Service Charges on NCL

[sparks1093]

As I have said, I want a higher priced cruise that includes fair wages for the service employees. Price out the clowns that are now cruising.

 

Many here have already said that guests remove service fee's. Pay them an hourly wage, not a salary. I do not remember ever suggesting giving them a salary. They are laborers. I stood in line at GS and heard quiet a few remove their service charge. That is built into the the $12 a day "service charge". The added cost to the cruise would probably not even be $12 a day. I will also add that here in the states tipping pools can not be used for workers such as dishwashers, cooks, chefs, and janitors according to the department of labor.

 

It is becoming more and more difficult to discuss this topic. You are saying that the $12 is a motivation and then you have others that say tips are not a motivation.

 

Pretty much time to give up the debate. We have exhausted all arguments.

 

Bottom line for me, Charge a little more for the cruise by adding it to the bill at time of reservation, just as they do with taxes and port charges. Encourage people to reward servers/maids that go above and beyond, just as we all do when we go out to eat here in the states, or to the person cutting our hair, the postal worker, the bartender at the local watering hole, doormen, maids at the hotel and the like.

 

I think your second sentence is very telling. I cannot address what others have said, but you yourself have said that service has gone down hill because the crew knows they are getting the $12 service charge but if we add it into the fare the crew will somehow become motivated because some passengers may decide to tip them over their salary. I fail to see the logic in that reasoning.

 

On one hand you have a de-motivated workforce because they know that they will get a share of a service charge even though if they provide exemplary service they have the opportunity to earn extra in tips that all of a sudden will become motivated because they know they are gauranteed a salary because some people may leave a tip if they provide exemplary service. I suspect that this is more about the clowns than it is the crew.

 

As for the debate it's a moot debate in any event because neither of us has an impact on the outcome. (And if you truly want a higher priced cruise that includes fair wages for the crew with the opportunity for you to tip if you feel it's worth it than those options are available as I understand it with Crystal and Silversea among others.)

[Tutankhamen]

Price out the clowns that are now cruising.

 

 

Speak for yourself pal. That is an insult to Co-Co

I am speaking for myself. Insult or not, the behavior on ships have declined as the prices have declined.

 

Standing in line at the buffet with a toothless man, smelling like butt, with a stained tank top, using profanity with every other word is not my idea of a fun time. I am guessing, and only guessing that the $499.00 base rate is what attracted this guy and made it possible for him to cruise. This is the same guy you see in line at GS to remove the "service charge".

 

My apologies if what I feel and communicated offended you, but I do not retract what I said.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Tutankhamen

[kandagal1939]

We are soon to go on our first cruise with NCL. As Australians (with no tipping in our culture) & after reading all this thread I am starting to feel uncomfortable. Maybe NCL is not for us & now I am losing all the pleasure & excitement of looking forward to our cruise. Mandatory charges (call it what you will - tipping or service charge) goes so against the grain for us. I'm not sure what the minimum wage is in USA (someone told me it was only about $5/hr.). In Australia the minimum wage is about $16/hr.

[Tutankhamen]

I think your second sentence is very telling.

 

It was meant to be telling. I have no problem admitting that I do not care to cruise with people that have not been raised to be respectful to their fellow cruisers. There are people that make minimum wage that I would love to cruise with. There are people that make over 500k a year that I would rather not cruise with. However, you go into the inner-city, in an area where people make minimum wage and the atmosphere turns into something I would rather not be exposed to. On the whole, minimum wage employees struggle with behaving in an acceptable manor. You may not admit that, but that has been my experience. Not going to get into a debate over the decline of passengers that I have noticed in the last 30 years.

(And if you truly want a higher priced cruise that includes fair wages for the crew with the opportunity for you to tip if you feel it's worth it than those options are available as I understand it with Crystal and Silversea among others.)

