Gratuities

[chrispb]

Well you got that one right. Everybody does have their own opinion. Mine is that HAL's hotel service charge is just another name for their gratuity/tip.

 

Quite so. A rose is a rose etc.

 

Incidentally, I really don't believe there's a list of those who cancelled charges. I think the list is so that the cabin staff will remember the names of passengers. I just don't accept they will remember cruisers' names they last saw a year ago. If they do remember then I think that would be the exception rather than the rule.

[Fouremco]

Then why don't they call it the Automatic Gratuity?

Because they chose to call it a Hotel Service Charge.

[catl331]

Because they chose to call it a Hotel Service Charge.

No, because it is a charge. If it was a gratuity it would not count as on board spending for the bonus Mariner days.

 

I know that your mind is already made up, so I won't try to confuse you with any more facts! :p

Edited November 25, 2013 by catl331

[nana51]

I always tip well, usually 20% or more. I resent it though. I wish it was added into our account, and then people wouldn't remove it. I like the idea of the background people getting something too. However if they paid a decent wage the automatic tips wouldn't be necessary and we would feel free to tip for over and above service. Instead we all feel the need to tip everyone for everything because they need and depend on our tips so much. Hotels add a service charge which we have to pay so why isn't it just included in the fare? Because our little minds see the price of the hotel or cruise and don't "add" into the service charge costs until we've already signed up. Remember I don't mean seasoned cruisers, but new cruisers.

[jwm51]

Quite so. A rose is a rose etc.

 

Incidentally, I really don't believe there's a list of those who cancelled charges. I think the list is so that the cabin staff will remember the names of passengers. I just don't accept they will remember cruisers' names they last saw a year ago. If they do remember then I think that would be the exception rather than the rule.

 

Do a search. Someone posted a photo of that list you think is imaginary!:mad:

 

It is either in the kitchen or the employee's breakroom...

 

DO NOT think for 1 minute they don't know if that charge has been removed!:eek::mad:

[Aussiepair]

I really think the HSC, gratuities,tips or what ever you want to call them is an insult to the cruising public.

 

The only reason the cruise lines use this system is to keep the advertised cruise prices lower to try and fool the public into thinking they are getting a cheaper cruise.

 

It is the cruise lines responsibility to ensure their staff get paid an acceptable wage, not the cruising public.

 

The HSC should be removed and the charge should be added to the cost of all cruises, it is that simple, then those who want to tip for exceptional service can.

[Fouremco]

No, because it is a charge. If it was a gratuity it would not count as on board spending for the bonus Mariner days.

 

I know that your mind is already made up, so I won't try to confuse you with any more facts! :p

Ah, yes, when all else fails, make a personal attack on the people on the other side of the debate. Very mature of you.

[dvcmember]

What is the breakdown for the $11.50 Service Charge? (steward, server, etc...)

We are bringing cash, so I know it will go directly in their pockets.

Can we do this?

Our cruise leaves in a few days.

[catl331]

What is the breakdown for the $11.50 Service Charge? (steward, server, etc...)

We are bringing cash, so I know it will go directly in their pockets.

Can we do this?

Our cruise leaves in a few days.

If you remove the HSC and give cash, the stewards will be required to put that cash into the pool and in the end will likely receive less than if you left the HSC in place. They are given a list on the final night of the people who have removed the HSC.

 

The CD's used to quote figures of 35% to room stewards, 35% to MDR stewards and the rest to the "back of the house", but those are just averages, because it depends in part on their seniority. Some stewards get more, some less.

Edited November 25, 2013 by catl331

[startwin]

I really think the HSC, gratuities,tips or what ever you want to call them is an insult to the cruising public.

 

The only reason the cruise lines use this system is to keep the advertised cruise prices lower to try and fool the public into thinking they are getting a cheaper cruise.

 

It is the cruise lines responsibility to ensure their staff get paid an acceptable wage, not the cruising public.

