Haven Prices Are Getting Out Of Hand

[FireEater]

I knew when I was writing that humorous anecdote someone would take it too seriously. The calculator comparison is interesting, but not entirely relevant. Certainly outsourcing, competition, and economies of scale have worked to keep the costs of both cruises and calculators on a downward trend over time, but there are significant differences. Some of the largest factors that have pushed cruise pricing down significantly, starting in the late-80’s and into the 90’s, were massive increases in both the size of individual ships and overall fleets along with the reformulation of pricing structures and revenue management prompted by such expansion. Additionally, while parts and manufacturing expenses for consumer electronics have decreased substantially, the cost of building cruise ships has continued to rise along with inflation and the increasing size of the latest newbuilds despite the development of many new timesaving techniques. At least that’s my understanding of the pricing situation from being a casual observer on the sidelines. I welcome anyone with more advanced knowledge to correct me if I’m wrong.

 

 

 

Indeed, cruise pricing throughout most of the industry has been on the rise in the past few years, but due to the deep initial reductions brought about during the recession (and to a lesser extend Concordia), it wasn’t until recently that it’s reached pre-2008 levels. Although growth has continued throughout the recession with the lower rates and the increase in capacity with new ships coming online, profit margins are incredibly low. Now that most lines are out of the hole, they’re eager to push for even more fare increases to help increase those margins.

 

Uhhh

[grandpa99]

In my 2012 PC cruise the Captain announced that it cost $525k as fees for the crossing and the cost was going up each year.

 

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[barnacle_boy]

Yup, you're right, someone took it too seriously........

 

 

You're probably right. I should have recognized your invalid comparison as an attempt at humor and left it at that. I saw it as an illogical criticism that I needed to rectify. Anyway, I was also curious to see what other CC members would have to say about long and short term trends in cruise pricing in relation to changes in the industry. I wanted to see if we could go from debating whether prices are too high to debating why prices are increasing. It appears to be breezing over peoples' heads, so I guess it was a bust :(

 

 

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[dexddd]

That is just crazy. I just priced a week long vacation at the Four Seasons Resort in Bora Bora in a waterfront bungalow. THAT is worth the $1,000 a night they are charging for 3 people. Not a suite on NCL :rolleyes: Crazy!

 

If you are looking to go to that area, have you looked at PG Cruises?

 

They go to that area every week and know it well. Their fares include airfare from LAX, all grats, plus most drinks except high end. Plus you get to go to two small, private islands that are the best.

[SissasMomE]

If you are looking to go to that area, have you looked at PG Cruises?

 

They go to that area every week and know it well. Their fares include airfare from LAX, all grats, plus most drinks except high end. Plus you get to go to two small, private islands that are the best.

 

No, I haven't, but I will check it out. Thank you!!

[swedish weave]

I knew when I was writing that humorous anecdote someone would take it too seriously. The calculator comparison is interesting, but not entirely relevant. Certainly outsourcing, competition, and economies of scale have worked to keep the costs of both cruises and calculators on a downward trend over time, but there are significant differences. Some of the largest factors that have pushed cruise pricing down significantly, starting in the late-80’s and into the 90’s, were massive increases in both the size of individual ships and overall fleets along with the reformulation of pricing structures and revenue management prompted by such expansion. Additionally, while parts and manufacturing expenses for consumer electronics have decreased substantially, the cost of building cruise ships has continued to rise along with inflation and the increasing size of the latest newbuilds despite the development of many new timesaving techniques. At least that’s my understanding of the pricing situation from being a casual observer on the sidelines. I welcome anyone with more advanced knowledge to correct me if I’m wrong.

 

 

 

Indeed, cruise pricing throughout most of the industry has been on the rise in the past few years, but due to the deep initial reductions brought about during the recession (and to a lesser extend Concordia), it wasn’t until recently that it’s reached pre-2008 levels. Although growth has continued throughout the recession with the lower rates and the increase in capacity with new ships coming online, profit margins are incredibly low. Now that most lines are out of the hole, they’re eager to push for even more fare increases to help increase those margins.

 

Cruise pricing was so low that the cruise lines had to depend on on-board sales to make a profit. I heard an interview with Sheehan a few months ago and he said he wished the other lines would stop slashing prices so they could all make some money. Maybe they listened to him.

 

The debt/equity ratio of NCL and RCCL are both in the 90 range while Carnival is in the low 30 range. That means Carnival would be likely to survive a major turndown in business while the other two may get into trouble.

