Tipping in Ultimate Dining ?/ UDP vs. Complementary restaurant

[Manateemike]

Opinion aside; the wait staff in specialty restaurants is compensated for services as part of the money you have already paid. Once you start trying to dissect it or put meanings towards certain words you end up with a big fight on this forum, so let's just leave it at that.

 

Opinion included; if you feel a server has truly gone above and beyond to provide exceptional service, of course you have the opportunity to leave additional gratuity to whatever level you feel is warranted.

 

Is UDP worth it? Well...food is included in your cruise fare already. For a 7 day cruise the UDP charge works out to around or a little below $20pp. Are you going to spend that much in specialty dining? If you are going to do specialty dining 0 - 4 times per cruise, probably not worth getting the package and just pay as you go. If you already have predetermined you will eat in specialty 6 or 7 nights and / or the cost exceeds the price of the package, it may be worth purchasing.

 

One thing I have a question; can UDP be purchased onboard so as to pay for it using Onboard Credits?

 

Please, On all these messages, can someone clarify for me what is " Above and beyond service", as to the service we should expect in a UDP we paid for? What are some looking for other than good service and a smile! :confused:

[Manateemike]

Tip versus service charge

 

Beginning January 1, 2014, the IRS is requiring employers to classify automatic gratuities as service charges. Service charges distributed to employees are treated as regular wages, subject to normal payroll tax withholding rules. This is a change that will mean added costs and paperwork for restaurants, upfront withholding of federal taxes, and delayed time in receiving the take home pay for waiters and waitresses.

The IRS defines a tip as having the following characteristics:

 

 

 

 

 

The IRS defines a tip as having the following characteristics:

1. The payment must be made free from compulsion (the customer is not required to pay a tip but voluntarily does so);
   
2. The customer must have the unrestricted right to determine the amount (the restaurant cannot automatically calculate the gratuity);
   
3. The payment should not be the subject of negotiations or dictated by employer policy (the restaurant does not negotiate with the customer for a gratuity amount); and
   
4. Generally, the customer has the right to determine who receives the payment (as opposed to the employer.)
   

If the above criteria are not met, the amount is considered a service charge and treated for all tax purposes as regular wages. For example, if a restaurant automatically applies an 18 percent gratuity on checks for parties of six or more, the automatic gratuity is considered a service charge instead of a tip. If the customer decides to give an additional tip amount (in excess of the automatic 18 percent), that extra amount is considered a tip if the other criteria were also met. As a result, some restaurants may consider adding suggested tip amounts regardless of the party size, allowing customers to choose to tip more or less, in order to ensure that the amount will not be classified as a service charge.

 

If the automatic gratuity is considered to be a service charge rather than a tip, under federal law, service charges belong to the restaurant and become a part of the restaurant’s gross receipts and may be retained or distributed as management sees fit. Service charges distributed to employees are treated as wages and can be used to assist employers in meeting their requirement to pay employees minimum wage. Unfortunately, since automatic gratuity is a service charge and not considered a tip, employers cannot use those amounts when calculating the Credit for Employer Social Security and Medicare Taxes Paid on Certain Employee Tips, otherwise known as the tip credit, even if management chooses to distribute the amount to the employees.

__________________

 

 

TIPS, TIPS, they are still plain and simple TIPS!

 

This is still relavant.

 

If you purchase the UDP, you still paid the DSC too. So the waiters will get their due money, if you want to leave extra you may too.

 

By the way, I saw a travel agency ad advertising they will pre pay your gratuities on a Getaway cruise. Now that is misleading to a prospective cruiser. They can only prepay the DSC not any gratuities or tips. Ignorant travel agency!

 

Hey, Someone needs to take a cold shower and sip some wine! In the scheme of things, who cares?? Relax!!

[Karysa]

Please, On all these messages, can someone clarify for me what is " Above and beyond service", as to the service we should expect in a UDP we paid for? What are some looking for other than good service and a smile! :confused:

 

Excellent service includes being greeted timely at the door, offering a location and being flexible if you don't find it suitable, approaching the table and waiting for a lull in the conversation to start speaking, coming to ask during each part of the meal if the offering is to your liking, pacing the meal according to your rhythm, filling your water glass/wine glass prior to it being empty, serving all people at the table at the same time and being friendly and approachable but know when to leave you alone as well. Another thing that I like is for the waiter to wait until we ask for the check before bringing it. That kind of service is worthy of a tip on top of the DSC to me.