 

The HSC should be removed and the charge should be added to the cost of all cruises, it is that simple, then those who want to tip for exceptional service can.

 

I entirely agree with your points. But probably because I also come from a culture which pays fairly and tipping is not required to supplement wages or salary. However, in the U.S., service workers are - I understand - paid well below minimum, therefore tipping is morally compulsory:( I just wish they would add it into the fare and have done with it.

[dvcmember]

Looks like I will use the HSC and then just give extra accordingly, that will be everyone.

[BruceMuzz]

I really think the HSC, gratuities,tips or what ever you want to call them is an insult to the cruising public.

 

The only reason the cruise lines use this system is to keep the advertised cruise prices lower to try and fool the public into thinking they are getting a cheaper cruise.

 

It is the cruise lines responsibility to ensure their staff get paid an acceptable wage, not the cruising public.

 

The HSC should be removed and the charge should be added to the cost of all cruises, it is that simple, then those who want to tip for exceptional service can.

 

My ship just spent two months cruising Australia / New Zealand. We carried a very high number of Australian pax who were very upset about paying a Service Charge, and complained bitterly about it. The vast majority of Aussies removed the service charges and tipped nothing. My crew were very upset about losing so much of their salary. Many resigned and will not be coming back.

 

We frequently went ashore in Australia for lunch and dinner. In most of the restaurants we visited, the service was abysmal - and the restaurant added a Service Charge to our bill. In one Fremantle Restaurant the service charge was 25% of the bill!! When we asked the restaurant managers about this "service charge", they informed us that it was not negotiable, and was used to pay the salaries of the service staff.

 

Seems to be a double standard in Australia.

[startwin]

My ship just spent two months cruising Australia / New Zealand. We carried a very high number of Australian pax who were very upset about paying a Service Charge, and complained bitterly about it. The vast majority of Aussies removed the service charges and tipped nothing. My crew were very upset about losing so much of their salary. Many resigned and will not be coming back.

 

We frequently went ashore in Australia for lunch and dinner. In most of the restaurants we visited, the service was abysmal - and the restaurant added a Service Charge to our bill. In one Fremantle Restaurant the service charge was 25% of the bill!! When we asked the restaurant managers about this "service charge", they informed us that it was not negotiable, and was used to pay the salaries of the service staff.

 

Seems to be a double standard in Australia.

 

Interesting. I've only visited Australia once, and never had that kind of service. the UK also adds an auto tip to the bill. Also got good service there with one exception. But both countries pay service industry workers a fair wage. Cruise lines should do the same, so there's no gamble as to how much the workers get paid. Include the HSC in with the fare, as well as pay a decent wage.

[erewhon]

My ship just spent two months cruising Australia / New Zealand. We carried a very high number of Australian pax who were very upset about paying a Service Charge, and complained bitterly about it. The vast majority of Aussies removed the service charges and tipped nothing. My crew were very upset about losing so much of their salary. Many resigned and will not be coming back.

 

We frequently went ashore in Australia for lunch and dinner. In most of the restaurants we visited, the service was abysmal - and the restaurant added a Service Charge to our bill. In one Fremantle Restaurant the service charge was 25% of the bill!! When we asked the restaurant managers about this "service charge", they informed us that it was not negotiable, and was used to pay the salaries of the service staff.

 

Seems to be a double standard in Australia.

 

Is this a Holland America Line ship you speak of?

[sun~]

I entirely agree with your points. But probably because I also come from a culture which pays fairly and tipping is not required to supplement wages or salary. However, in the U.S., service workers are - I understand - paid well below minimum, therefore tipping is morally compulsory:( I just wish they would add it into the fare and have done with it.

 

Sadly this is not true startwin. In Ontario the minimum wage is $10.25 an hour, restaurant servers and bartenders get $8.90 an hour. Hardly fairly paid. Servers and bartenders in Canada rely on tips to form the majority of their wages.