[barnacle_boy]

Although it’s typical for oligopolies to engage in price wars, sometimes with the intention of running a competitor out of business, I really don’t think that’s what has been going on in the past few years. Carnival struggled more than others due to their high profile accidents (Concordia and Triumph), which caused them to lower prices to fill their ships. RCI and NCL had to respond with similar cuts to stay competitive. Although demand has increased, lines are still relying on low prices to fill their ships. This dynamic appears to be the most vicious in the Caribbean, where everyone has rock-bottom prices to compete with each other and fill their ships, but, as Sheehan alluded to, none are particularly happy with the results.

 

A lot of analysts seem concerned that passengers will become accustomed to the lower prices. Considering how many people here on CC bitterly complain about how pricing is starting to return to normal after years of being unsustainably low, I’d say that there’s some truth to those fears! :p

 

 

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[Heytoots]

The price you pay for haven access is way too much. The haven is nice but hardly worth what NCL charges. It only takes a couple of unruly kids in the haven to make the peace and quiet disappear for the week.

 

I agree..........we took a cruise in the Haven in January, and there were lots of unruly kids, and uncaring parents. Was impossible to sit in the courtyard and enjoy yourself. Haven again? NEVER.......will go back to aft PH's.

[medsed]

If the Haven was adults only I would consider spending the money, to me the risk of unsupervised children is just not worth the bump up in price. We are booked in a forward penthouse on the gem in October. It is not part of the haven..we get plenty of perks, have a nice sized balcony, a nice sized suite, and know we will get great service. I am not sure how the haven would improve on this for us..especially given that the four couples I know who booked haven suites said never again all because of children who were left to their own devices and basically ruined the experience for others.

[SissasMomE]

I agree..........we took a cruise in the Haven in January, and there were lots of unruly kids, and uncaring parents. Was impossible to sit in the courtyard and enjoy yourself. Haven again? NEVER.......will go back to aft PH's.

 

That is so sad to hear. Unfortunately, it's been reported way too many times to ignore now. :(

 

On another note, Royal Caribbean is running (or were, I don't know if they still are) a buy one get on half off. Usually their grand suites and above are expensive, but they are very doable now, very nice, and cheaper than some NCL sailings. It is my understanding that they come with reserved pool seating (at least that is what the web site says). Anyway, just an FYI for anyone who is interested.

[TruckerDave]

You're probably right. I should have recognized your invalid comparison as an attempt at humor and left it at that. I saw it as an illogical criticism that I needed to rectify. Anyway, I was also curious to see what other CC members would have to say about long and short term trends in cruise pricing in relation to changes in the industry. I wanted to see if we could go from debating whether prices are too high to debating why prices are increasing. It appears to be breezing over peoples' heads, so I guess it was a bust :(

 

 

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You didn't get the email? Humor is not allowed on here anymore. People here are wound so tight and take things so serious that any attempt at humor will not be tolerated and may result in severe penalties. :D

[TruckerDave]

As long people keep paying it NCL will keep charging it.

 

This sums it up perfectly.

[barnacle_boy]

On another note, Royal Caribbean is running (or were, I don't know if they still are) a buy one get on half off. Usually their grand suites and above are expensive, but they are very doable now, very nice, and cheaper than some NCL sailings. It is my understanding that they come with reserved pool seating (at least that is what the web site says). Anyway, just an FYI for anyone who is interested.

 

 

The RCI suite life is pretty inferior to NCL in many respects. On Oasis the premium Gold Card seating for suite guests is a tiny sundeck at the base of the forward mast. Not only is it far from the main pools, it's a pretty empty space with a tiny bar. I really prefer the amenities offered in the Haven courtyard.

 

 

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[LadyShiva]

That is so sad to hear. Unfortunately, it's been reported way too many times to ignore now. :(

 

On another note, Royal Caribbean is running (or were, I don't know if they still are) a buy one get on half off. Usually their grand suites and above are expensive, but they are very doable now, very nice, and cheaper than some NCL sailings. It is my understanding that they come with reserved pool seating (at least that is what the web site says). Anyway, just an FYI for anyone who is interested.

 

My next booking is an RCI Grand Suite. :) The perks aren't as fabulous as the Haven, but it is an Alaskan cruise--which I don't expect to have as much time to laze about in the Haven. I had been watching NCL Jewel's H4 prices--then I'd roll my eyes and close the browser window when I saw their pricing! Instead, I'll be on Jewel of the Seas and actually GOING! Jewel of the Seas is a Radiance class, which I think will be lovely with all that time I'll be oooohing and ahhing out a window!

