Frequent Flyer Mile/Hotel Points

[frugaltravel]

Ah, so you think I'm lying and artificially inflating the price. Well, why didn't you just have the balls to say you thought I was a liar in the first place? Quite obviously you don't know me, so you've got no evidence to support that idea, but feel free to rant on the internet about my lies nonetheless, LOL.

 

No need to call you a liar. If you take that tack, then you called yourself a liar:

 

In other words, it might not be actually worth 8 cents, for instance (it isn't), but it is worth more when I use it that way than if I used it for a cheaper ticket.

(bolding mine for clarity and emphasis)

 

I rest my case.

Edited November 9, 2013 by frugaltravel

[GeezerCouple]

 

...True if you (generic) acquired the miles from flying. But if you acquired the miles from credit card spend, most likely you would have been better off using a flat 2% cashback card and buying the ticket for cash (and thus also earning miles for the flight). 45K miles generally (key word) requires $45K of credit card spend x 2% = $900 cashback. At least two credit cards offer true 2% cash back. If the miles were earned by flying, then you are totally correct...

 

 

Um, which points/miles specifically were those you got from flying, and which points/miles specifically were those you got from using your card?

 

Aren't the points/miles fungible once you've got them, like Euros or dollars, etc.?

 

What matters is how one SPENDS them, not how one got them, no?

 

(Yet a different question is what type of rewards card to use, which usually depends upon a variety of factors. Or even *which* airline to fly when paying with money, especially if one is near a special status threshold, etc.)

 

GeezerCouple

[frugaltravel]

Aren't the points/miles fungible once you've got them, like Euros or dollars, etc.?

 

What matters is how one SPENDS them, not how one got them, no?

 

No.

 

That is a common misperception. People who use affinity credit cards (i.e. an airline's credit card) to obtain miles, which is what I was referring to, are forgoing at least 2% cash by obtaining miles vs. cash. Think of the above example of using 35K miles for a $700 ticket. If those 35K miles were all from an airline affinity card and that person spent $35K to obtain those miles, it cost $700 to get those miles since that same person could have had $700 cash in pocket for the exact same amount of credit card spend if they used something like the Fidelity 2% cash back card (true cash back, not deposited into a retirement account).

 

So in this example, the buyer would have almost broken even by using an airline credit card. I say "almost" because they don't earn miles on the award ticket, but they would have earned miles on the $700 ticket.

 

Unfortunately many people with airline credit cards accrue miles at 1 mile per dollar charged, pay an annual fee, and then use the miles for a ticket that yields less than 2 cents per mile. Unfortunately they don't realize the error of their ways. They could have purchased the ticket using the cash from the cash back card, still had money in their pocket, earned miles on the ticket and not have been restricted by limited award availability of most airlines.

Edited November 9, 2013 by frugaltravel

[ducklite]

No.

 

That is a common misperception. People who use affinity credit cards (i.e. an airline's credit card) to obtain miles, which is what I was referring to, are forgoing at least 2% cash by obtaining miles vs. cash. Think of the above example of using 35K miles for a $700 ticket. If those 35K miles were all from an airline affinity card and that person spent $35K to obtain those miles, it cost $700 to get those miles since that same person could have had $700 cash in pocket for the exact same amount of credit card spend if they used something like the Fidelity 2% cash back card (true cash back, not deposited into a retirement account).

 

So in this example, the buyer would have almost broken even by using an airline credit card. I say "almost" because they don't earn miles on the award ticket, but they would have earned miles on the $700 ticket.

 

Unfortunately many people with airline credit cards accrue miles at 1 mile per dollar charged, pay an annual fee, and then use the miles for a ticket that yields less than 2 cents per mile. Unfortunately they don't realize the error of their ways. They could have purchased the ticket using the cash from the cash back card, still had money in their pocket, earned miles on the ticket and not have been restricted by limited award availability of most airlines.

 

It depends in the yearly spend on tickets. Mine runs over $10K annually, I get double miles on ticket purchases, an annual $99 companion ticket voucher, and 5K off reward tickets, plus a handful of other perks.

 

This year I took my son with me to see my family for a few days. Paid $350 for my ticket and $99 for his. Call it $450 for two tickets for a savings of $250. Earned enough miles for a r/t domestic coach ticket and the ability to "pay" 5K less miles when redeeming award tickets.

