Risky Question: Do you feel that Silversea is financially stable?

[Travelcat2]

Before I get flamed -- I have a positive reason for asking this question. Firstly, we love sailing on Silversea (almost as much as Regent -- a cruise line we have sailed on for 10 years). We recommend Silversea to our friends and people we meet on cruises that are looking for good luxury cruise lines.

 

The response to our recommendation is often that they doubt the financial stability of Silversea. They also mention the poor sanitation rating on the Shadow but I find that easy to dispel. Another frequent comment is the fairly frequent changes in management and policies. I have to admit that Silversea management does not appear cohesive so there is no way to really address this with people that are interested in Silversea.

 

Any comments are welcome:)

[Stumblefoot]

...Another frequent comment is the fairly frequent changes in management and policies. I have to admit that Silversea management does not appear cohesive so there is no way to really address this with people that are interested in Silversea.

I don't have any data to answer your financial stability question one way or the other. But, I do share the same concerns about the frequent changes in senior management.

 

It's not the personnel change that bothers me, but rather that the turnover whereby leaders leave the company. This indicates a broader problem (dysfunction?) with the executive team.

 

Regardless, it hasn't stopped me from booking voyages on Silversea far into the future as you can see from my signature. This is because my family and I enjoy the product and service whilst on board.

[newlondon]

Jacquie, I don't know this regarding SS; but, in industry, family companies frequently have significant management turnover once the incumbents realize they will never be number one.

[Travelcat2]

Thanks much for both responses. I suppose that even for us, Silversea is #2 (but is close to #1 if that counts:-)

[Village.ins]

i think stumblfoot's comment is really important. I own a small business and you simply do not want turn over. SS seems unable to keep top management in USA, what is more, they dont seem to care.

 

 

The family does appear to have the money to buy and to refurbish ships. However, the ships are coming form used car lots, not new and not really first class. This is sad and lets the brand down.

[Nigella]

Interesting about the Shadow's issues last summer putting people off SS.

I can understand why it would, and especially in the US because it drew a huge amount of publicity there at the time. Mud sticks.

But here, I don't know anyone outside of CC who is aware of the issues because there was very little publicity, possibly because we're all filthy heathens in "Europe" :p

 

I think that newlondon's point is the crux of it. Family company, things are done differently. I would also like to tentatively state that family run in some parts of the world is not done the same way as in other parts of the world. That said, I'd appreciate the US contingent not turning my post into a broad criticism of how things are done here. It's different, not necessarily worse though. :cool:

[Mark_K]

Jacquie, I don't know this regarding SS; but, in industry, family companies frequently have significant management turnover once the incumbents realize they will never be number one.

One would think that a reasonably sharp executive would have understood that before taking the position.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[Mr Luxury]

 

The family does appear to have the money to buy and to refurbish ships. class.

 

The family has been able to borrow the money to finance the business.;)

[newlondon]

Mark K, A lot of people delude themselves into thinking that it will be different this time. Not

[argyllsock]

An interesting discussion!

 

Family businesses can be successful at retaining people. SAS Institute in Cary NC is a family owned business with the lowest (by far) turnover in the software industry. They do it by offering a lot of benefits that are 'non career climbing' benefits - outstanding family benefits, work environment, etc. The organization (and family) has to decide what it wants in people, and what it doesn't want to represent, decide what type of person it wants to attract, and then structure it accordingly. SAS has done very well by attracting the right people for its ownership structure, and building a work environment and renumeration package that works.

 

Another challenge for anyone working in the US - you are 6 time zones from the Silversea headquarters. That can be a frustrating experience, since it's easy to get left out from the decision making experience.

 

To the financial viability point, I suspect that the family will sell the fleet and name to another cruise operator at some point. I believe they've done this before, and I suspect they will again.

[newlondon]

Terrific post Argyll. The key words are 'non career climbing'. If an executive is willing to sublimate their competitive personality they can succeed in the environment you describe, if, however, they have been hired because of their forward looking and charging ability they will still be disappointed.

All that being said, I am not worried about SS or what it may become.

[bogey]

Some very interesting and thoughtful comments in this thread. Some random thoughts:

 

If the fact that the Shadow failed a sanitation inspection is evidence that the cruise line is in trouble, then we should worry about Regent. After all, the Navigator almost simultaneously failed an inspection with a lower score, and the Navigator's re-inspection score was lower than the Shadow's. So, while the Shadow inspection was very disappointing, I'm not sure that a bad inspection supports a conclusion of bigger problems.