 

To stuffy. On whole, people in that price range have their nose to high in the air for my liking. Sure, some are the nicest down to earth people you would ever meet, but on the whole they are a little to uptight and stuffy for me.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Tutankhamen

[Tutankhamen]

We are soon to go on our first cruise with NCL. As Australians (with no tipping in our culture) & after reading all this thread I am starting to feel uncomfortable. Maybe NCL is not for us & now I am losing all the pleasure & excitement of looking forward to our cruise. Mandatory charges (call it what you will - tipping or service charge) goes so against the grain for us. I'm not sure what the minimum wage is in USA (someone told me it was only about $5/hr.). In Australia the minimum wage is about $16/hr.

 

 

You will have a great time. The Federal minimum wage in the US is $7.25.

[sparks1093]

It was meant to be telling. I have no problem admitting that I do not care to cruise with people that have not been raised to be respectful to their fellow cruisers. There are people that probably make minimum wage that I would love to cruise with. There are people that makeover 500k a year that I would rather not cruise with. However, you go into the inner-city, in an area where people make minimum wage and the atmosphere turns into something I would rather not be exposed to. On the whole, minimum wage employees struggle with behaving in an acceptable manor. You may not admit that, but that has been my experience. Not going to get into a debate over the decline of passengers that I have noticed in the last 30 years.

 

 

To stuffy. On whole, people in that price range have their nose to high in the air for my liking. Sure, some are the nicest down to earth people you would ever meet, but on the whole they are a little to uptight and stuffy for me.

 

Then your arguments are targeted to reach a certain result and are not meant to include logic or to be answered logically. You want the service charges included in the fare to exclude certain people and all the talk of "motivating the staff" is meaningless. I hope that you are able one day to find a cruise line that suits you.

[sparks1093]

We are soon to go on our first cruise with NCL. As Australians (with no tipping in our culture) & after reading all this thread I am starting to feel uncomfortable. Maybe NCL is not for us & now I am losing all the pleasure & excitement of looking forward to our cruise. Mandatory charges (call it what you will - tipping or service charge) goes so against the grain for us. I'm not sure what the minimum wage is in USA (someone told me it was only about $5/hr.). In Australia the minimum wage is about $16/hr.

 

I've always gone by the maxim "when in Rome do as the Romans do" when traveling. You cannot sail on any mainstream line here in the states and escape the tip or service charge issue- it's what is expected and like it or not it does represent a large part of the income for many of the crew. I believe that the Spirit sails out of Australia and they include the service charge in the fare.

[Tutankhamen]

Then your arguments are targeted to reach a certain result and are not meant to include logic or to be answered logically. You want the service charges included in the fare to exclude certain people and all the talk of "motivating the staff" is meaningless. I hope that you are able one day to find a cruise line that suits you.

 

 

I have, I enjoy Celebrity, Princess, NCL and Carnival. In that order.

 

But, just because I have found something that "suits" me doesn't mean I don't see fault. Paid a good bit for my daily driver. But it is not perfect and has a few things I would like to see changed. That said, my next daily driver will probably be just the newer model, with hopefully improvements to the things that I and others find annoying.

[sjbdtz]

Sorry, if you do not understand the motivational value of tipping, I really have no way to open your eyes. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. To me, it absurd to think that tips do not motivate people to go above and beyond. Frankly, I feel as though you are now saying anything to try and substantiate your argument. I think, in the real world, you would have an extremely hard time getting anyone to say that tips are not a motivation for good service.

 

 

Do I really need to answer that? Serious, if you are going to use examples, use examples that correlate with the argument at hand. Like bartender at the local watering hole. Or the waitress at the local steakhouse.

 

 

See above.

 

 

See above.

 

 

 

See above.

 

 

 

Yes, I understand that. But we are talking about service employees. Service employees that work directly with guests. A job that is very very very entry level at the bottom of the chain.

 

 

 

Never said ONLY. I appreciate it if you do not put words in my mouth. We are discussing entry level, bottom of the ladder, undereducated servers, and maids.

 

 

Obviously you have not been exposed much to the food/hotel service industry.

