Reason for staffing "reductions": delays in Visa application approvals?

[InterestedBystander]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> the annual wage would be $13,200 - far short of $30,000 - $40,000... what am I missing? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>[B]Their tips.[/B]

While I was calculating tip amounts, lknick did a better job than I did and posted first, so I will make only a couple points.

The salaries made by crew members add up to KINGLY wages in their countries.

Their families live very well. The crew members make a conscious [I]and informed [/I]choice to work away from home for 6 to 10 months a year in order to make these kinds of wages.

That's why they stand in line to work on cruise ships.

[rkacruiser]

lknick--

Many thanks for the information you have provided, both about the strength of the Unions as well as the salary information.

In your opinion, is there an actual staffing reduction problem aboard the ships (or a temporary staff shortage aboard certain ships at certain times) or are the perceptions of some passengers simply incorrect?


ekerr19--

Now I understand why some people I have met on some cruises give prepaid phone cards to favorite stewards in addition to their regular gratuity. And, why the stewards so much appreciate receiving those phone cards!

Thank you for your contribution to our discussion, as well!

24 cruises: 10 Holland America, 3 Princess, 3 Pacific Far East Line, 2 Royal Viking Line, 1 each: Cunard, NCL, RCCL, Sitmar, American Hawaii, Home Lines

[lknick]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>In your opinion, is there an actual staffing reduction problem aboard the ships (or a temporary staff shortage aboard certain ships at certain times) or are the perceptions of some passengers simply incorrect? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, they are not incorrect.

I have heard stewards state that they now have 2 to 4 more cabins than previously, but I really don't put too much stock in what hotel staff tell me. However, I did note that on the Prinsendam crossing our steward was still cleaning at noon when normally they would be through by 10-11.

I don't know how to respond to dining staff. On the Prinsendam, the new system of runners and waiter had been put into place and it seemed to work well. Last fall, on the Oosterdam, it was total chaos. Fewer staff or a bad system, I don't know which. On the Zuiderdam in October, it was beyond terrible. Staff just seemed to fall over each other. But last August on the Zuiderdam, it was fantastic for our four table family group.

Now whether these observations were due to 'my luck of the draw' or a systematic failure, I do not know.

The one thing I am sure of. HAL used to be consistent from cruise to cruise. Now, it's anybody's guess.

40 cruises: mainly Cunard, Carnival, HAL, NCL, RCI, Starclipper, Seabourn. ~511 days total, ~325 on HAL

[ekerr19]

I now see why I wasn't getting the picture, I wasn't including the tips.

Thanks everyone, this helps put it in perspective.

I never thought about the pre-paid phone cards as tips. It's a nice suggestion.

Noordam 1984
Veendam 1999
Amsterdam 2000
Noordam 2001
Statendam 2001
Noordam 2002
Zuiderdam 2003
Maasdam 2004.
Noordam 2004

[lknick]

I just thought of another wage comparison which may be meaningful.

The gal who cleans my house receives $85 per cleaning. She cleans one house a day. This makes her annual salary $22,500/year assuming she works every week.

She's a blond from Tennessee, not in any way a minority.

Lets say she doubles her output to two houses...which would mean a 12 hour day...then her income would rise to $45,000 a year.

And from this she must pay taxes, FICA, buy her own insurance and cover her own transportation expenses.

Isn't she doing the same job as a cabin steward? The point is, they're both 'unskilled labor'. So you can't compare them with plumbers, auto mechanics or factory workers.

And I'll say, she's a lot cuter than most cabin stewards.

40 cruises: mainly Cunard, Carnival, HAL, NCL, RCI, Starclipper, Seabourn. ~511 days total, ~325 on HAL

[Guest]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Lets say she doubles her output to two houses...which would mean a 12 hour day...then her income would rise to $45,000 a year <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If she worked 365 days a year,(the figure you used for cruise workers) then she would make over $60,000 a year.

[lknick]

I get it.Your point is they are underpaid. And they need American representation. Now, take a look at the employment in the Seafarers Union and compare it to what it used to be.

Now deduct board room and board from your calculation of the house cleaners wages.

Then compare the crew members wage to the average workers wage in their home country.

40 cruises: mainly Cunard, Carnival, HAL, NCL, RCI, Starclipper, Seabourn. ~511 days total, ~325 on HAL

[rkacruiser]

Postings made by those who have been on HAL ships very recently have been rather positive, I think. When service is mentioned in the reviews, people seem very satisfied for the most part.

Last week's Quarterly Conference Call to investment analysts who follow Carnival Corporation revealed that CCL is doing very well, financially. The individual operating companies are doing well, also(Holland America revenue up 100% from last year). I deduce from the information I heard that cutting service staff to "reduce costs" may have happened on selected cruises when the fares were rock-bottom low. From a financial perspective, such reductions are not needed now, if in fact such reducations were made.

If peoples' perceptions that service is now at satisfactory levels, this indicates to me that there has not been a change in corporate policy to reduce service staff across the board. I submit that visa problems for Holland America's staff is the culprit when one suspects that there are not enough service personnel for a particular area aboard ship.

Perhaps we Holland America loyalists should work with our Senators and Representatives to encourage a more productive Immigration and Naturalization Service. They are probably understaffed and underfunded and cannot properly do the job they are being asked to do, in a timely manner.

(Just as an aside, the INS inspector I encountered when I arrived at Newark International Airport on April 30th was the most pleasant and welcoming immigration official I have ever met. We do have some super people working for us taxpayers.)

What do you think?

24 cruises: 10 Holland America, 3 Princess, 3 Pacific Far East Line, 2 Royal Viking Line, 1 each: Cunard, NCL, RCCL, Sitmar, American Hawaii, Home Lines

[gizmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I deduce from the information I heard that cutting service staff to "reduce costs" may have happened on selected cruises when the fares were rock-bottom low.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How did you come to this conclusion?
I don't see how they can choose selected cruises to reduce staff. Please enlighten me.

[jhannah]

I guess I read his post differently than you. What I interpreted (maybe not right, either) is that from the numbers people were throwing out for staffing levels that it could be deduced that they were cutting staff on selected sailings. The next sentence points out his opinion that financially this isn't necessary, IF in fact such reductions were made. I just read the post as an opinion that it's a Visa issue.

'Vegas Jim

[sail7seas]

Ditto Jim....that is how I interpreted the post as well.

<img src=http://domania.us/DaveEdwards/HALlogo.gif>

[rkacruiser]

I am glad to see that this thread was able to be moved from the old Boards. We have had some good discussions.

'Vegas Jim and sail7seas are correct in their thinking that it is my opinion that the basic problem is the visa approval issue.

To gizmo: I know nothing about how staffing is done or decided upon for an individual cruise. One of the posters indicated that on a Zuiderdam cruise, the crew was only at 92% capacity. I am thinking that a "you get what you pay for" mentality may have been at work in Seattle for those cruises that had very low fares. Maybe, as contracts were completed for some of the crew on those cruises, these people were not immediately replaced.

Any way, from the posts I have read from cruisers who have recently returned from their cruises, staffing conditions are "normal"; I am not reading alot of complaints.

[gizmo]

I can see your logic but only to a point. This would not work on the cruise I took and certainly not on that Rotterdam cruise out of NY that a few people from this board took. That NY cruise was by no means a budget priced cruise like a lot of the Zuiderdam cruises. Those fares were sky high.

[sail7seas]

I am eager to see what the crew level on Maasdam is for cabin stewards and dining stewards. We are so very accustomed to Maasdam and have sailed her so very many days, it will be immediately obvious to us if there are extreme changes.


We do not think our per diem on Maasdam for Canada/New England is budget by any means and if "get what you pay for" is the rationale, then Maasdam should have a full complement.

We are looking forward to returning to "My Maasdam" and hopefully will find things as wonderful as always.

[darnapar]

The "you get what you pay for" statement doesn't hold water. The prices for HAL Alaska cruises in July are currently starting at $569.00. The Zuiederdam is more than that until Aug 28. I don't think HAL is going into this with the idea that their Vista ships are "budget boats"

[Mary Ann 2]

We just got off the Zuiderdam on Saturday. I was not impressed with the dining room service. The staff ran from one table to the next and didn't have time to personalize any of the service like on past cruises. The wine steward was serving about a fourth of our floor, and after not getting our wine by the time the entree was served one night, we had to send the waiter looking for him.

We were so surprised the first day that the room steward never came by to introduce himself or see if we needed anything. Are they having to deliver the luggage themselves? We couldn't figure out where he was all day. We did finally find him the second day, and he was careful to leave ice morning and night like we asked after that. Even then it did seem like someone here mentioned that he was cleaning cabins much longer than I remember.

We definitely felt that they were overworked or short-handed. On the other hand, Nikkie in the Crow's Nest was a bright shining star like we remembered our last server in the Crow's Nest - calling us by name and welcoming us every night. That was nice.

Overall, I felt like the level of service was below HAL's standard.