 

If a banker is willing loan millions of dollars to finance fleet refurbishment efforts, that banker (who certainly will take a hard look at the books) isn't worried about the financial stability of the line.

 

If the line were in financial trouble, I doubt that they'd have been able to buy a second expedition ship, which would have involved, I'm sure, another big loan.

 

So, while I have no crystal ball into the financial condition of the company, it seems to me that the weight of the evidence would support a conclusion that there is no reason for alarm.

 

Of course, my opinions are about as reliable as a weather forecast. Therefore the company will probably declare bankruptcy tomorrow.

[Older Party]

Some very interesting and thoughtful comments in this thread. Some random thoughts:

 

If the fact that the Shadow failed a sanitation inspection is evidence that the cruise line is in trouble, then we should worry about Regent. After all, the Navigator almost simultaneously failed an inspection with a lower score, and the Navigator's re-inspection score was lower than the Shadow's. So, while the Shadow inspection was very disappointing, I'm not sure that a bad inspection supports a conclusion of bigger problems.

 

If a banker is willing loan millions of dollars to finance fleet refurbishment efforts, that banker (who certainly will take a hard look at the books) isn't worried about the financial stability of the line.

 

If the line were in financial trouble, I doubt that they'd have been able to buy a second expedition ship, which would have involved, I'm sure, another big loan.

 

So, while I have no crystal ball into the financial condition of the company, it seems to me that the weight of the evidence would support a conclusion that there is no reason for alarm.

 

Of course, my opinions are about as reliable as a weather forecast. Therefore the company will probably declare bankruptcy tomorrow.

 

This is the BEST post I've ever read! I read the Regent, Seabourn, RCCL, Princess, Silversea, and HAL boards and post occasionally but truly, this one was RIGHT up my alley as I so relate. This is why I never gamble in casinos.

[drron29]

However I believe the second Expedition ship was not bought but leased for 5 years.So no extra big bank loan.

[Travelcat2]

Very interesting responses. As I mentioned in my post, sanitation is easy to dispel (for both Silversea and Regent) -- the $$$ part and turnover is not as easy to dispel. Do we know how difficult it is to get loans in Italy/Monaco? Many people in the U.S. got home loans very easily (and also, sadly, lost their homes just as easily). IMO, millions of dollars to certain banks in the world is not a big deal.

 

It feels to me (as someone who really likes Silversea) that the "family" does not care enough about their company. There are complaints about lack of response from headquarters........ there was a very long thread a couple of years ago from passengers regarding the automatic "charity" charge that we must opt out of (instead of opting "in" which is how most things work in the world). It is still there.

 

We will keep watching the boards and news about Silversea and will continue sailing with them (when and if we find the right itinerary -- that is not more expensive than Regent -- a bit difficult to do at the moment). However, it may not be a good idea to recommend Silversea to other cruisers...... at least not at the moment.

 

Thank you for the thoughtful responses.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Travelcat2

[argyllsock]

TravelCat2:

 

You mentioned a charity charge. First time I've heard about this!

 

Could you provide some background on this? What organization does it go to, how much, etc.

 

I'm not a big fan of forced giving.

[57 varieties]

Argyllsock you are not alone. A letter now appears a few days into your cruise and if you do not want to give $x per day you sign it and hand it in to Reception. It used to be a big deal to opt out but isn't any more.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[57 varieties]

P.S. It is a charity favoured by the Italian owners of SS - children in Italy I think.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[WesW]

Pls see below, Silversea's website page on the Maruzza Foundation. You can also let your Butler know you opt out of the $1 day charged to your on board account. And you can go to Guest Services and let them know in person.

 

http://www.silversea.com/why-silversea/social-environmental-responsibility/maruzza/

 

The Maruzza Foundation

 

The Maruzza Lefebvre D’Ovidio Foundation is an independent, family run charity, established by Antonio and Eugenia Lefebvre D’Ovidio following the loss of Maruzza, their eldest daughter, in 1989.

 

Antonio and Eugenia passionately took up the vocation to aid people suffering the same fate as their daughter. Her vision became their deepest desire — to provide assistance and care for incurable patients, with consideration and respect for their moral principles, dignity and quality of life — bringing light to Maruzza’s dream.

 

Silversea is proud to support the dedicated efforts of this non-profit organisation and to honour the memory of Maruzza, the beloved sister of Silversea’s Deputy Chairman, Manfredi Lefebvre D’Ovidio.

From Cure to Care: A Mission of Love

 

Under the leadership of Elvira Silvia Lefebvre D’Ovidio, Maruzza’s sister, the Foundation works together with local government organisations assembling specialised networks to promote excellence and equity in the provision of palliative care and support for persons affected by life-threatening or life-limiting conditions and their families, regardless of age, cultural, social and economic background.

 

Today, a major part of its energy and resources is dedicated to the diffusion of palliative care for children, babies and adolescents affected by incurable illness. For these young patients in particular, it is essential that they spend their days in familiar surroundings where all their physical, emotional, social and spiritual needs can be properly addressed, able to live their lives free from unnecessary pain and suffering.

One For Life

 

Silversea and the Maruzza Foundation have established “One For Life”, a fundraising project that promotes awareness of this important cause and allows Silversea guests to become actively involved in the Maruzza Foundation’s activities. Donations fund research and educational programmes such as the “Children Project” – an initiative that provides seriously ill children and their families a full scope of quality palliative and hospice care services that would otherwise be unavailable.

 

For more information or to make a private donation, please visit http://www.maruzza.org or email foundation@silversea.com

 

 

Silvia Lefebvre D'Ovidio

 

 

“On behalf of the Maruzza Foundation and the entire Lefebvre D’Ovidio family, I wish to express my most sincere gratitude for the opportunity to share with you Maruzza’s enthusiasm for solidarity. Her vision and her voice inspired my family to fulfil her dream. We trust that with the help and support of those who believe and participate in our mission, we can improve the lives of many seriously ill individuals and their families.”

 

– Silvia Lefebvre D’Ovidio

Chairman, Maruzza Lefebvre D’Ovidio Foundation

[tripperva]

Some folks donate very large sums to charity every year, but THEY decide whom they wish to support.

[Travelcat2]

TravelCat2:

 

You mentioned a charity charge. First time I've heard about this!

 

Could you provide some background on this? What organization does it go to, how much, etc.

 

I'm not a big fan of forced giving.

 

Like yourself, too many people do not know or pay attention to this. I am not against giving to charity -- perhaps even this charity but I do not like anyone charging me first and then having to ask to opt out. There was a very long thread on this subject a year or two ago. Few, if any, posters were in favor of the way Silversea was handling this. It wasn't about the amount of money or the charity, it was just seemed a bit slimey somehow. Whether telling your butler or the front desk that you want to opt out or signing and handing the paper to someone...... it did not make me feel comfortable.

 

Again, this issue isn't going to keep me away from Silversea but does show, at least on this subject, lack of concern by the parent company of what their customers think.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Like yourself, too many people do not know or pay attention to this. I am not against giving to charity -- perhaps even this charity but I do not like anyone charging me first and then having to ask to opt out. There was a very long thread on this subject a year or two ago. Few, if any, posters were in favor of the way Silversea was handling this. It wasn't about the amount of money or the charity, it was just seemed a bit slimey somehow. Whether telling your butler or the front desk that you want to opt out or signing and handing the paper to someone...... it did not make me feel comfortable.

 

Again, this issue isn't going to keep me away from Silversea but does show, at least on this subject, lack of concern by the parent company of what their customers think.

 

Absolutely.

 

This sadly is the downside of a family business, where what often seems absolutely obvious to everyone else seems to be completely under the radar of the family. Perhaps they do not listen, or think, or perhaps it simply doesn't bother them what their customers think. Their customers are generous and clever enough to be able to choose their own pet causes and charities and shouldn't be accidentally suckered into accidental contributions to someone elses pet cause.

 

I remember last time this was discussed, many people thought they were contributing to the crew welfare fund and would have been more positively disposed towards the deduction for cash going towards the crew than this direction. The fact that The Family can't grasp or comprehend this is perplexing.

[duct tape]

Travelcat2, that is exactly what the family is counting on - the fact that telling the desk or your butler makes guests uncomfortable. Granted, in the great scheme of things, $1/per guest per day is no big deal. BUT Ask me, don't tell me. As I have said before, when SS starts donating to my favorite charity, I will donate to theirs, voluntarily.

[dusababy]

Doesn't make me one bit uncomfortable -- I just say NO.:)

[RachelG]

I am not uncomfortable just saying no, but I bet at least 75% of passengers either are uncomfortable or just don't pay attention to the fact that they are contributing.