Two Killed in Cruise Ship Berthing Accident on Independence of the Sea

[chengkp75]

I feel very badly for these two men, the crew, and passengers.

 

Perhaps the IOS needed to leave after 4 hours, based on tides. I am not a mariner, and certainly not familiar with the areas underwater hazards, but at a certain point, it may no longer be possible for the ship to safely navigate the shipping lane. Such a large vessel probably normally cuts it close, so waiting until the lowest tide might have made for a problem both at the dock and in the channel. If she were stuck in port until the tide turned (if she could even stay and not run aground), it may have created havoc in the channel for all other vessels, including cruise ships, tankers, cargo, and ferry vessels. Again, I do not know the hazards, or even the tidal chart for the area, but considering the media attention and the small size of the community where it occurred, I personally doubt that RCI was trying to flee the scene or hamper the investigation. And my understanding of these huge engines (azipods/thrusters, ect) is that it takes a few minutes to start them, and an equal amount of time to turn them off, they are not an on/off switch, but technologically challenging, very fickle machines made to run long and hard, not switch like a key in a car engine.

 

Without these dock workers, the ships could not dock. These people matter, every day, to both the visitors and the residents of the islands, which rely on shipping for everything they have. Cruise ships would not be able to dock or leave. The dock workers deserve a lot of credit for their hard, dangerous work, but accidents can happen. We should not call for someone to lose their job, or assume a payoff, or a poorly done investigation if we were not there for the situation. should they have had better safety gear? likely yes. Was there a mistake in communication on the IOS? again, quite probably, yes. Was/is there an investigation, using statements and ship data? to be sure. all we can do is wait for a formal report, pray for all those involved or witnessed, and appreciate dock workers around the world for their hard and dangerous work with cargo, pleasure, and military vessels.

 

I agree with you. Regardless of the sailing conditions in the port, if the Kittsian authorities decided that they needed to gather more information from the ship, whether crew or passenger, they would not have cleared the ship to depart, and would have required her to return to the dock. Until a ship is 12 miles offshore, the ship cannot deny boarding to an official of the country involved, and that official would have had the ship return to port.

[LuckiStac13*Majesty*]

I agree with you. Regardless of the sailing conditions in the port, if the Kittsian authorities decided that they needed to gather more information from the ship, whether crew or passenger, they would not have cleared the ship to depart, and would have required her to return to the dock. Until a ship is 12 miles offshore, the ship cannot deny boarding to an official of the country involved, and that official would have had the ship return to port.

 

Thanks again for all the great info you provide - it is much appreciated.

[critterchick]

I can remember back to, I think, 2005, on the Monarch of the Seas, where 5 crew members lost their life while cleaning a waste system, that had gas, and injured even the doctors that were trying to help.

 

We were just disembarking when the fire engines and ambulances came onto the pier in San Pedro. Both the captain and chief engineer were ex orated, but there was a safety issue involved.

 

Regarding the IOS, you are right in your judgment about being innocent, until the investigation is over, whether it was an innocent act or why a bridge officer (captain or staff captain) started the azipods. Only time will tell........when the dust settles, and all of the facts are known, even, if we passengers never find out.

 

It's probably not our right to even know what goes on, as no passengers were injured.

 

Rick

 

We boarded the ship later that day. Mercifully, it was 3, not 5, who lost their lives, and all but one of those who were injured trying to help them returned to the ship before the ship sailed. The Coast Guard and CDC were there until about 5:00pm to get all of the details and ensure the safety of the crew and passengers. Although we didn't have any "right" to know what had happened, they did a brilliant job of keeping people advised of the circumstances. And it was incredible how the crew pulled together to make our cruise enjoyable after losing three members of their family.

 

I can think of several reasons why Independence would have had to leave the scene within a few hours, including the possibility of another ship needing the berth that night or in the morning. Life does go on even in tragic circumstances.

Edited April 7, 2014 by critterchick

[ahecht]

In a death investigation, no stone should be left unturned and in my opinion there is something wrong here. There is NO way this ship should have left St Kitts 4 hrs. after this incident. There should have been investigators on board the ship in St. Kitt to interview and take statements from ALL witnesses and crew. This was never done. There should have been blood tests of ALL officers on the bridge , collection of videos and photos taken by passengers - this never done.

 

If you read the statement from SCASPA, they got statements from the crews on both ships and it sounds like there was surveillance video of the incident from the Celebrity ship, which is why they didn't need to get passenger video or interview passengers (and given how wildly different the eyewitness accounts here have been, they're probably better off not taking them into account).