[Manateemike]

Excellent service includes being greeted timely at the door, offering a location and being flexible if you don't find it suitable, approaching the table and waiting for a lull in the conversation to start speaking, coming to ask during each part of the meal if the offering is to your liking, pacing the meal according to your rhythm, filling your water glass/wine glass prior to it being empty, serving all people at the table at the same time and being friendly and approachable but know when to leave you alone as well. Another thing that I like is for the waiter to wait until we ask for the check before bringing it. That kind of service is worthy of a tip on top of the DSC to me.

 

Wow! Your response is Spot On IMO! You must have been a training person in a restaurant environment! How cool! I'll look for that on my cruise in a week 'cause I did buy the UDP on NCL Dawn, and can I hold you to it!? Nice! Thanks';) I'll be on my own, Solo, so that will be different as far as serving people at the the table at the same time! But I'm not looking for my "leaving alone" time too much!

Edited April 14, 2014 by Manateemike

[NH Cruisers]

Not to get off the track here, but considering the signature that is at the bottom of each and every single post I've ever made here, WHY on earth would you ask that question? :confused:

Because maybe you don't put all your cruises in there.

[Karysa]

Wow! Your response is Spot On IMO! You must have been a training person in a restaurant environment! How cool! I'll look for that on my cruise in a week 'cause I did buy the UDP on NCL Dawn, and can I hold you to it!? Nice! Thanks';) I'll be on my own, Solo, so that will be different as far as serving people at the the table at the same time! But I'm not looking for my "leaving alone" time too much!

 

No I have never even worked in a restaurant. I am however spoiled.:o:D

[njhorseman]

Tip versus service charge

 

 

The IRS defines a tip as having the following characteristics

 

 

IRS regulations are irrelevant. The IRS has no jurisdiction over foreign-flagged cruise ships. The only US-flagged sea-going cruise ship sailing is the Pride of America.

 

 

TIPS, TIPS, they are still plain and simple TIPS!

 

Nope...NCL says it's a service charge, and goes to the trouble of separately defining tips. You have no control over how the service charge is distributed and all of it doesn't go to into crew paychecks, unlike tips, which you can hand directly to the person you're tipping.

 

 

My response is in red.

Edited April 14, 2014 by njhorseman

[Love my butler]

I guess you believe that NCL is being dishonest or is simply not informed about its own procedures because NCL says the service charge and tipping are two entirely different things.

 

You bet I think NCL is being dishonest. They are simply playing word games to enable them to get passengers to pay the crew salary.

 

You would too if you were around in 2000 when NCL rolled out the DSC and CLEARLY explained it was the tip.

[Love my butler]

The DAILY Service Charge is just that, a service charge. Seems like it's you who wants to be foot loose and fancy free with word usage to justify your beliefs. :rolleyes:

 

 

NCL calls it a DISCRETIONARY service charge. I prefer their word over the made up 'daily' part.

 

If you are not aware of that you are simply misinformed.

[SeaShark]

Because maybe you don't put all your cruises in there.

 

Maybe not...however, there are enough in there to clearly answer your question, so I'd still like to ask why on earth you would even have to ask in the first place???

[triptolemus]

Maybe not...however, there are enough in there to clearly answer your question, so I'd still like to ask why on earth you would even have to ask in the first place???

 

Remember that a lot of folks turn off signatures. Way too much nonsense in the majority of them.

[SeaShark]

Remember that a lot of folks turn off signatures. Way too much nonsense in the majority of them.

 

True...very true. You make an excellent point. But when a person chooses to ignore information that is out there in plain sight for them to see, whose fault is it that they don't know?

[SeaShark]

You bet I think NCL is being dishonest. They are simply playing word games to enable them to get passengers to pay the crew salary.

 

You would too if you were around in 2000 when NCL rolled out the DSC and CLEARLY explained it was the tip.

 

You make an interesting argument.

 

You claim that NCL is "simply playing word games to enable them to get passegers to pay the crew salary". What is the alternative? If NCL included the cost of the DSC in the fare, who would be paying the crew salary then?

 

 

Nice that you can claim that NCL rolled out the DSC in 2000 and CLEARY explained that it was the tip....with nothing to support that claim. I don't believe that what you said is true...not for a minute.

 

However...The Internet Archive (http://archive.org/web/) has copies on file on web pages from back then...how about you get us a copy of the page that supports your "tip" claim and prove me wrong? :rolleyes:

[Out to sea!]

NCL calls it a DISCRETIONARY service charge. I prefer their word over the made up 'daily' part.

 

If you are not aware of that you are simply misinformed.