 

Just in the companion ticket I'm ahead over a cash back card.

 

 

 

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[frugaltravel]

It depends in the yearly spend on tickets. Mine runs over $10K annually, I get double miles on ticket purchases, an annual $99 companion ticket voucher, and 5K off reward tickets, plus a handful of other perks.

 

This year I took my son with me to see my family for a few days. Paid $350 for my ticket and $99 for his. Call it $450 for two tickets for a savings of $250. Earned enough miles for a r/t domestic coach ticket and the ability to "pay" 5K less miles when redeeming award tickets.

 

Just in the companion ticket I'm ahead over a cash back card.

 

You and I both know that we are not the "typical" credit card holder. In fact, I would venture to say that pretty much any regular on the Cruise Air forum can do much better with their credit cards than my example.

 

Secondly, if someone spends a lot on airline tickets, they can get 3x points with at least one card. Is that better for some people? Sure. Not as good for others? Sure.

 

I loved the recent promos with USAirways - a combination of a 100% share miles bonus coupled with a 50% refund of miles used (targeted) basically meant you could have gotten a round trip coach ticket to Europe for about $300 including taxes and the share mile transfer fee and basically gotten all your miles back (net, assuming the two accounts are from family/close friends).

Edited November 10, 2013 by frugaltravel

[calliopecruiser]

No need to call you a liar. If you take that tack, then you called yourself a liar:

 

 

(bolding mine for clarity and emphasis)

 

I rest my case.

 

Yup, it's not actually worth 8 cents because you can't sell them on the open market for 8 cents - but it might be worth 8 cents worth of something else in trade. Or more, or less, depending on what kind of trade you can make.

[crazyme5kids]

You know, lots of people spend lots of time analyzing comparative values of points, etc., but at the end of the day, the best use of them is for something that you want.

 

For instance, last year, our last 2 nights in Rome before our cruise were spent at a Holiday Inn Express that cost me 25,000 points/night. Now, by anybody's standards, that was a pretty mediocre use of points, as that hotel could probably be had for 100 euros/night. But, as I already have said, we wanted to do all free nights, and this choice got me exactly what I wanted: a clean room with a free breakfast that my mom could actually eat (she's allergic to wheat, so a croissant and jam just doesn't cut it), a comfortable 10-minute walk to a train station where we caught a direct train to Civitavecchia for our cruise. It may not have been good value for my points, but it was good value to me, and ultimately that's what's important.

 

You have to remember, for hotel points especially, they can loose their value thru devaluations/category adjustments, so hanging on to them for too long isn't that good an idea.

Re: domestic flights on points: certainly from where I live, if you're talking mile value-wise, this can be a very good use of miles, as we have rather expensive domestic flights (I consider anything under $400 to be borderline miraculous), and Air Canada has short-haul redemptions for 15,000 miles.

 

You are right. Two years ago we had to throw together a trip to Arizona on fairly short notice to see my son graduate from AIT (army). We decided to spend a few nights before seeing him at the Grand Canyon and one night in Vegas. We stayed in Tuscon for three nights, but we also wanted to it to be somewhat of a budget trip. We used points for the hotels in Vegas and Tuscon, and paid for our stay at the Grand Canyon. We also used FF miles for two round trips, and a one way ticket for my son to come home for his leave. We rented a car I think we used points for that, but am not positive.

 

Going into it, I knew using the hotel points wasn't the smartest, but I felt that it balanced out the cost of staying at the Grand Canyon.

 

Those FF points were the best use of points ever! :D

[kenish]

Not necessarily. I just booked a r/t ticket MCO to LAX for 45k miles, first on all legs. The best I could do in economy was 35K miles, and the ticket would have run me $700 paying cash. It was a no brainer to book it as a first class r/t using miles.

 

Thus the words in my post, "Very roughly". There are a zillon specific counter-examples like yours...good you found award availability in F for only 10k more miles.

[kenish]

**double post**, sorry!

Edited November 10, 2013 by kenish

[ducklite]

I'm saving the bulk of my FF miles for getting to and from Australia and NZ for a cruise. We'll fly business or first, and that's a trip we are willing to use as many miles as needed.