[grand isle joe]

 

 

Lets say that someone runs into your car. The police show up. They say, okay, we have all the information we need at the scene, we will let you both know the results of the investigation when it is completed. Does your honor require you to stop driving until then, since you are legally responsible for your actions while driving, and you don't want to say its not my fault? I mean really.

 

......but nobody died when I was "run" into.........over and out.....

[cruzincurt]

I was on the Independence of the Seas when this tragic accident occurred. I did not see the actual capsizing of the boat, but Celebrity Solstice definitely did NOT have any thrusters on. There was a barge tied up on the port side of Solstice refueling it. There was a tug boat holding the barge in place that might have added to the "churning" of the water.

As our captain on the Silhouette stated the next day, 10 witnesses gave him 10 different stories.

 

He also stated that the captain is always in command regardless if a pilot is on board.

 

So, the above "Solstice" comment (which is not the ship's name) indicates how eyewitness facts are often wrong.

 

The men were recovered around 6:00 PM, the Silhouette was permitted to leave around 9:00 PM per our captain. When we left, the Independence was still there.

[boeingbenn]

I was on IOS about 50ft forward of the accident on deck 4. Some clarifications/notes/thoughts -

 

The azipods started up before the mooring lines were even out of the water, which I though was odd, but didn't think about the risk to the boat at that time. I looked away, and looked back to see the boat right after it flipped, and no sign of the two crewmen. The azipods were shut down pretty quickly, given that the word would have had to pass from the crew at the rear of the IOS, to the bridge, and then to the controls (but it was an interminably long time when you're sitting there watching it). Those props are too big to stop quickly, and the water kept moving for quite a while after they stopped.

 

With life jackets on, I think they could have held their breath and come up on the other side of Silhouette in about 20 seconds (remember that the aft end of the ship doesn't have much of a draft). But if the turbulence caused you to get knocked unconscious...

 

On the last night of the cruise at the goodbye show, they said that the captain was going on vacation the next day. I read that a bit differently from what they said. As an airline captain, I figured he's done as a captain for RCCL (similar to Southwest at LGA, with no loss of life in that case). It's too much liability for the cruise line to keep him, on the off-chance that something else happened with him down the road, whether or not he was at all to blame in the incident. Far better to pay him to retire.

[LuckiStac13*Majesty*]

I was on IOS about 50ft forward of the accident on deck 4. Some clarifications/notes/thoughts -

 

The azipods started up before the mooring lines were even out of the water, which I though was odd, but didn't think about the risk to the boat at that time. I looked away, and looked back to see the boat right after it flipped, and no sign of the two crewmen. The azipods were shut down pretty quickly, given that the word would have had to pass from the crew at the rear of the IOS, to the bridge, and then to the controls (but it was an interminably long time when you're sitting there watching it). Those props are too big to stop quickly, and the water kept moving for quite a while after they stopped.

 

With life jackets on, I think they could have held their breath and come up on the other side of Silhouette in about 20 seconds (remember that the aft end of the ship doesn't have much of a draft). But if the turbulence caused you to get knocked unconscious...

 

On the last night of the cruise at the goodbye show, they said that the captain was going on vacation the next day. I read that a bit differently from what they said. As an airline captain, I figured he's done as a captain for RCCL (similar to Southwest at LGA, with no loss of life in that case). It's too much liability for the cruise line to keep him, on the off-chance that something else happened with him down the road, whether or not he was at all to blame in the incident. Far better to pay him to retire.

 

Thanks for adding what you witnessed...I figured the same as you did about the Captain. Such a shame, all around.

[A&L_Ont]

I was on IOS about 50ft forward of the accident on deck 4. Some clarifications/notes/thoughts -

 

The azipods started up before the mooring lines were even out of the water, which I though was odd, but didn't think about the risk to the boat at that time. I looked away, and looked back to see the boat right after it flipped, and no sign of the two crewmen. The azipods were shut down pretty quickly, given that the word would have had to pass from the crew at the rear of the IOS, to the bridge, and then to the controls (but it was an interminably long time when you're sitting there watching it). Those props are too big to stop quickly, and the water kept moving for quite a while after they stopped.

 

With life jackets on, I think they could have held their breath and come up on the other side of Silhouette in about 20 seconds (remember that the aft end of the ship doesn't have much of a draft). But if the turbulence caused you to get knocked unconscious...