 

Nope, not informed. I just don't attempt to twist words as you do to justify my actions.

 

And to be correct, it's not even the DSC anymore, it's the SC (Service Charge). The link below takes you to the FAQ direct from the NCL website. You'll notice no "D" anywhere before the SC.

 

http://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

Edited April 15, 2014 by Out to sea!

[njhorseman]

You bet I think NCL is being dishonest. They are simply playing word games to enable them to get passengers to pay the crew salary.

 

You would too if you were around in 2000 when NCL rolled out the DSC and CLEARLY explained it was the tip.

 

That's about the funniest thing you've ever written...and you've kept me laughing for a long, long time reading your twisted fiction.

 

Customers (in this case NCL's passengers) always pay employee salaries. That expense is always built into the price of the goods or services the customer is buying. And it doesn't matter if the salary is hidden in the base fare, comes from a separately billed service charge, or is paid via totally voluntary tipping. You're paying it one way or the other.

Edited April 15, 2014 by njhorseman

[j-9]

You make an interesting argument.

 

You claim that NCL is "simply playing word games to enable them to get passegers to pay the crew salary". What is the alternative? If NCL included the cost of the DSC in the fare, who would be paying the crew salary then?

 

 

Nice that you can claim that NCL rolled out the DSC in 2000 and CLEARY explained that it was the tip....with nothing to support that claim. I don't believe that what you said is true...not for a minute.

 

However...The Internet Archive (http://archive.org/web/) has copies on file on web pages from back then...how about you get us a copy of the page that supports your "tip" claim and prove me wrong? :rolleyes:

 

Wow, what a great site. And I found it! Launch of freestyle dec 8 2000

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20001208003200/http://www.ncl.com/freestyle_features2.htm

 

Freestyle Gratuities

No more last minute scrambling to distribute tips before you disembark. For your convenience, the suggested gratuities are automatically applied to your account. If you decide to tip more or less than the suggested guidelines, just contact the Credit Desk with any questions. All good things must come to an end, but with Freestyle Cruising you can enjoy a morning of leisure on the last day of your cruise.

[triptolemus]

Cue the "Freestyle Gratuities isn't the same as Discretionary Service Charge" rebuttal in 3....2....1....

[j-9]

By Feb 2002, the transition to service charge is stronger. This page was in effect until Sept 2006.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020804164333/http://www.ncl.com/freestyle/fs_p_gratuities.htm

 

"On traditional cruises, guests waited until the last night to tip room stewards and restaurant servers. You had to get bills in the proper denominations, stuff them in envelopes, then hand them to each individual. With Freestyle Cruising you can enjoy your last night at sea, just take advantage of our No-worries gratuities service, automatic and easy, but still optional and your choice.

Service charge is automatically applied to your shipboard account.

$10 per guest per day, for guests age 13 and above

$5 per day for children age 3-12 (no charge for children under the age of three).

All service personnel on board receive gratuities from this service charge

If you wish to tip more or less than the suggested guidelines, contact the Front Desk to make any adjustments you think appropriate."

 

At some point after sept 2006, the terminology changed to match the current "no need to tip" and the split to a Gratuity FAQ and a Service Charge FAQ.

Edited April 15, 2014 by j-9
Added quotes

[Love my butler]

That's about the funniest thing you've ever written...and you've kept me laughing for a long, long time reading your twisted fiction.

 

Customers (in this case NCL's passengers) always pay employee salaries. That expense is always built into the price of the goods or services the customer is buying. And it doesn't matter if the salary is hidden in the base fare, comes from a separately billed service charge, or is paid via totally voluntary tipping. You're paying it one way or the other.

 

Haha, thanks for the lecture. It does matter to me if it's 'hidden' anywhere. Companies hide things from customers for a reason.....

 

P.S. You continue to read my twisted fiction for a reason. I love my fans :)

[Love my butler]

Wow, what a great site. And I found it! Launch of freestyle dec 8 2000

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20001208003200/http://www.ncl.com/freestyle_features2.htm

 

Freestyle Gratuities

No more last minute scrambling to distribute tips before you disembark. For your convenience, the suggested gratuities are automatically applied to your account. If you decide to tip more or less than the suggested guidelines, just contact the Credit Desk with any questions. All good things must come to an end, but with Freestyle Cruising you can enjoy a morning of leisure on the last day of your cruise.

 

Note to seashark, I block your drivel so I don't answer your posts unless I happen to read them in another quoted post. In this case it looks like egg is on your face, yet again.

 

When will you ever stop questioning my knowledge and wisdom?