 

We drove cross country this summer, and covered all hotels with points from Hilton and Marriott. Some places we just grabbed a Fairfield or Hampton for a place to sleep and shower along the way, but we stayed at a JW Marriott in San Francisco, the Marriott Resort in Napa, and the Hilton Grand Vacations in Vegas. Even after that and a donation to Make A Wish, I still have enough to do that trip again, thanks to business travel and my Hilton branded AmEx. We'll use a good chunk of them in Paris in 2015.

 

 

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[crazyme5kids]

I'm saving the bulk of my FF miles for getting to and from Australia and NZ for a cruise. We'll fly business or first, and that's a trip we are willing to use as many miles as needed.

 

We drove cross country this summer, and covered all hotels with points from Hilton and Marriott. Some places we just grabbed a Fairfield or Hampton for a place to sleep and shower along the way, but we stayed at a JW Marriott in San Francisco, the Marriott Resort in Napa, and the Hilton Grand Vacations in Vegas. Even after that and a donation to Make A Wish, I still have enough to do that trip again, thanks to business travel and my Hilton branded AmEx. We'll use a good chunk of them in Paris in 2015.

 

 

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That's fantastic you are able to maximize your points into mainly two chains! I wish my husband would be able to do that.

 

I haven't stayed in a Fairfield or Hampton Inn in probably at least ten or more years. The last time I stayed in one, but I at this point I don't remember which one it was, it was so disgustingly dirty. In fact, it was so bad even my kids mentioned it:eek:. Had it not been so late when we arrived, I would have gone to a different hotel. Thank goodness it was only one night, but at the time it changed my view about certain categories of hotel chains.

 

That being said, for years I wouldn't stay at Holiday Inns, but one trip had too due to it being the only option. I was pleasantly surprised by the quality, and now don't hesitate to stay at Holiday Inns, or Holiday Inn Express. Naturally, I do try and look online and read some reviews of any place I am going to stay at.

[ducklite]

That's fantastic you are able to maximize your points into mainly two chains! I wish my husband would be able to do that.

 

I haven't stayed in a Fairfield or Hampton Inn in probably at least ten or more years. The last time I stayed in one, but I at this point I don't remember which one it was, it was so disgustingly dirty. In fact, it was so bad even my kids mentioned it:eek:. Had it not been so late when we arrived, I would have gone to a different hotel. Thank goodness it was only one night, but at the time it changed my view about certain categories of hotel chains.

 

That being said, for years I wouldn't stay at Holiday Inns, but one trip had too due to it being the only option. I was pleasantly surprised by the quality, and now don't hesitate to stay at Holiday Inns, or Holiday Inn Express. Naturally, I do try and look online and read some reviews of any place I am going to stay at.

 

It can be hit or miss with those hotels, although I've stayed in a few Hamptons as nice as any Hilton Garden Inn minus the bar and full service restaurant. They seem to be stepping up their game in trying to lure in the business traveler while Fairfield seems content to remain a budget type hotel. The disparity can be huge between hotels in the same market. For example the Towne Place Suites near the VA in Albany, NY is great, while the one near the SUNY campus just a few miles away is terrible in both service and repair/housekeeping.

 

I had written off Holiday Inn a couple decades ago, they were literally right there with Motel 6 in my book. Apparently there was a mandate about five years ago that all properties needed to meet a new set of criteria and undergo renovations. Those that couldn't or wouldn't were sold off or dropped as franchisees. I had to attend a conference at the in in Portland, ME and was dreading it. I was completely pleasantly surprised at the property and level if service when I arrived. My room was terrific with a super comfortable bed, quiet climate control, super clean and well equipped with a few extras that made it really great. I'd stay there again without hesitation if I were in the area.

 

 

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[ducklite]

By the way, I'll probably stay at Crowne Plaza and Holiday Inns in my next few trips because I am shy a few thousand points for a free IC night in Tahiti. I've booked the room in case I don't get there, but hoping to cover one of the three nights on points. Free is for me!