 

On the last night of the cruise at the goodbye show, they said that the captain was going on vacation the next day. I read that a bit differently from what they said. As an airline captain, I figured he's done as a captain for RCCL (similar to Southwest at LGA, with no loss of life in that case). It's too much liability for the cruise line to keep him, on the off-chance that something else happened with him down the road, whether or not he was at all to blame in the incident. Far better to pay him to retire.

 

Thanks for your input Benn. It is an informative first post, after being a member of CC for over 10 years. It is an unfortunate accident and hopefully this loss of life will somehow bring about some good by preventing this from happening again.

[chengkp75]

On the last night of the cruise at the goodbye show, they said that the captain was going on vacation the next day. I read that a bit differently from what they said. As an airline captain, I figured he's done as a captain for RCCL (similar to Southwest at LGA, with no loss of life in that case). It's too much liability for the cruise line to keep him, on the off-chance that something else happened with him down the road, whether or not he was at all to blame in the incident. Far better to pay him to retire.

 

I tend to disagree, for the reasons I've listed before. Provided that the Kittsian police do not press charges, and the Bahamian Maritime Authority does not move against his license, I would expect him to continue sailing. Hell, even Schettino caused another cruise ship to go aground a couple of years before the Concordia, and was allowed to continue sailing, as there was no official censure in that event.

[rubrrick]

We boarded the ship later that day. Mercifully, it was 3, not 5, who lost their lives, and all but one of those who were injured trying to help them returned to the ship before the ship sailed. The Coast Guard and CDC were there until about 5:00pm to get all of the details and ensure the safety of the crew and passengers. Although we didn't have any "right" to know what had happened, they did a brilliant job of keeping people advised of the circumstances. And it was incredible how the crew pulled together to make our cruise enjoyable after losing three members of their family.

 

I can think of several reasons why Independence would have had to leave the scene within a few hours, including the possibility of another ship needing the berth that night or in the morning. Life does go on even in tragic circumstances.

 

Thank goodness your memory is better than mine Jean......you are right...it was 3. The original report, as we were sitting at a bar at LAX waiting for flight back to PHX......was that 5 were killed. I guess that is why it stuck in my mind, even though on our next cruise, Captain Hakan Lindegren told me it was 3.

 

Rick

[Big_G]

Agree completely with regard to respecting jurisdictions BUT ALL evidence and statements from ALL witnesses should have been taken that evening, not just from RCI and their personnel.. That is universal law enforcement and that wasn't done. Collecting evidence and statements from only the cruise line and it's staff is NOT a complete and accurate picture and unfortunately it can never be done now.

 

From one retired law enforcement executive to another, you're imposing our professional standards on another country. While what you say may be true in the US, it's hard to say the same holds true in St. Kitts.

[alreadypacked]

Just returned from IOTS - I did not witness the actual event - but my friend who I was traveling with saw the entire event from her balcony. I saw the event from the time Oscar was called.

Lots of speculation about what happened from ppl who weren't there and didn't see it.

Outcome is - 2 people died. It was very sad and my friend and a lot of people who witnessed 2 men die are very upset. No one ever wants to see something like that and to be helpless to do anything but wait for other ppl to help - which no one did immediately. Not even anyone on the pier.

 

Someone on IOTS didn't do their job IMO and didn't even see that they caused this event. It was passengers such as my friend making calls to alert them of the event.

 

I would think someone would need to be watching to know that the last rope was removed and they had the all clear to go. So, how they didn't see it is beyond me. (Again - not a mariner - just a regular person)

 

After we were already pulling out of port - it took a while for engines to be shut down and for us to stop and launch rescue - so to the person who made comments about the ship being right there - it wasn't still in the berthing area. (Maybe 1/4 mile or so out I'm guessing). Remember it is a cruise ship and takes a while to stop.) IMO if someone on the bridge would have been watching and they would have turned off the azipods, it might have made a difference, but who can say. I think the men were sucked under and didn't have much chance. (Just my guess, I'm not a mariner). It doesn't take much for someone to be sucked under and drown, especially if they were thrown and had a head injury or were knocked out.

 

So the report from my friend is:

The boat was removing the mooring lines from the pylons (someone else called them dolphins) there were 2 that had to be accessed by boat.

They did the 1st one and went to the 2nd one and the guy had to jump from the boat, climb a ladder on the pylon, remove the line & jump back on his boat.

As he stepped back onto his boat - he was standing near the windshield when IOTS fired up the azipods and created an unstable environment for the boat to be in (swirling, turbulent waters). The guy standing on the bow of the boat was thrown from the boat, the boat was catapulted into the Silhouette, where it flipped up and overturned.

3 Guests (NOT staff) on IOTS immediately deployed life rings. Unfortunately neither man resurfaced to be able to grab one.