 

 

 

I own my own company. So what? I have employees that are motivated by money. They are entry level hourly employees. I would go as far as to say, no more then 1 in 10 has the motivation to become anything other then a working drone. I wave cash bonuses around, and 9 out of 10 will go above and beyond to win the reward. The probability of them getting the quarterly challenge bonus, 5%. But 95% will work harder for that incentive, while knowing that their chance is only 5%. Well, most probably do not understand percentages, but you get the idea. 25 years of business is all the proof that I need that extra money is a big motivator with lower wage workers. You can say what you want about a Dr., Pilot., even the President or whomever, but you are way off base to say $'s is not a big motivator for low wage service employees. Here in the USA or from 3rd world countries. Done arguing the point that money is a motivation.

 

 

 

Wow, with statements like this, I am now understanding my frustrations with our debate. Add in the lengthly posts and it is becoming more apparent that it is more then difficult to have an intellectual debate with you. Can you stick to the cliff notes version?

 

I get it now. It's do as I say, not as I do. You want NCL to pay crew a fair wage, while you pay your employees the minimum & make them beg for bonuses. It makes sense.

 

I owned a restaurant with 210 seats (5000 sq ft) and 60 employees...I've seen tipping impact. I also know that I'd have had equally good servers if I'd attached service charges instead of tipping. How do I know this? Because I've stayed at many 5 & 6 star resorts where this is the modus operandi. And the service is impeccable.

 

 

If people would just leave the DSC as-is, then these are NOT low-end, entry-level, bottom-of-the-barrel jobs. They may look like it to you, but I don't pre-judge. These are good jobs which have some of the best, EDUCATED, people applying for them... so long as the income is consistent. Consistency is what is bred from the DSC.

 

 

 

 

We are soon to go on our first cruise with NCL. As Australians (with no tipping in our culture) & after reading all this thread I am starting to feel uncomfortable. Maybe NCL is not for us & now I am losing all the pleasure & excitement of looking forward to our cruise. Mandatory charges (call it what you will - tipping or service charge) goes so against the grain for us. I'm not sure what the minimum wage is in USA (someone told me it was only about $5/hr.). In Australia the minimum wage is about $16/hr.

 

 

The difference between your $16 and the $7.25 is simply broken-out in a $12/day Service Charge. You pay the fare upfront, and the service charge after the cruise....but it equates to the same thing.

 

In AUS and in the UK, the Service Charge is simply included in your cheque. I've seen chits in both countries which specify at the bottom of the bill that "service is included". All they did was make invisible to you, what NCL is making visible....that these people are being paid fairly.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[kandagal1939]

Maybe I shouldn't be cruising at all. We (husband & I) have as our only income old age pension paid by social security. Consequently for us to go on a cruise it means a lot of saving & going without a lot. The 28 day cruise I have planned would then cost us over $600 extra in service charges. And as I mentioned in an earlier post we often pay more for our cruise if booked from Australia & do not get the perks that you all take for granted eg OBC & other offers. Or maybe I should stick to Princess who do not add a service charge at all to ships that sail out of Australia.

[sparks1093]

I have, I enjoy Celebrity, Princess, NCL and Carnival. In that order.

 

But, just because I have found something that "suits" me doesn't mean I don't see fault. Paid a good bit for my daily driver. But it is not perfect and has a few things I would like to see changed. That said, my next daily driver will probably be just the newer model, with hopefully improvements to the things that I and others find annoying.

 

I'm glad that you have. The next time there's a debate regarding the service charge lead off with "I would like to see the service charge added to the cruise fare because I believe it would improve the quality of the passengers sailing with NCL" instead of taking the great circle route to get there. It will save wear and tear on everyone's keyboard;).

[SissasMomE]

To me, it absurd to think that tips do not motivate people to go above and beyond. Frankly, I feel as though you are now saying anything to try and substantiate your argument. I think, in the real world, you would have an extremely hard time getting anyone to say that tips are not a motivation for good service.

 

 

I waitressed while in college, and knowing I was going to be tipped was definitely motivation. A few times I bit my tongue when dealing with a needy or difficult patron, knowing that it would affect my tip.

[SissasMomE]

I am speaking for myself. Insult or not, the behavior on ships have declined as the prices have declined.

 

Standing in line at the buffet with a toothless man, smelling like butt, with a stained tank top, using profanity with every other word is not my idea of a fun time. I am guessing, and only guessing that the $499.00 base rate is what attracted this guy and made it possible for him to cruise. This is the same guy you see in line at GS to remove the "service charge".