 

 

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[Gloria Mundi]

It can be hit or miss with those hotels, although I've stayed in a few Hamptons as nice as any Hilton Garden Inn minus the bar and full service restaurant. They seem to be stepping up their game in trying to lure in the business traveler while Fairfield seems content to remain a budget type hotel. The disparity can be huge between hotels in the same market.

 

TripAdvisor is your friend here. If you read enough reviews with details you can get a pretty good idea of what you're in for. I have over 100 reviews on TA (under a different name) and my comments are very specific about cleanliness, quiet, the pool size, the fitness center, what's nearby, etc.

 

I continually weigh the cashback vs.points decision on credit cards. We travel enough to accumulate points, but not a lot of them, since I don't travel on business as often as I used to and DH is retired. If we waited till we'd accumulated enough points via actual stays and flights, we'd rarely be able to redeem the points. The credit cards make it easier to get points faster and thus make the ones we get through actual travel useful earlier. As the hotels and airlines continue to devalue their programs, you don't want to sit on miles/points for too long.

 

As others have mentioned, it's a complicated equation and it's different for everyone.

[ducklite]

TripAdvisor is your friend here. If you read enough reviews with details you can get a pretty good idea of what you're in for. I have over 100 reviews on TA (under a different name) and my comments are very specific about cleanliness, quiet, the pool size, the fitness center, what's nearby, etc.

 

I continually weigh the cashback vs.points decision on credit cards. We travel enough to accumulate points, but not a lot of them, since I don't travel on business as often as I used to and DH is retired. If we waited till we'd accumulated enough points via actual stays and flights, we'd rarely be able to redeem the points. The credit cards make it easier to get points faster and thus make the ones we get through actual travel useful earlier. As the hotels and airlines continue to devalue their programs, you don't want to sit on miles/points for too long.

 

As others have mentioned, it's a complicated equation and it's different for everyone.

 

I use TA both as a reference to check out a place as well a to post reviews. I have over 300 also under a different name.

 

I wish I didn't travel as much, although I don't quite like I used to, and have a company trying to recruit me that would be more travel to California when I was traveling, which puts a smile on my face. :). The perks do pay off when taking leisure trips though. My husband has gotten quite spoiled.

 

 

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[calliopecruiser]

I continually weigh the cashback vs.points decision on credit cards......

As others have mentioned, it's a complicated equation and it's different for everyone.

 

I also re-evaluate my credit card choices every couple of years, just like I re-evaluate my bank account choices every couple of year, to make sure that what was working for me in the past is still my best option. It's easy to get lulled into doing what you've always done, not realizing that either you or the program has changed.

[FlyerTalker]

By the way, I'll probably stay at Crowne Plaza and Holiday Inns in my next few trips because I am shy a few thousand points for a free IC night in Tahiti.

Can anyone say "mattress run"??

 

In late 2012, Marriott was running a pair of promos that worked quite well for me. Six stays in a 12 week period would get gold status for the following year. A concurrent promo was for two stays that would get you a free night, redeemable for the next 6 months. Had three Marriott stays already planned, then found a Courtyard near my home that had a $55/night weekend rate. Checked in on Friday afternoon, went to the room and scarfed up the coffee packets (I always seem to want more when actually traveling, so extras are always in my suitcase) and then came down and dropped the key and folio in the express checkout bin. Did it the same for the next two weekends and ended up WAY ahead on the deal with both status and free nights overseas (where PL/HW didn't have any offerings).

 

You might want to look for a nearby IC hotel that has some weekend promos. Could be worth it. (Or even a short weekend drive for a "getaway")

[ducklite]

Can anyone say "mattress run"??

 

In late 2012, Marriott was running a pair of promos that worked quite well for me. Six stays in a 12 week period would get gold status for the following year. A concurrent promo was for two stays that would get you a free night, redeemable for the next 6 months. Had three Marriott stays already planned, then found a Courtyard near my home that had a $55/night weekend rate. Checked in on Friday afternoon, went to the room and scarfed up the coffee packets (I always seem to want more when actually traveling, so extras are always in my suitcase) and then came down and dropped the key and folio in the express checkout bin. Did it the same for the next two weekends and ended up WAY ahead on the deal with both status and free nights overseas (where PL/HW didn't have any offerings).