IOTS deployed a rescue vessel within about 10 - 15 min of accident once boat stopped.

They were first in scene. Eventually a st kitts rescue boat with divers and police / coast guard boat joined in the search.

They kept searching for 2+ hours before bodies were recovered.

It took celebrity silhouette over 30 minutes after IOTS launched rescue to launch and join the effort.

Many guests Onboard told them to search near the pier area - one girl even had a good picture - and they continued searching with the current.

Eventually the poor men were found near the pier I believe.

It was quite a sad situation.

Had they been wearing proper life vests - maybe a different outcome, but who knows. Nobody wears life vests I'm noticing. When they launched the rescue from our ship - of the 3 men on the boat - I believe only 1 wore a life vest.

When the harbor masters departed our ship to the pilot boats in most ports - none of them wore a life vest either. How dangerous when jumping from boat to boat. So for anyone to blame the men for not having proper life vests would be moot.

I'm sure lots of videos will surface - there was a parade of motorcycles going back to the silhouette when this happened so I'm sure cameras were out.

I sure hope they do see some videos so they can figure out what happened and prevent it from happening again.

 

Prayers for their families in light of this tragic event.

 

Very sad situation. I was on Celebrity Silhouette and watched from my balcony... I could not see the boat when it capsized from my vantage point but saw the IOS passengers throw in the life preserver rings and subsequently witnessed the overturned boat and rescue efforts. Actually the crew on the IOS rescue boat were wearing life vests. Here are pictures that I took:

[montecarlo0407]

While there is a lot of theories of what happened and how all I can say is it was very sad. Very sad for the families,very sad for the crew and passengers of both ships the Independence and the Sillohette. Everyone there was heartbroken and devastated.

[alreadypacked]

I was sitting on my balcony on the Silhouette. The Independence was to leave at 5:00 pm, us at 6:00 PM. There would be no reason for the Silhouette to have the thrusters on.

 

As soon as I saw a life buoy being dropped from the Independence I got up to the rail and saw the upturned boat. The Independence DID NOT stop but continued to back away from the pier. It would seem to me they could have shut off the thruster immediately, not continue to pull away. I would assume an officer was stationed at the rear of the ship during undocking. A boat was not launched from the Independence until she was well out in the turning basin. In fact, I saw the harbor police boat and a private boat show up long before the yellow boat from the Independence was in the area. Our ship launched a lifeboat as well.

 

In my opinion, the continued use of the thruster slammed the men against the mooring platform. The divers eventually brought them up from the base of that mooring platform. When the bodies were recovered, neither had a life vest of any type on.

 

I assume St. Kitts will be adding bridges to connect to the isolated mooring platforms in the near future. As our captain later commented, even when there is a pilot on board, the captain maintains full control and authority over the ship. He would not comment if a pilot was on board the Independence.

 

It was a sad evening on our ship.

 

It seemed to me that the IOS kept backing away from the pier as well. Next thing we knew it was well away from the pier and anchored perpendicular to Silhouette. According to the time stamp on my camera, the first picture I took when I spotted the capsized boat was at 6:02pm. The first picture I have with the IOS rescue boat in it was at 6:07pm--5 minutes later.

 

Want to clarify that the time stamp on my camera was set to eastern standard time. It is not a cell phone camera which may adjust the time to local. Actual St Kitts time may have been an hour off.

Edited April 8, 2014 by alreadypacked
to add additional info regarding time stamp on my camera

[HLCwilltravel]

As our captain on the Silhouette stated the next day, 10 witnesses gave him 10 different stories.

 

He also stated that the captain is always in command regardless if a pilot is on board.

 

So, the above "Solstice" comment (which is not the ship's name) indicates how eyewitness facts are often wrong.

 

The men were recovered around 6:00 PM, the Silhouette was permitted to leave around 9:00 PM per our captain. When we left, the Independence was still there.

 

My miss on "Silhouette" versus "Solstice" was just a Solstice class error. My I witness account was accurate. I believe our ship, Independence of the Seas, left before Silhouette. When we left we were "blocking" your departure lane. You also still had the refueling barge next to you.

[Agr8RN]

While Onboard - we were advised by a staff member that not all harbors send a pilot Onboard.

 

They also stated there was not one Onboard the day of the incident in St kitts.

