Flying Air France

[ducklite]

While I concur with most of these remarks, how a person decides to spend their travel dollars is theirs. I am a large person that eats health and exercises, yet find some airline seats uncomfortable for long trips.

 

If you are a linebacker for an NCL team, regular coach seats won't cut it, but you could probably afford to pay for Business. There are some people that eat healthy and exercise and are just large frame people don't do well in coach seating.

 

We usually upgrade to economy comfort on long flights, like from the US to China or Australia, but don't for shorter flights within the US.

 

The best coach seats we have found were on Virgin Australia, which had more leg room and a special mechanism allowing for a significant recline.

 

I understand that airlines have to make a profit. Airfares are much cheaper considering inflation than they were decades ago. However, once an airline cuts the size of the seat down too much, I will find another airline. Right now, the seats on Delta and United aren't that bad. Just hope they don't get smaller.

 

I agree that how they spend their money is their choice, my point is that if they don't choose to spend it on more space, they lose the right to complain.

 

 

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[Lookingforfacts]

People want both more space and cheap tickets. You can't have both, airlines are not charities, they are businesses that are expected by their shareholders to make a profit. Until their market research finds that they can't fill seats because passengers are paying more to fly on an airline that provides more space, they have no reason to change their business model. It's already been proven that passengers prefer the status quo, smaller space in order to have smaller prices. Those who want more space find the cash to upgrade.

 

As to the sad fact that people are getting larger, this is not the responsibility of the carrier.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

 

I spent an extra $158 (O/W) to upgrade two seats to Delta's Economy Comfort. I got a few extra inches of leg room but the slimline seats were extremely uncomfortable. By comparison the older, regular economy seats, on the flight back were great. I'm going to start taking one of the inflatable cushions and you might start needing to use your yoga mat. I accept bringing my own headphones, food, even a pillow. Something is wrong if even passengers without any weight issues need to bring a cushion or can't comfortably sit in the seats.

 

I agree with you, but only to a point. A business has to cater to the needs of their customers. New stadiums have wider seats then older stadiums Older broadway theaters have narrow seats. Uncomfortable for customers of normal weight but you're only sitting for an hour or so. Narrow seats means more seats have a great view of the stage.

 

The point is some airlines are reducing the width, and pitch while their customers are getting bigger.

[ducklite]

I spent an extra $158 (O/W) to upgrade two seats to Delta's Economy Comfort. I got a few extra inches of leg room but the slimline seats were extremely uncomfortable. By comparison the older, regular economy seats, on the flight back were great. I'm going to start taking one of the inflatable cushions and you might start needing to use your yoga mat. I accept bringing my own headphones, food, even a pillow. Something is wrong if even passengers without any weight issues need to bring a cushion or can't comfortably sit in the seats.

 

I agree with you, but only to a point. A business has to cater to the needs of their customers. New stadiums have wider seats then older stadiums Older broadway theaters have narrow seats. Uncomfortable for customers of normal weight but you're only sitting for an hour or so. Narrow seats means more seats have a great view of the stage.

 

The point is some airlines are reducing the width, and pitch while their customers are getting bigger.

 

I would rather use the yoga mat I travel with anyhow than have the tickets cost 20% more (around $800) because there were less seats in the plane. Life is a series of compromises.

 

Again, I don't see where it is the carriers responsibility to accommodate the increasing girth of passengers--particularly because it will cause my fares to go up, and I don't need the extra space and am already paying for it when I want it.

 

PS--my husband has a folding stadium cushion that weighs 1.5 ounces and folds to 13.5 x 1 x 3" and adds a surprising amount of comfort to a hard seat. He'll bring that along. He also uses it folded for lumbar support, very handy little item that takes almost no room and weighs nothing.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

Edited November 2, 2013 by ducklite

[kenish]

A business has to cater to the needs of their customers.

 

The point is some airlines are reducing the width, and pitch while their customers are getting bigger.

 

Both are absolutely true. Customers have made it clear to airlines that low, low, prices are more important than seat comfort. Attempts to increase seating space fleetwide with a fare increase of a few dollars caused passengers to fly other airlines. Lesson delivered to the airlines by their customers.

 

Most airlines offer regular and upgraded economy seats. The latter are about $20-$150 more. The regular seats sell a lot more quickly than the upgraded seats, from personal experience on flights I've booked and flown. On AA, the "Main Cabin Extra" section often has open seats while regular economy is packed.

