Internet Speed - Any Tech Geeks able to explain why so slow?

[cle-guy]

So why can a plane flying 500 MPH across oceans have faster internet speeds than a ship traveling at 20 MPH across oceans?

 

Both use satellite right? Both satellite systems use gyro technology to ensure proper alignment with satellite right? The satellite TV on the ship is always working...

 

So why is internet so painfully slow on Celebrity ships....do any other cruise lines have decent internet connectivity?

[rockfsh]

Bandwidth. The number of users on a ship far out number those on a plane.

[cle-guy]

so why not add extra bandwidth, another dish or 2 or something...would that improve things?

[need2bespoiled]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe except for United, planes are using Satelite networks that are in a fixed position moving with the earth over North America. United is using different system that will allow trans ocean flights to have internet but taking them longer to roll out.

 

Ships are using high orbiting satellites that have signals that take longer to come and go and are shared by 2000+ guests and staff while it's only being shared by 150+ on an airplane. They have been testing lower orbiting satellites on Allure and Oasis with apparently better results but I think they have some of the same problems as some airplane systems in that they are only good for ships in North America. Not sure what will happen on the TAs and European cruises on those ships maybe go back to the old system or if the system they're using will work anywhere.

 

Happy sailing.

Jenna

[rockfsh]

Read this article. At sea bandwidth is hundred times more expensive than land based.

 

http://www.mtnsat.com/mtn-news/signal-sea

[Andy]

Read this article. At sea bandwidth is hundred times more expensive than land based.

 

http://www.mtnsat.com/mtn-news/signal-sea

 

Hi Rockfish,

 

Thanks for the article link. FWIW, there's a next generation of advanced & faster technology available - but its *very* expensive. RCCL is just starting to implement the latest technology on the Oasis Class ships.

 

We can only hope a similar upgrade is on Celebrity's radar, but with the massive upgrade costs involved, I fear we'll have at least another year or two, for it to happen onboard Celebrity ships.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Host Andy

[Cruising89143]

High speed internet is just now making it's way to cruise ships.

 

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-06-24/business/fl-oasis-high-speed-internet-20120624_1_oasis-passengers-internet-service-internet-connection

[Algebralovr]

It also has to do with what band is available to passengers. They have K band, C band, etc, but if I remember correctly, the top is kept for ship needs, and then what is left is made available to passengers. The ship has to keep in touch with the computers at "home" so that you get your OBC, the casino works correctly, the future cruise staff can make reservations in real time, credit cards authorized, vendors updated with numbers, etc.

 

In the Med last month, I often got better email access by turning on my T-Mobile phone as soon as we seemed to be in range rather than depending on ship Internet, the ship Internet was often just pitiful.

[Keith1010]

Satellite is not a good medium. Fiber is best. That is the biggest single issue. On top of this there is a limited amount of bandwidth.

 

Keith

[rockfsh]

Satellite is not a good medium. Fiber is best. That is the biggest single issue. On top of this there is a limited amount of bandwidth.

 

Keith

 

Stringing fiber cable to the ships is a bear tho.

[Andy]

Stringing fiber cable to the ships is a bear tho.

 

LOL. Well it's no different than the verrrrrrrrry long extension cord they use to power the ships. I picked one up at Costco the other day. It was $12,000... but I thought it was a pretty good deal :)

Edited July 5, 2014 by Host Andy

[Keith1010]

Yes, you can't string the fiber.

 

My background was in this area.

 

For those of you who remember how it was to make international calls before undersea fiber cable might remember delays on your calls. Satellite is just not optimal for this but this is the only way to provide internet.

 

In time you will see some advancement in terms of equipment and technology to support improvements but it's not there today.

 

Keith

[cle-guy]

Of course Fibre is best..... but airplanes fly without it and get better speeds than ships do.

 

But as to fibre, why don't ships grab land service while in port at least. Seems like it would be a great amenity to offer, like getting shore power and water on a typical personal watercraft/boat at the marina, string an ethernet cable on and link in...? Have he ship turn off the satellite version (and therefore not incur costs for a period of time) and turn on the port version, even if they have to figure out a billing arrangement with the port companies (offset by the not paying for the turned off satellite version).

 

I noticed a shoreside ethernet cabling and network hub when docking in Southampton from a TA, assumed it was more for the crew and operations, not passengers though.

 

I assume the large ships don't use any "shore power" or connections due to the amount of power they need,s so just use their own onboard generators all the time, right?

Edited July 5, 2014 by cle-guy

[Keith1010]

Airplanes do not have the demand that the ships do and even on airplanes the internet freezes.

 

For those ships sailing the same route on a weekly basis, the could negotiate agreements with the ports to get internet with the ports providing the capacity and wi fi and it could be a win win for both cruise lines and ports in terms of revenue.

 

Keith

[rockfsh]

LOL. Well it's no different than the verrrrrrrrry long extension cord they use to power the ships. I picked one up at Costco the other day. It was $12,000... but I thought it was a pretty good deal :)

 

Extension cord? I thought they used the solar panels on the ship. :)

[cle-guy]

Airplanes do not have the demand that the ships do and even on airplanes the internet freezes.