 

@ alreadypacked - I couldn't tell - I didn't think they all did - but I didn't have my glasses on and my video is small to see too many details on my phone (just got back so not downloaded yet)

 

I sure hope they would have them on. :)

[LMaxwell]

While legalities may still allow the Captain to maintain license and position I do not believe RCI will have interest in keeping the Captain aboard. While this may ultimately be discovered to be a tragic accident and blame not able to be directly assigned to the Captains actions they are ultimately responsible for their vessel and unlike a grounding, pier collision, or close quarter collision with another ship, my gut instinct is, legal responsibility or not, RCI won't want to continue with a Captain that has a cloud over their head from a loss of life.

 

I'm not nailing the Captain to the stake here; I think an investigation and discovery of all facts is prudent, just stating my opinion of how I believe RCI will move forward (in part) from this terrible accident.

[Folk Singer]

Google does

 

Saint Christopher Air and Sea Ports Authority

 

 

thank you.

[bokkje]

While legalities may still allow the Captain to maintain license and position I do not believe RCI will have interest in keeping the Captain aboard. While this may ultimately be discovered to be a tragic accident and blame not able to be directly assigned to the Captains actions they are ultimately responsible for their vessel and unlike a grounding, pier collision, or close quarter collision with another ship, my gut instinct is, legal responsibility or not, RCI won't want to continue with a Captain that has a cloud over their head from a loss of life.

 

I'm not nailing the Captain to the stake here; I think an investigation and discovery of all facts is prudent, just stating my opinion of how I believe RCI will move forward (in part) from this terrible accident.

 

hmmmm alot of guessing and ZERRO facts. Maby people should wait for the official reports and video to come out! There is a 50 meter securety zone when a cruise ship is leaving st. kittis, why was this vessel trying to retrive the dockworker when indi was leaving? protocall is to retrive AFTER the ship has left

[uksimonusa]

hmmmm alot of guessing and ZERRO facts. Maby people should wait for the official reports and video to come out! There is a 50 meter securety zone when a cruise ship is leaving st. kittis, why was this vessel trying to retrive the dockworker when indi was leaving? protocall is to retrive AFTER the ship has left

The boat had to be close to ID to remove the docking lines, it was not trying to retrieve a dock worker, it was transporting the dock worker to and from the Dolphin to remove the lines

[bokkje]

I was on IOS about 50ft forward of the accident on deck 4. Some clarifications/notes/thoughts -

 

The azipods started up before the mooring lines were even out of the water, which I though was odd, but didn't think about the risk to the boat at that time. I looked away, and looked back to see the boat right after it flipped, and no sign of the two crewmen. The azipods were shut down pretty quickly, given that the word would have had to pass from the crew at the rear of the IOS, to the bridge, and then to the controls (but it was an interminably long time when you're sitting there watching it). Those props are too big to stop quickly, and the water kept moving for quite a while after they stopped.

 

With life jackets on, I think they could have held their breath and come up on the other side of Silhouette in about 20 seconds (remember that the aft end of the ship doesn't have much of a draft). But if the turbulence caused you to get knocked unconscious...

 

On the last night of the cruise at the goodbye show, they said that the captain was going on vacation the next day. I read that a bit differently from what they said. As an airline captain, I figured he's done as a captain for RCCL (similar to Southwest at LGA, with no loss of life in that case). It's too much liability for the cruise line to keep him, on the off-chance that something else happened with him down the road, whether or not he was at all to blame in the incident. Far better to pay him to retire.

 

 

His vacation was planned the next day, no pay off or retirement. The full story will come out shortly, NO fault at indi, captain or crew

[LMaxwell]

hmmmm alot of guessing and ZERRO facts. Maby people should wait for the official reports and video to come out! There is a 50 meter securety zone when a cruise ship is leaving st. kittis, why was this vessel trying to retrive the dockworker when indi was leaving? protocall is to retrive AFTER the ship has left

 

 

I am not sure why you quoted me actually. The second part of my statement basically is in agreement with you, a full investigation needs to take place.

 

The first part of my statement is what I think will be the outcome of the Captain regardless of the assignment of blame or responsibility for the accident.

 

Clear now?

[bokkje]

The boat had to be close to ID to remove the docking lines, it was not trying to retrieve a dock worker, it was transporting the dock worker to and from the Dolphin to remove the lines

 

I know, the boat driver should not have retrived the dockworker before after indi had left. there is a 50 meter securety zone

[uksimonusa]

I know, the boat driver should not have retrived the dockworker before after indi had left. there is a 50 meter securety zone

 

Have you ever watched them untie the lines from Dolphins, at least in the Caribbean Ports that I have been to, the small boat pulls up to the dolphin, a worker releases the line and then gets straight back into the boat, the ship is now untied and the boat is within 50M:confused: