VAT Tax ? on TA

[SAS21]

We are taking our fist TA leaving from New Orleans in April.

 

When will the VAT tax be added to ship purchases? Once we get to the Canary Islands or when we embark on the ship?

 

I was thinking of getting the replenish package. Only because I drink plenty bottled water (4-5 a day) and can't drink the ships water due to fluid retention. If the vat is added that's an additional $4 a day.

 

Thanks!

[TravelerThom]

We are taking our fist TA leaving from New Orleans in April. When will the VAT tax be added to ship purchases? Once we get to the Canary Islands or when we embark on the ship? I was thinking of getting the replenish package. Only because I drink plenty bottled water (4-5 a day) and can't drink the ships water due to fluid retention. If the vat is added that's an additional $4 a day...

Actually there is no VAT in the Canary Islands (yes, there is IGIC, but no Spanish VAT) so the VAT should not kick in until arrival in Malaga. I THINK that the VAT would apply only to purchases made from Malaga forward, and packages purchased prior to Malaga would be VAT free in their entirety.

 

I am confused as to why bottled water is better than the ship water for fluid retention. The ship distills their own water and I suspect it is lower in minerals etc than most, if not all, bottled water. What am I missing?

 

Thom

[robtulipe]

It's only drinks that are ordered and billed to your onboard account while in port that is taxed and not the drink packages which are billed once the ship is at sea thus the sale isn't an in port one. Also products from the package can be supplied to you while in a port as it isn't a sale billed to your account;)

[robtulipe]

I am confused as to why bottled water is better than the ship water for fluid retention. The ship distills their own water and I suspect it is lower in minerals etc than most, if not all, bottled water. What am I missing?

 

Thom

This is what I posted in the thread below which gets into the quality of ship's water and why it can contain high amount of sodium.

Actually most ships use reverse osmosis to supplement the high energy consuming distillation process for desalination of sea water. This happens if not enough no cost waste heat is available from the engines for the operation of the distillation units so the ship's water likely has a high sodium content which is not good for those who have hypertension. That's the reason, along with high sodium containing food, that many swell up badly when onboard cruise ship.

We stuck to drinking bottled water which we brought onboard at embarkation and our port stops for our last two cruises and didn't have the swelling problem we've had on our cruises in the past.

 

Yes, sea water purified by RO can contain sodium. That's what I've read and discussed with my son who has a PHD in chemical engineering and doesn't research in the purification of solvent and drug solution at the university he teaches at. Simply put a sodium ion, Molecular Weight 23, is only slightly larger than a H2O molecule, MW 18, so it's difficult to design a reverse osmosis semipermeable membrane that doesn't allow some of the approximately 1.6% sodium ions contained in typical sea water from going through to the other side of the membrane where the almost pure water is collected. Reverse osmosis is much more energy efficient than distillation but the trade off is the water is not completely sodium free as is sea water purified by distillation.

See http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=42080107#post42080107

Edited March 21, 2014 by robtulipe

[uksimonusa]

As far as I can remember, the Spanish VAT is added to all purchases onboard, when the cruise leaves from Spain and only visits EU countries. In your case you are leaving from the US so there should be no VAT. They may charge VAT when the ship is docked in an EU port though.

[robtulipe]

As far as I can remember, the Spanish VAT is added to all purchases onboard, when the cruise leaves from Spain and only visits EU countries. In your case you are leaving from the US so there should be no VAT. They may charge VAT when the ship is docked in an EU port though.

Yes, that is my take on the EC countries VAT also. In fact for the Caribbean Princess British Isles cruise we did two years ago the itinerary had Guernsey in the Channel Islands as the only non-EEC port and even though the seas were way too rough for tendering thus no passengers went ashore the ship still made its stop there so our cruise could remain a VAT free one.

Also we've done cruises out of Palma, Spain. Itinerary with non EEC port had no VAT and port duty free shop operating or open in Palma when we embarked. Itinerary with all EEC ports had VAT and port duty free was not open at embarkation.

Edited March 21, 2014 by robtulipe

[TravelerThom]

This is what I posted in the thread below which gets into the quality of ship's water and why it can contain high amount of sodium.

Okay, thanks. I'll revise my thinking on sodium levels on ships. [Fortunately I have no pressing need to monitor sodium levels (although I do try to keep it down), so obviously I had not researched it thoroughly.]

 

Thom

[SAS21]

Thanks everyone. I knew I could get my answer here.

 

Thom,

Not that is anyone's business as to why I would purchase water but here goes.

 

On my first 2 cruises, I had terrible swelling of both my feet and hands the entire cruise after the first 2 days.

 

So on my next cruise, I drank only bottled water, avoided the lemonade and tea.

It worked. Limited swelling, since I can't avoid some things made with ship's water.

 

Some purchase alcohol, I purchase water.

[roothy123]

I have been following a thread on another cruise line's board about Spanish VAT. I am still confused as to what VAT will be charged on our cruise that visits a number of Spanish ports. We start in Portugal but visit a Spanish port the next day, then travel a bit in "exempt" ports (Gibraltar and Canary Islands) plus one Portuguese port, and then hit a number of Spanish ports. Is it likely we'll be charged the 10% bar tax any day we're in Spain, or approaching Spain (how close?!) or for the rest of the cruise once we hit the first Spanish port early on in the cruise? I think what I'm hearing is that since we stop in the Canary Islands and Gibraltar, we will simply be charged when in Spanish waters (whatever that is!) but wanted to be sure. What about the 21% charge for items purchased from the ship's store for cruises departing from Spain? We don't, but if we did, would we be taxed 21% if we charged something in the ship's store while in the vicinity of Spain? Aren't cruise ship stores closed until they get out into international water anyway, so no need to worry about that?

 

Just out of curiosity, what is IGIC?

 

Thanks for any clarification you can give me; hope I didn't hijack your thread!

Edited June 19, 2014 by roothy123

[TravelerThom]

I have been following a thread on another cruise line's board about Spanish VAT. I am still confused as to what VAT will be charged on our cruise that visits a number of Spanish ports. We start in Portugal but visit a Spanish port the next day, then travel a bit in "exempt" ports (Gibraltar and Canary Islands) plus one Portuguese port, and then hit a number of Spanish ports. Is it likely we'll be charged the 10% bar tax any day we're in Spain, or approaching Spain (how close?!) or for the rest of the cruise once we hit the first Spanish port early on in the cruise? I think what I'm hearing is that since we stop in the Canary Islands and Gibraltar, we will simply be charged when in Spanish waters (whatever that is!) but wanted to be sure. What about the 21% charge for items purchased from the ship's store for cruises departing from Spain? We don't, but if we did, would we be taxed 21% if we charged something in the ship's store while in the vicinity of Spain? Aren't cruise ship stores closed until they get out into international water anyway, so no need to worry about that?

 

Just out of curiosity, what is IGIC?...

With the cruise you describe I don't have much clue what tax will be charged when - sorry. It is true that most ship stores are closed while in port, but bars are certainly open.

 

IGIC is Impuesto General Indirecto de Canarias. See http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/taxation/other_taxes/canary_islands/index_en.htm for more info.

[Clarea]

As far as I can remember, the Spanish VAT is added to all purchases onboard, when the cruise leaves from Spain and only visits EU countries. In your case you are leaving from the US so there should be no VAT. They may charge VAT when the ship is docked in an EU port though.

That was our experience too, on the reverse TA from Barcelona to the US. In fact, we were able to get VAT refunds for anything that we purchased in Spanish ports during that cruise.

[ehfl]

Technically, it's the sodium to potassium ratio that may cause fluid retention in some people. It's not the total sodium, but the ratio between sodium and potassium ions. If you encounter additional sodium (due to the water on board or salty foods) simply take potassium supplements to bring your electrolytes back into balance so that you won't retain water.

 

A lot of people think they gained weight on a cruise due to overeating, but it may be simply a case of fluid retention. Getting adequate potassium intake can counteract this effect.

 

http://www.livestrong.com/article/225763-the-effects-of-potassium-on-water-retention/

Edited June 19, 2014 by ehfl

[abo]

I have been following a thread on another cruise line's board about Spanish VAT. I am still confused as to what VAT will be charged on our cruise that visits a number of Spanish ports. We start in Portugal but visit a Spanish port the next day, then travel a bit in "exempt" ports (Gibraltar and Canary Islands) plus one Portuguese port, and then hit a number of Spanish ports. Is it likely we'll be charged the 10% bar tax any day we're in Spain, or approaching Spain (how close?!) or for the rest of the cruise once we hit the first Spanish port early on in the cruise? I think what I'm hearing is that since we stop in the Canary Islands and Gibraltar, we will simply be charged when in Spanish waters (whatever that is!) but wanted to be sure. What about the 21% charge for items purchased from the ship's store for cruises departing from Spain? We don't, but if we did, would we be taxed 21% if we charged something in the ship's store while in the vicinity of Spain? Aren't cruise ship stores closed until they get out into international water anyway, so no need to worry about that?

 

Just out of curiosity, what is IGIC?

 

Thanks for any clarification you can give me; hope I didn't hijack your thread!

 

 

For most cruises in Europe the situation is much simpler than many people seem to appreciate. If a cruise only stops at ports that are within the EEC VAT regulations, then the whole cruise is subject to VAT for any purchases onboard. If the cruise stops at any ports that are not within EEC VAT regulations, all purchases onboard will be free of VAT. For this second category, if VAT is chargeable whilst in port (it often is) the shops, etc will usually remain closed until the ship is clear of the port.

 

In the case of the above cruise, the stops in the Canaries and Gibraltar are sufficient to make the cruise not subject to VAT,

 

There are other complications for longer cruises if they do not go outside the EU for 7 days or more, but these tend to be more exceptional.

[framboesa]

I was on the TA (fort Lauderdale to Barcelona -stops Lisbon,Cadiz,Mallorca) last month and there was a tax only for drinks we buy onboard after we arrive to Cadiz and until the end of the cruise.

 

There was no information about tax until almost we arrive to Spain and nobody could give us an exact answer, but then they charged the 10% tax (VAT) in all drinks onboard after Cadiz.

 

The shops onboard had no tax, but when we asked during the first days we had different answers, ones saying that there will be a tax for sure and others saying that there will not be a tax. :confused:But there was no tax for the shops.

[nelblu]

Okay, thanks. I'll revise my thinking on sodium levels on ships. [Fortunately I have no pressing need to monitor sodium levels (although I do try to keep it down), so obviously I had not researched it thoroughly.]

 

Thom

 

Hey, we drink lot's of the ship's water at dinner time and it tastes good.

[robtulipe]

Hey, we drink lot's of the ship's water at dinner time and it tastes good.

 

The MDR water is served ice cold which tends to numb your taste buds and you are likely use to a high salt NA diet.

http://www.wikihow.com/Dull-Your-Taste-Buds

[tokyo1949]

As far as I can remember, the Spanish VAT is added to all purchases onboard, when the cruise leaves from Spain and only visits EU countries. In your case you are leaving from the US so there should be no VAT. They may charge VAT when the ship is docked in an EU port though.

 

We did the TA from New Orleans to barcelona this April. Vat was added to purchases as soon as the ship entered Spanish waters. A 10% tax was added to drinks and speciality dining as well called a use and entertainment tax.

[krumyilingy]

They may charge VAT when the ship is docked in an EU port though.

[abo]

We did the TA from New Orleans to barcelona this April. Vat was added to purchases as soon as the ship entered Spanish waters. A 10% tax was added to drinks and speciality dining as well called a use and entertainment tax.

 

 

My understanding is that Spanish IVA (VAT) should only become payable if either 1. The cruise departs from Spain and the cruise never leaves the EU, or 2. The cruise spend a fixed number of days (I think it's 7) without leaving the EU once it has entered Spanish waters.

 

However it is likely that RCI charges this from the point of entering Spanish waters so that they can keep the bars open whilst in port. This isn't unreasonable - a lot of people would not be happy if they couldn't have a drink whilst in port and this is valuable revenue RCI would be giving up. (The shops typically are closed whilst in port to avoid the need to charge IVA on all purchases whilst docked).

 

I don't believe there is any such thing as 'Use and entertainment' tax in Spain (or anywhere else in the EU). Spanish sales tax should have been called IVA on any receipt. Not doubting the description you saw, but I don't really understand why RCI don't just call it what it is!

[goose30]

The VAT is a very complicated issue. Not even sure the cruise lines have it right. The collection seems to be associated with cruises involving Spain. Simple solution. Avoid all cruises that involve Spain in any way!