[twoputt.plusone]

People want both more space and cheap tickets. You can't have both, airlines are not charities, they are businesses that are expected by their shareholders to make a profit. Until their market research finds that they can't fill seats because passengers are paying more to fly on an airline that provides more space, they have no reason to change their business model. It's already been proven that passengers prefer the status quo, smaller space in order to have smaller prices. Those who want more space find the cash to upgrade.

 

As to the sad fact that people are getting larger, this is not the responsibility of the carrier. As someone who bothers to eat healthy and find the time to get some form of exercise for at least an hour a day in order to keep my weight in check, I find it difficult at best to have sympathy for those who don't bother and then complain about seats being tight.

 

Far too many who are complaining they can't afford to upgrade have two and three cruises a year in their signature. Perhaps they need to adjust their priorities if the smaller seat space is such a problem for them.

 

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

 

I didn't disagree with the points you made but there are much nicer ways to say it. It was the haughty tone I reacted to.

[jsmac3]

FlyerTalker, slidergirl, & ducklite:

 

I took your advice on how to move through CDG and making my connections there was painless. Becoming familiar with the layout there prior to landing was time well spent. Our first arrival was very early Sunday morning and I'm thinking it took no more than 15-20 minutes to move from E to F. The second arrival was on a Friday at noon and took a little longer - maybe 30 minutes to move fom F to M.

 

We were satisfied with Air France seating and legroom although a rather large passenger was seated next to us from CDG to Atlanta. The passenger occupied about 1/3 to 1/2 of my seat during the 9 hour flight - and being seating in the aisle seat of row 24 there was no seat in front so the passenger used my tray throughout the flight.

 

Still, no reason for me to avoid Air France or CDG.

 

Thanks to all of you for your advice.

Edited December 3, 2013 by jsmac3
Forgot to add thanks.

[slidergirl]

I'm glad to hear the transits went well for you. Sorry to hear about the POS on the one flight. I know it's too late, but - did you see if there was another seat available, talk to the FAs… That's way too long to be inconvenienced by someone who didn't think to buy a second seat or a seat up in Affaires…

 

A thought - it took you less time to transit CDG than it takes to transit through T4 at JFK most times!!!! It's taken me 45 minutes to just walk that one, never mind TSA, etc...

Edited December 3, 2013 by slidergirl

[jsmac3]

I'm glad to hear the transits went well for you. Sorry to hear about the POS on the one flight. I know it's too late, but - did you see if there was another seat available, talk to the FAs… That's way too long to be inconvenienced by someone who didn't think to buy a second seat or a seat up in Affaires…

 

A thought - it took you less time to transit CDG than it takes to transit through T4 at JFK most times!!!! It's taken me 45 minutes to just walk that one, never mind TSA, etc...

 

The flight was completely booked. One of the FAs was sympathetic - I don't know if I mentioned - the Purser offered me a glass of champagne, big whoop.

 

There were no lines on either occasion at passport control which I found surprising.

 

Our Kansas City to JFK flight was interesting . . . we disembarked from the plane outdoors - and then had to walk along these plywood corridor type things to a terminal and then take a shuttle bus to our next terminal. It took longer to navigate that then it did at CDG.

 

I found JFK to be very clean and everyone friendly - we had reasonably priced pizza that was very good.

 

Even Atlanta - we had to claim our bags and clear customs and re-check them - made it to our next gate in about 45 minutes.

[FlyerTalker]

A thought - it took you less time to transit CDG than it takes to transit through T4 at JFK most times!!!! It's taken me 45 minutes to just walk that one, never mind TSA, etc...

Not sure if it was here or elsewhere that I posted an observation about T4 at JFK. Yes, the new concourse has moving walkways. However, they only are where there are gate waiting areas. If there is a shop or food outlet, there is NO moving walkway in front. It forces EVERY passenger to walk past the storefront. Good for the merchant, but there are major stretches without a walkway. Unlike DTW, which is great IMO.

 

Our Kansas City to JFK flight was interesting . . . we disembarked from the plane outdoors - and then had to walk along these plywood corridor type things to a terminal and then take a shuttle bus to our next terminal. It took longer to navigate that then it did at CDG.