 

My apologies if what I feel and communicated offended you, but I do not retract what I said.

 

I could not agree with you more. It's pathetic what you see now on a ship. Appalling even. I wish they would raise the bar back to what it was. I do not mind paying more. All of the mainstream lines are too much like Carnival / Walmart now.

[Ewoodspark]

I waitressed while in college, and knowing I was going to be tipped was definitely motivation. A few times I bit my tongue when dealing with a needy or difficult patron, knowing that it would affect my tip.

I note that for the past four years you have sailed with NCL. I would suggest that if you are not happy with the clientele on NCL with the freestyle attire, then book on the "posher" lines like P & O

[SissasMomE]

Maybe I shouldn't be cruising at all. We (husband & I) have as our only income old age pension paid by social security. Consequently for us to go on a cruise it means a lot of saving & going without a lot. The 28 day cruise I have planned would then cost us over $600 extra in service charges. And as I mentioned in an earlier post we often pay more for our cruise if booked from Australia & do not get the perks that you all take for granted eg OBC & other offers. Or maybe I should stick to Princess who do not add a service charge at all to ships that sail out of Australia.

 

I can pretty much guarantee you are paying it on Princess - they just incorporated it into your fare.

[SissasMomE]

I note that for the past four years you have sailed with NCL. I would suggest that if you are not happy with the clientele on NCL with the freestyle attire, then book on the "posher" lines like P & O

 

Well thank you for the suggestion :rolleyes:

 

Having cruised since the early 80's, like the OP, I have witnessed a vast decline in the type of cruiser. It is nothing today like it was "back then". Also like the OP, I am not a fan of snobby rich people, and thus avoid the more expensive lines.

[sparks1093]

Well thank you for the suggestion :rolleyes:

 

Having cruised since the early 80's, like the OP, I have witnessed a vast decline in the type of cruiser. It is nothing today like it was "back then". Also like the OP, I am not a fan of snobby rich people, and thus avoid the more expensive lines.

 

Of course since the early 80's there has been an overall decline in behavior within our culture. I would expect there's a correlation. I tend to ignore boorish behavior unless it's directly impacting me or mine.

[SissasMomE]

Of course since the early 80's there has been an overall decline in behavior within our culture. I would expect there's a correlation. I tend to ignore boorish behavior unless it's directly impacting me or mine.

 

Yes, I agree. It's not just cruising - it's everywhere. You are right.

[NLH Arizona]

Well thank you for the suggestion :rolleyes:

 

Having cruised since the early 80's, like the OP, I have witnessed a vast decline in the type of cruiser. It is nothing today like it was "back then". Also like the OP, I am not a fan of snobby rich people, and thus avoid the more expensive lines.

In addition to NCL, I cruise Celebrity and Crystal and I can tell you first hand, that I've seen as many snobby rich people on those lines, as I've seen toothless, smelly, swearing people on NCL.....very few if any.

[SissasMomE]

In addition to NCL, I cruise Celebrity and Crystal and I can tell you first hand, that I've seen as many snobby rich people on those lines, as I've seen toothless, smelly, swearing people on NCL.....very few if any.

 

I don't recall ever saying there were smelly, toothless people. I have seen / heard people use foul language, drunks, fighting .... things you never would have seen before. As Sparks pointed out though, it is indicitive of society today, as a whole ... unfortunately.

 

As for smelly, toothless people ... I volunteer at a soup kitchen. Some of those folks are more gracious and pleasant to be around, and would give you the shirt off their backs, than folks who do not need assistance. Edited - I know you weren't making fun of poor people. I am just saying that it really has nothing to do with how much money someone has at all.

Edited April 9, 2014 by SissasMomE

[mjkacmom]

I don't recall ever saying there were smelly, toothless people. I have seen / heard people use foul language, drunks, fighting .... things you never would have seen before. As Sparks pointed out though, it is indicitive of society today, as a whole ... unfortunately.