 

The fact is some folks are just cheap and argue about "adjusting or removing" HSC or gratuities. They just don't want to pay. Next cruise, just ask a steward or a waiter about those cheapos.

 

The utter garbage about adding it to the cost of the cruise is for the truly uninformed. As soon as the added cost is added to the revenue stream it is taxed. So the $80 pp per week becomes $200 pp per week. This has been explained repeatedly on these boards. Just like removing the tips and paying in cash. It gets put in a pool and divided.

[BruceMuzz]

Is this a Holland America Line ship you speak of?

 

No. But HAL ships are having the same problems we have.

[erewhon]

No. But HAL ships are having the same problems we have.

 

Thank you for your reply.

[Aussiepair]

My ship just spent two months cruising Australia / New Zealand. We carried a very high number of Australian pax who were very upset about paying a Service Charge, and complained bitterly about it. The vast majority of Aussies removed the service charges and tipped nothing. My crew were very upset about losing so much of their salary. Many resigned and will not be coming back.

 

We frequently went ashore in Australia for lunch and dinner. In most of the restaurants we visited, the service was abysmal - and the restaurant added a Service Charge to our bill. In one Fremantle Restaurant the service charge was 25% of the bill!! When we asked the restaurant managers about this "service charge", they informed us that it was not negotiable, and was used to pay the salaries of the service staff.

 

Seems to be a double standard in Australia.

 

 

I can assure you that is the exception not the rule in Australia. I have not been charged a service fee at a restaurant in Australia and the only time I have heard of it over here is on public holidays where the staff have to be paid penalty rates, sometimes up to three times the normal hourly rate. My 20 year old nephew waits on tables at a mid price restaurant and receives $20 per hour for doing it, I know of others that receive more and some that receive a little less. The wages for waiters and bar staff in Australia is equitable with other workers of a similar skill level, that is why tipping is only done over here for exceptional service.

 

To say that a service charge is added to pay staff wages in an Australian restaurant is ridiculous, wages over here are regulated by law and even if the restaurant never sold one meal for the night the staff would still get the same pay.

 

The non paying of the HSC on cruise ships by Australians is easily fixed, all they have to do is include it in the fare, it could not be more simpler. It is not just Australians that don't pay the HSC either, on a recent HAL Baltic cruise there were American and Dutch cruisers boasting that they would not be paying any HSC.

 

One other reason some Australians are hesitant to pay the HSC is because on average we pay much more for the same cruise than our American friends. As an example a 14 day cruise in an oceanview cabin on the Maasdam departing 6th Dec is available to Americans for $749 while the same cabin would cost Australians $1945. That is not a misprint, more than two and a half times the price for the same cabin.

 

As to an $80 increase in fare turning into $200 after tax I think that needs some explaining. I am not aware of why money paid as a fare would be taxed at over 200% wile money paid as a HSC would not be taxed.

 

For the record as stated earlier I always pay the HSC and usually give a little more to staff directly.

 

As I also said earlier, it is not the cruisers responsibility to make sure the staff receive a fair wage, it is the cruise lines.

[BruceMuzz]

I can assure you that is the exception not the rule in Australia. I have not been charged a service fee at a restaurant in Australia and the only time I have heard of it over here is on public holidays where the staff have to be paid penalty rates, sometimes up to three times the normal hourly rate. My 20 year old nephew waits on tables at a mid price restaurant and receives $20 per hour for doing it, I know of others that receive more and some that receive a little less. The wages for waiters and bar staff in Australia is equitable with other workers of a similar skill level, that is why tipping is only done over here for exceptional service.

 

To say that a service charge is added to pay staff wages in an Australian restaurant is ridiculous, wages over here are regulated by law and even if the restaurant never sold one meal for the night the staff would still get the same pay.

 

The non paying of the HSC on cruise ships by Australians is easily fixed, all they have to do is include it in the fare, it could not be more simpler. It is not just Australians that don't pay the HSC either, on a recent HAL Baltic cruise there were American and Dutch cruisers boasting that they would not be paying any HSC.

