult unless they could cap the number of people actually in the pool. (I'm thinking THAT would go over not-so-well with pax.) I believe his actual words were, "Guarding those pools would be a nightmare!"

 

Robin too. (Getting ready to book our first NCL cruise...)

[Irene7]

That is your opinion that they are not needed. Others have a different opinion.

 

I agree with you. I think they should have them, a just a sign stating that there are no life guards on duty will not save their butts in court. I do however, think it will give some - not all - but some parents a false sense of security, but I look it it this way. There are a lot of parents that are not paying attention to their children so a least the kids have the lifeguards although they should not be treated like baby sitter.

 

And for the good parents that do watch their children, there are signs of drowning that only a trained eye can pick up on. I have read about children drowning in a pool only a few feet away from the parent. All parents should research what to look for. My daughter was a lifeguard and rescued a 5 yr old boy that was being watched by his father who had no idea that his son was drowning until my daughter dove in the pool after him.

 

I feel lifeguards should at least be at the family pools.

[Irene7]

Well all you naysayers, a cruise line has put lifeguards at their pools. Good work Disney! All the rest should follow and add lifeguards.

 

http://*******.com/k5buc8e

 

Ditto! I applaud Disney!

[Irene7]

I think the whole ship should be enclosed in steel mesh netting, because more people have gone over board than have drowned in cruise ship pools........has anyone ever drown in a cruise ship pool?? ...as in dead drowned???

 

A six year old boy actually drowned earlier this month on one of the CCL ships.

[Irene7]

I don't think some of you understand what a lifeguard really does. Sure they will pull someone out of the water, but anyone can do that. It is what they do once they are out of the water, thats what counts. Did the person hit there head?, are they not breathing?, are they in shock? All of these things are what a trained lifeguard will be able to spot and react to quickly. Sure there may be someone on deck who can help or they can rush the ship doctor to the pool, but in alot of situations it is seconds that will count, not minutes. There is no doubt that there should be a visible lifeguard around the pools.

 

Excellent post!!! These trained lifeguards can also detect drowning when others think it is playing. And as far as the pools being crowded so there is always someone there. A person can drown right next to them so a lot of help they are. Some of the pools are 6 feet deep so a child can go under very easily.

[jp2001]

I don't think some of you understand what a lifeguard really does. Sure they will pull someone out of the water, but anyone can do that. It is what they do once they are out of the water, thats what counts. Did the person hit there head?, are they not breathing?, are they in shock? All of these things are what a trained lifeguard will be able to spot and react to quickly. Sure there may be someone on deck who can help or they can rush the ship doctor to the pool, but in alot of situations it is seconds that will count, not minutes. There is no doubt that there should be a visible lifeguard around the pools.

 

ALL ship personnel have CPR/First Aid training, it's a requirement to work onboard a ship (any ship).

[Irene7]

Well if you think they need life guards then maybe you shiould invest in an adult one of these, see pic.

 

:rolleyes:

[legion3]

ALL ship personnel have CPR/First Aid training, it's a requirement to work onboard a ship (any ship).

 

Not sure that just having the training is enough. I have been in situations where everyone was trained and nobody moved. Lots of people have training and simply watch or call security or freeze up. Lifeguard train and drill multiple times a month, get tested and audited. The waiter trying to sell you the current overpriced drink of the day is not likely the person I count on to save me or someone else.

 

But thats me. I'll take an ellis trained guard over the bongo player...

[legion3]

Also lifeguards are designed to prevent by vigilance, keeping potential problems from becoming tragedies. Lifeguards are really one of the only castmembers at disney that can tell guests NO without fear of management retribution or usually they don't.

 

If you have gotten to the point that cpr training is needed you have reached the level of a tragedy.

 

And in my experience cpr is often of little value. Prevention is better than compressions.

[swedish weave]

Here is a solution...... Since most ships have two pools, one could have lifeguards and the other has not.

 

Those who want lifeguards check in with their key card and use that pool. The cost of the lifeguard could be divided among those who use it and billed to those people.

 

Any bets on how well that would go over ???

[deepnite10]

not recently..i was sitting by the pool..just enjoying the view of the ladies:D..and I noticed a small child trying to swim across the shallow pool..

 

trained to detect fear on the face..i certainly saw it on this child as he was about to go down a second time..yes, I jumped in and grabbed the child under his arms and pushed him to the side of the pool..*** was the parents..

 

dad comes running over seeing the kid crying and proceed s to chew my ass..others who witnessed the incident came to my defense..did I get a simple TY..father just turn d and walked away scolding his child..

 

should we legislate stupidity? :confused:

Edited October 30, 2013 by deepnite10

[rvsullivan]

You'll never convince the folks that want to have all of their problems taken care of for them.

Once you post life guards, the cruise line accepts liability for the safety of the child/adult. As long as they don' have an outright dangerous situation the fact is that the parents are responsible, as they should be. As I said before, the parents would never stand for their little Johnny/Sally being reprimanded by the hired help. As soon as you tried to kick one of them out of the pool they would be with the Hotel Director demanding money for their kids "trauma".

[Charles4515]

Here is a solution...... Since most ships have two pools, one could have lifeguards and the other has not.

 

Those who want lifeguards check in with their key card and use that pool. The cost of the lifeguard could be divided among those who use it and billed to those people.

 

Any bets on how well that would go over ???

 

If you don't want lifeguards don't go a cruise line that has them. Much simpler solution.