 

P.S. Thanks j-9, good info.

[LMaxwell]

It is becoming apparent to me that NCL uses vague or potentially misleading terminology in their verbage regarding DSC / Gratuities / Tipping. Why else the CONSTANT arguments on this forum? Other forums have misunderstandings and some debate, but on this forum it's like a constant war.

 

It seems to me that DSC covers all service personnel around the ship; free venues and specialty venues. I would consider DSC the "base" for knowing that I have covered all persons in service roles onboard.

[Love my butler]

Nope, not informed. I just don't attempt to twist words as you do to justify my actions.

 

And to be correct, it's not even the DSC anymore, it's the SC (Service Charge). The link below takes you to the FAQ direct from the NCL website. You'll notice no "D" anywhere before the SC.

 

http://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge

 

Correct, you are not informed. Take a cruise and you will notice on several notices, freestyle dailys etc NCL states 'discretionary service charge'. If you want to debate the actual title NCL uses, pass. NCL refers to it, quite often, as the discretionary service charge. That is good enough for me and anyone with any common sense.

[Love my butler]

It is becoming apparent to me that NCL uses vague or potentially misleading terminology in their verbage regarding DSC / Gratuities / Tipping.

 

I agree. NCL does indeed use deception regarding the DSC and other things. The cheerleaders will tell you lots of other companies do it too, so that makes it alright. Two wrongs do indeed make a right.......

[LMaxwell]

I agree. NCL does indeed use deception regarding the DSC and other things. The cheerleaders will tell you lots of other companies do it too, so that makes it alright. Two wrongs do indeed make a right.......

 

Other companies call it Automatic Gratuity. That is far less ambiguous. I also have seen reference, for years, to the D being discretionary and while one poster mentioned discretionary refers to the cruise lines discretion on how to distribute the money (fully possible, but not what I believe is in the spirit or intention of NCL's words) I believe it is discretionary based on the customers perceptions and value systems.

 

If one particular area provides inadequate service and after given an opportunity to improve, do not; I have no moral qualms over reducing a suggested gratuity amount at my discretion. The fact that NCL uses the reduction of a tip designed to punish one area and uses it punitively against ALL service personnel to me is a form of Guest - Tip Shaming. It's not right here. It's not right when other cruise lines do it.

 

If my room steward provides fantastic ninja like service with a smile and is exceptional, but my dining room staff is dreadful and the head waiter totally ineffective at improving matters, if I choose to reduce DSC why should my cabin steward be harmed for that choice? They shouldn't. Instead there is an unspoken "shaming" going on so that I don't by chance screw the room steward wile voting my displeasure with my wallet towards poor dining experiences not up to standard. It's a very flawed system and it's a real shame that the best crew suffers because of the worst crew, but in the end if there is a problem NCL provides a mechanism to "do something about it" because if they didn't then the DSC would have to be disclosed as part of the cruise fare and, frankly, I think if employees knew a set amount was "in the bag" service would not often be stellar, but "just good enough".

[Love my butler]

Other companies call it Automatic Gratuity. That is far less ambiguous. I also have seen reference, for years, to the D being discretionary and while one poster mentioned discretionary refers to the cruise lines discretion on how to distribute the money (fully possible, but not what I believe is in the spirit or intention of NCL's words) I believe it is discretionary based on the customers perceptions and value systems.

 

If one particular area provides inadequate service and after given an opportunity to improve, do not; I have no moral qualms over reducing a suggested gratuity amount at my discretion. The fact that NCL uses the reduction of a tip designed to punish one area and uses it punitively against ALL service personnel to me is a form of Guest - Tip Shaming. It's not right here. It's not right when other cruise lines do it.

 

If my room steward provides fantastic ninja like service with a smile and is exceptional, but my dining room staff is dreadful and the head waiter totally ineffective at improving matters, if I choose to reduce DSC why should my cabin steward be harmed for that choice? They shouldn't. Instead there is an unspoken "shaming" going on so that I don't by chance screw the room steward wile voting my displeasure with my wallet towards poor dining experiences not up to standard. It's a very flawed system and it's a real shame that the best crew suffers because of the worst crew, but in the end if there is a problem NCL provides a mechanism to "do something about it" because if they didn't then the DSC would have to be disclosed as part of the cruise fare and, frankly, I think if employees knew a set amount was "in the bag" service would not often be stellar, but "just good enough".

 

NCL does provide a way to avoid all that. Adjust the DSC to a level you choose then cash tip those that truly shine. You know, the way it used to be.