Yes...with the closure and demolition of T3, you have the separation between the old T2 and the new T4 operation. Bet it was an RJ that you flew in on.

 

All in all, glad that things worked out pretty well for you.

[ducklite]

FlyerTalker, slidergirl, & ducklite:

 

I took your advice on how to move through CDG and making my connections there was painless. Becoming familiar with the layout there prior to landing was time well spent. Our first arrival was very early Sunday morning and I'm thinking it took no more than 15-20 minutes to move from E to F. The second arrival was on a Friday at noon and took a little longer - maybe 30 minutes to move fom F to M.

 

We were satisfied with Air France seating and legroom although a rather large passenger was seated next to us from CDG to Atlanta. The passenger occupied about 1/3 to 1/2 of my seat during the 9 hour flight - and being seating in the aisle seat of row 24 there was no seat in front so the passenger used my tray throughout the flight.

 

Still, no reason for me to avoid Air France or CDG.

 

Thanks to all of you for your advice.

 

That's where the armrest comes down and tray table goes up and the inconsiderate person who didn't bother to book a larger or second seat deals with it.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[6rugrats]

.

 

We were satisfied with Air France seating and legroom although a rather large passenger was seated next to us from CDG to Atlanta. The passenger occupied about 1/3 to 1/2 of my seat during the 9 hour flight - and being seating in the aisle seat of row 24 there was no seat in front so the passenger used my tray throughout the flight.

 

I don't understand this. Why were they using your tray? They had their own. If someone doesn't fit in the seat, you need to speak quietly to the purser before the flight pulls away from the gate. That passenger is supposed to be off loaded. Does it always happen that way? No, unfortunately.

[kenish]

I don't understand this. Why were they using your tray? They had their own.

 

I think the oversize passenger's tray table didn't fit between their torso and the seatback in front. Hard to imagine, but I've seen it happen. Agree it's not jsmac's problem to solve or alleviate as you comment.

Edited December 4, 2013 by kenish

[ducklite]

I think the oversize passenger's tray table didn't fit between their torso and the seatback in front. Hard to imagine, but I've seen it happen. Agree it's not jsmac's problem to solve or alleviate as you comment.

 

Then they could have held whatever in their hand or on their lap. Not anyone's problem but theirs.

 

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

[kenish]

Then they could have held whatever in their hand or on their lap. Not anyone's problem but theirs.

 

Yes, we're in agreement. I can see meal service being a problem, but again not one that should be imposed on other passengers.

[jsmac3]

I don't understand this. Why were they using your tray? They had their own. If someone doesn't fit in the seat, you need to speak quietly to the purser before the flight pulls away from the gate. That passenger is supposed to be off loaded. Does it always happen that way? No, unfortunately.

 

The aisle seat on row 24 doesn't have a seat in front of it . . . like a front row or bulkhead seat, the tray comes out of their armrest . . . the passenger was too large for that tray to work or the tv screen.

 

I did have a discussion with FA, the Purser, and then the Pilot when I left the plane. This was a pretty sad situation, the passenger apologized, I told her it wasn't her fault - rather the airlines were to blame.

 

In situations like the it seems like really no one is in charge because they don't have the authority to do anything at this point - or maybe they just choose not to. Very similar to a dispute with a cruise line - they will apologize all day but do very little.

 

My follow on flight from Atlanta to Kansas City in Economy Comfort felt like first class.

[ducklite]

The aisle seat on row 24 doesn't have a seat in front of it . . . like a front row or bulkhead seat, the tray comes out of their armrest . . . the passenger was too large for that tray to work or the tv screen.

 

I did have a discussion with FA, the Purser, and then the Pilot when I left the plane. This was a pretty sad situation, the passenger apologized, I told her it wasn't her fault - rather the airlines were to blame.

 

In situations like the it seems like really no one is in charge because they don't have the authority to do anything at this point - or maybe they just choose not to. Very similar to a dispute with a cruise line - they will apologize all day but do very little.

 

My follow on flight from Atlanta to Kansas City in Economy Comfort felt like first class.

 

This is where I disagree. It WAS her fault for not buying a larger or second seat. I would not have tolerated it, and there is no way I would have allowed the use of my tray table.

 

The airline is only to blame for not deplaning her.

 

Autocorrect responsible for most typos...

Edited December 4, 2013 by ducklite