 

One other reason some Australians are hesitant to pay the HSC is because on average we pay much more for the same cruise than our American friends. As an example a 14 day cruise in an oceanview cabin on the Maasdam departing 6th Dec is available to Americans for $749 while the same cabin would cost Australians $1945. That is not a misprint, more than two and a half times the price for the same cabin.

 

As to an $80 increase in fare turning into $200 after tax I think that needs some explaining. I am not aware of why money paid as a fare would be taxed at over 200% wile money paid as a HSC would not be taxed.

 

For the record as stated earlier I always pay the HSC and usually give a little more to staff directly.

 

As I also said earlier, it is not the cruisers responsibility to make sure the staff receive a fair wage, it is the cruise lines.

 

My staff and I encountered this "exceptional" service charge in restaurants in Brisbane, Cairns, Darwin, Broome, Exmouth, Fremantle, Perth, Adelaide, and Melbourne. We did not encounter it in Sydney or Hamilton Island

Of course in Hamilton Island the local officials informed us that our Asian and Caribbean Crewmembers were not welcome to go ashore. They did not want a bunch of "brown and black skinned people" wandering around the island.

 

This service charge seems to be a rather widespread Australian policy for an "exception".

In every case, it was explained that this non-negotiable service charge was being used to pay a proper wage to the service staff.

We never encountered anything like this in New Zealand - only Australia.

 

So is it the responsibility of my un-tipped crew to ensure that the Australian Restaurant Staff receive a fair wage - or is it the responsibility of the Australian Government?

Edited November 26, 2013 by BruceMuzz

[kazu]

My staff and I encountered this "exceptional" service charge in restaurants in Brisbane, Cairns, Darwin, Broome, Exmouth, Fremantle, Perth, Adelaide, and Melbourne. We did not encounter it in Sydney or Hamilton Island

Of course in Hamilton Island the local officials informed us that our Asian and Caribbean Crewmembers were not welcome to go ashore. They did not want a bunch of "brown and black skinned people" wandering around the island.

 

This service charge seems to be a rather widespread Australian policy for an "exception".

In every case, it was explained that this non-negotiable service charge was being used to pay a proper wage to the service staff.

We never encountered anything like this in New Zealand - only Australia.

 

So is it the responsibility of my un-tipped crew to ensure that the Australian Restaurant Staff receive a fair wage - or is it the responsibility of the Australian Government?

 

WOW!!! Awful!!! Ports with this type of attitude should be dropped from an itinerary. There is no place today for this type of discrimination.

[sapper1]

WOW!!! Awful!!! Ports with this type of attitude should be dropped from an itinerary. There is no place today for this type of discrimination.

 

I could not agree more. I am sure that if an announcement to that effect had been made known to the passengers, the majority of them would have boycotted that port. I hope the cruise line in question cancels their stops there.

[sail7seas]

IMO, the ship should have left the port and explained to guests why they would not be making a port call there.

 

[jtl513]

IMO, the ship should have left the port and explained to guests why they would not be making a port call there.

 

I totally agree!! :eek: But maybe it was too late to do that, as some excursions had already left, etc. Edited November 26, 2013 by jtl513

[Monsoonalblue]

IMO, the ship should have left the port and explained to guests why they would not be making a port call there.

 

 

I agree with you if the reason stated by the op is factual. Something tells me that those crew members were refused entry to the island for reasons other than the colour of their skin or country of origin. Australia, like many countries is very multi-cultural and discrimination of this kind would be frowned upon and most likely be reported in the media. JMHO :)

[sail7seas]

I agree with you if the reason stated by the op is factual. Something tells me that those crew members were refused entry to the island for reasons other than the colour of their skin or country of origin. Australia, like many countries is very multi-cultural and discrimination of this kind would be frowned upon and most likely be reported in the media. JMHO :)

 

 

Yes, of course.

 

It is understood verification certainly would be expected.