[SissasMomE]

My next booking is an RCI Grand Suite. :) The perks aren't as fabulous as the Haven, but it is an Alaskan cruise--which I don't expect to have as much time to laze about in the Haven. I had been watching NCL Jewel's H4 prices--then I'd roll my eyes and close the browser window when I saw their pricing! Instead, I'll be on Jewel of the Seas and actually GOING! Jewel of the Seas is a Radiance class, which I think will be lovely with all that time I'll be oooohing and ahhing out a window!

 

That's exactly what we are looking at - the Grand Suite! Please let me know how you liked it when you return!!

[dexddd]

No, I haven't, but I will check it out. Thank you!!

 

PG recently posted their youth program dates for 2016:

 

http://www.pgcruises.com/ambassadors-environment-youth-program

 

We just booked for 2016 and this will be our second time there. The program for the kids is superb.

Edited January 22, 2015 by dexddd

[Cindy]

I found this interesting reading, because I just made my first NCL booking a couple days ago, to take advantage of the 3 perk promo. I have heard great things for years about Norwegian suite perks, and decided it was time to try it for myself!:)

 

I compared the Haven suites with regular suites, and decided access to the private courtyard and the other special Haven perks weren't worth over $2,000 to me. Since the cruise I booked is 22 months away, I also didn't want to tie up $1,500 in deposit money for such a lengthy time. I almost always have 3-4 cruises booked at a time, and the deposits add up after a while!

[perkydebrajean]

We were in a Haven suite in December on the Pearl and I guess we lucked out because the courtyard was empty 75% of the time. We normally saw a family with 3 young kids eating breakfast in the courtyard but rarely any other time.

[warriorking]

The Modest Balcony cabin I wanted for Alaska went from $1900 (2015 price ) for 10 Days to over $3100 for the same cruise with the 2016 sailing , I would hate to price the Havens....

I went with a European 12Day Med cruise over Alaska and gained 2 addition days on board with the Balcony price cheaper than the current $1900 discounted 2015 asking price for Alaska....Plus I qualified for 2 of the 3 promo's NCL is offering compared to just one for Alaska...Go figure...

Edited January 22, 2015 by warriorking

[rockdoctor]

NCL appears mighty proud of their Haven suites, but come on $1,000 + a day per couple!!!!!

 

If they want to get away from the mass market and become a high end cruise line, they need to change more then just the price and their offering of the Haven.....

 

Wow, that's cheap! Princess wants $1000 a couple without the restaurant and other separate spaces. Celebrity wants $1000 with a restaurant but no separate spaces. Sounds like the Haven is a deal.

[golfingfool]

I am going on the Jewel in 23 days out of Houston in the Garden Villa for our family cruise with 7 guests in the Garden Villa. The price per guest per day is about $400. I don't consider that too bad with all the perks we will enjoy. It is a one time chance to build family memories.

[tarheelmjfan]

I agree..........we took a cruise in the Haven in January, and there were lots of unruly kids, and uncaring parents. Was impossible to sit in the courtyard and enjoy yourself. Haven again? NEVER.......will go back to aft PH's.

 

DH & I would never book Haven for this reason. The only way we'd consider it is if we were travelling with extended family that have young kids. I'm surprised NCL ever advertised Haven as serene. Common sense tells you there's a high likelihood of having a lot of kids running around, when you have so many large suites in that area. It appears to me that Haven was built with large families in mind, which sounds like the opposite of serene & relaxing to me. As golfingfool posted, it can be the cheapest way to go for families with several kids.

[garycarla]

Have you done this cruise before? I was looking at the same cruise as the OP as a present for daughter's graduation. Is it typically an older crowd?

 

 

As you may have noticed, any cruise over 7 days tends to have an older crowd and less children. When you go over 9 days, it jumps even more.

 

Why?

 

School

Work

Life

[Debde]

Wow, that's cheap! Princess wants $1000 a couple without the restaurant and other separate spaces. Celebrity wants $1000 with a restaurant but no separate spaces. Sounds like the Haven is a deal.

 

I just booked my first NCL in the Haven for my husband and I and it was less then this $1,000 per day per couple and got the 3 promo items so it was a deal!! Looking forward to this cruise!!

[Heytoots]

The price you pay for haven access is way too much. The haven is nice but hardly worth what NCL charges. It only takes a couple of unruly kids in the haven to make the peace and quiet disappear for the week.

 

Agreed...........