 

As for smelly, toothless people ... I volunteer at a soup kitchen. Some of those folks are more gracious and pleasant to be around, and would give you the shirt off their backs, than folks who do not need assistance. Edited - I know you weren't making fun of poor people. I am just saying that it really has nothing to do with how much money someone has at all.

 

I think that sentence was aimed at king toot, who wants to cruise with the mass cruiselines because he doesn't fit in with the rich, well educated folk, but doesn't want to cruise with the riff-raff....

[NLH Arizona]

I don't recall ever saying there were smelly, toothless people. I have seen / heard people use foul language, drunks, fighting .... things you never would have seen before. As Sparks pointed out though, it is indicitive of society today, as a whole ... unfortunately.

 

As for smelly, toothless people ... I volunteer at a soup kitchen. Some of those folks are more gracious and pleasant to be around, and would give you the shirt off their backs, than folks who do not need assistance. Edited - I know you weren't making fun of poor people. I am just saying that it really has nothing to do with how much money someone has at all.

 

You didn't, but one of the other posters generalized about those that cruise NCL, just as you are generalizing about those that cruise on more expensive lines as being snobby, by saying: I am not a fan of snobby rich people, and thus avoid the more expensive lines.

 

Agree with you, you can't judge a book by its cover; it doesn't matter if one is rich or poor. But just as you say you don't want anyone to judge those with less, please don't judge those with more and assume that they are snobby. There are good and bad people on both sides of the coin. I've met wonderful people on NCL, Celebrity and Crystal and it had nothing to do with how much they had or didn't have, it had to do with the person.

Edited April 9, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[LrgPizza]

Well thank you for the suggestion :rolleyes:

 

Having cruised since the early 80's, like the OP, I have witnessed a vast decline in the type of cruiser. It is nothing today like it was "back then". Also like the OP, I am not a fan of snobby rich people, and thus avoid the more expensive lines.

I'm actually drawn to snobby people. I can't make fun of them if I'm staying too far away. I treat making fun of snobs as a competitive sport.

[SissasMomE]

You didn't, but one of the other posters generalized about those that cruise NCL, just as you are generalizing about those that cruise on more expensive lines as being snobby, by saying: I am not a fan of snobby rich people, and thus avoid the more expensive lines.

 

Agree with you, you can't judge a book by its cover; it doesn't matter if one is rich or poor. But just as you say you don't want anyone to judge those with less, please don't judge those with more and assume that they are snobby. There are good and bad people on both sides of the coin. I've met wonderful people on NCL, Celebrity and Crystal and it had nothing to do with how much they had or didn't have, it had to do with the person.

 

Yes, you are absolutely correct!

[JLBKL]

I am speaking for myself. Insult or not, the behavior on ships have declined as the prices have declined.

 

Standing in line at the buffet with a toothless man, smelling like butt, with a stained tank top, using profanity with every other word is not my idea of a fun time. I am guessing, and only guessing that the $499.00 base rate is what attracted this guy and made it possible for him to cruise. This is the same guy you see in line at GS to remove the "service charge".

 

My apologies if what I feel and communicated offended you, but I do not retract what I said.

 

 

 

The $499 base rate allows the rest of us to cruise; we have all our teeth, we don't smell like butt, nor do we use profanity; and I more than happily prepaid the service charges, and in fact tipped some more while on board as the service was outstanding and more than I ever expected.

 

While yes the inexpensive cruise fare allowed me and my children a once in a lifetime experience, I don't believe we hindered anyone's experience in anyway.

 

I don't think it matters if it's $499 or $4999; there will always be rude, inconsiderate people regardless of income or background. Unfortunately that's our society today.

 

When I booked our cruise, I didn't think twice about the prepaid gratuity, I considered it part of the cost of the trip, just like airfare. And all huge extra costs on airfare after the base rate! Whether another cruise line hides it or tells you up front, it's part of their paycheque and they deserve it. Especially after seeing the employees in action, they more than deserve it!!

 

I would not want to have to put up with some of the behaviour and actions I saw towards the employees, that's for sure! I felt bad for them and I ensured me and my children were extra polite and grateful for what they did for us onboard. It was a dream to be served and looked after like that, and it was worth every penny of the gratuities, in my humble opinion!

 

 

 

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