 

You might want to look for a nearby IC hotel that has some weekend promos. Could be worth it. (Or even a short weekend drive for a "getaway")

 

I'll get them with business travel in the next couple of months. I like being home in the weekends. :)

 

 

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[crazyme5kids]

By the way, I'll probably stay at Crowne Plaza and Holiday Inns in my next few trips because I am shy a few thousand points for a free IC night in Tahiti. I've booked the room in case I don't get there, but hoping to cover one of the three nights on points. Free is for me!

 

 

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We have the most points in IC, followed by Marriott, which I am happy to say my husband is starting to stay at more of them again. For a long time there weren't any Marriotts in a lot of the places he traveled, much to my dismay. The least amount are in Starwood points. What kills me is when he stays at boutique hotels that don't offer any member points.

 

Between all the different chains though we do have a nice amount of points just waiting to be used.

Edited November 11, 2013 by crazyme5kids

[frugaltravel]

I'll get them with business travel in the next couple of months. I like being home in the weekends. :)

 

Guess you didn't understand FT'ers post. You could stay home in (sic) the weekends, depending of course on the rate and the value received.

 

Checked in on Friday afternoon, went to the room and scarfed up the coffee packets...then came down and dropped the key and folio in the express checkout bin. Did it the same for the next two weekends and ended up WAY ahead on the deal with both status and free nights overseas (where PL/HW didn't have any offerings).

 

He probably spent 1/2 hour of his time going from his home to the hotel, getting his coffee packets, then driving home :D

Edited November 11, 2013 by frugaltravel

[kenish]

I wish I didn't travel as much, although I don't quite like I used to, and have a company trying to recruit me that would be more travel to California when I was traveling, which puts a smile on my face. :).

 

You're welcome to visit our fair state anytime! (Sacramento needs the money) :)

Edited November 11, 2013 by kenish

[ducklite]

Guess you didn't understand FT'ers post. You could stay home in (sic) the weekends, depending of course on the rate and the value received.

 

 

 

He probably spent 1/2 hour of his time going from his home to the hotel, getting his coffee packets, then driving home :D

 

Again, why would I spend my money doing this when I will earn the points through business travel soon enough? I understood the post just fine, it made no sense given the scenario I had described. I have enough points at my regular brands for a month of stays, I need a few thousand for one night in one hotel brand that I don't usually stay at.

 

By the way, I'm sorry that an obvious typo was so offensive to you. :rolleyes:

 

 

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[snow bunny]

We used DH'S FF points to fly our SIL from Calgary to Tampa for our NYE cruise. I then bought enough points to get DD's flight. Then we used points and some cash to buy 6 flights from MSP to Tampa for the rest of our crew. So eight flights cost me a grand total of $1300.00 for flights during high season. Then we used our hotel points for one of the two rooms we needed for our overnight stay in MSP. The cost of flights from here in Manitoba to TPA would have been over double the price per person so an eight hour drive saved me $650 pp. I can live with the price and travel time as I am the one paying for the flights, cruise, excursions and gratuities!!

 

snow bunny

[slidergirl]

Again, why would I spend my money doing this when I will earn the points through business travel soon enough? I understood the post just fine, it made no sense given the scenario I had described. I have enough points at my regular brands for a month of stays, I need a few thousand for one night in one hotel brand that I don't usually stay at.

 

By the way, I'm sorry that an obvious typo was so offensive to you. :rolleyes:

 

 

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Ducklite: I think FlyerTalker was describing a specific scenario where he was going to be short some points/stays to get to the next level. Doing a "mattress" run is a historic way of getting that done. He was able to "check in" to a nearby hotel, grab the amenities, and "check out", snagging his stay. He never had to actually stay in the hotel. So, in this case, it was another thing on his "honey-do" list of things to do on the weekend ;) It was just a suggestion from him for people who are just getting into the FF/FG game.

I used up almost all my FG points in May - I still have random Hyatt points for 1 night (hard to use in Italy). I have a few Hilton points, so I'll probably put some of my spending on my Hilton CC to get those points up for a night somewhere. My *wood points are slowly re-accruing, too. I have my monthly bills auto paid on my Delta AMEX to get points. The rest of my spending goes on my regular AMEX plat. Maybe in 2 years I'll be able to do another "free" week in Europe :D