 

For those ships sailing the same route on a weekly basis, the could negotiate agreements with the ports to get internet with the ports providing the capacity and wi fi and it could be a win win for both cruise lines and ports in terms of revenue.

 

Keith

 

I was thinking Bermuda specifically actually,. They have wi-fi in port at the piers for $14.95 for 3 days, but it's not reliable if you are inside the ship or on the side not facing the pier. So the service is there, just need a hard connection to the ship an its services, even for $14.95 paid direct to the pier authority I'd be all about it.

[Keith1010]

I think Bermuda and several of the other islands would be a great idea.

 

Keith

[C 2 C]

My Yahoo message just stated that someone cut an undersea cable and that mail might be slower than normal.

 

Perhaps there's a loose connection for ships in the area... ;)

[Keith1010]

Interesting. Cuts do happen but the good news on newer systems there is a lot of redundancy built into them.

 

Keith

[wumaj]

It also has to do with what band is available to passengers. They have K band, C band, etc, but if I remember correctly, the top is kept for ship needs, and then what is left is made available to passengers. The ship has to keep in touch with the computers at "home" so that you get your OBC, the casino works correctly, the future cruise staff can make reservations in real time, credit cards authorized, vendors updated with numbers, etc.

 

In the Med last month, I often got better email access by turning on my T-Mobile phone as soon as we seemed to be in range rather than depending on ship Internet, the ship Internet was often just pitiful.

 

Bandwidth is important but the number of simultaneous users accessing the bandwidth available is even more the issue According to the article, cruise lines typically buy 4 megabits (the article said 4 megabytes but speed is usually quoted in bits per second not bytes (a byte is 8 bits)) and if there is only one user then everything will feel fine(its what I have at home) but if there are 100 simultaneous users then the bandwidth is shared among them and so they will each receive (rough numbers) about 40 kilobits per second which is high dial up speed. And now if there are 200 simultaneous users we are down to 20 kilobits/sec and that is very slow indeed.

[Keith1010]

Also remember that bandwidth is also needed for the ship and for all of its back office systems.

 

Keith

[Capt_BJ]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe except for United, planes are using Satelite networks that are in a fixed position moving with the earth over North America.

 

This is impossible due to the laws of physics.

 

OP asked for technical - here's some technical.

 

What you are describing is a geostationary satellite and this is possible only at the equator and at an altitude of 22,236 miles up. Only here is the period of the orbit required to keep the satellite UP {versus the force of gravity}, EQUAL to the rotation of the earth, thereby giving the illusion of being stationary. With the satellite stationary, a special type of antenna can be connected to gyroscopes and kept pointing at the 'unmoving' spot in the sky. That's what in those plastic domes... Since an orbit must always lie in a plane that passes thru the center of the earth, only an orbit about the equator, in the same direction as the earth's rotation, can appear stationary. An orbit over the north pole for example will also go over the south pole and can be at 'any' height so long as the speed is enough to keep the bird UP ... but it can NOT appear to be stationary over the north pole. Laws of physics .

 

If you think about it ... this places a finite limit on the number of 'stationary' satellites possible . . .

 

http://www.ehow.com/about_4676131_what-geosynchronous-satellite.html

 

INMARSAT, the International Maritime Satellite company was created in 1979 as a not for profit corporation under the sponsorship of the IMO - the maritime side of the United Nations, for the purpose of establishing reliable satellite communications for the maritime community. In 1999, having accomplished the original goal via a network of geostationary satellites to cover the oceans, the company went private. Today INMARSAT and similar companies provide world wide communications services by satellite.

 

For OP's question the 'easy' thing for a cruise line to do is obviously just launch their own satellite . . . . except if they operate in more than one ocean they need 3 or 4 . . . so they need satellites, successful rocket launches and permission to put their objects in that little band above the equator. The 'first' INMARSAT system used 4. By the 90's if you cruised you could dial home from your cabin on some ships. It typically cost $25 a minute.

 

Since cruiselines typically can't afford their own satellites they must compete for satellite time with all the other potential users out there. This remains a VERY SCARCE commodity . . . I was involved in buying such services for a government agency ... yes, even the US with all our military satellites does not have enough bandwidth so buys extra on the open market . .

[travelpeon]

The short answer to this is - while the user might perceive "the internet access" as one generalized endpoint, it gets delivered in a lot of different ways.

 

When I go to the iLounge to buy a package, I ask the following to adjust for the number of minutes I purchase:

• Passenger Load
  
• Expected Cloud Coverage
  
• How much bandwidth did they purchase for this trip
  
• Any expected offline or low coverage zones (including satellite system handovers for TAs)
  

 

If you are nice and ask, they will also tell you when the ship's network is usually least overloaded between crew and passenger usage. *hint - you may need to adjust when you hop online*

 

For AVGeeks, here's who I follow for the latest tech on in-flight wifi.

http://blog.wandr.me/tag/in-flight-internet/

 

Internet to Islands delivery mechanism can also differ from what you get at home especially in USA where most web companies have servers, massive networks, DNS, and internet exchange points. Here's a fun submarine cable map which helps illustrate how data can get routed between oceans. Bermuda actually has a few links to the East Coast. If their internet is poor, I would guess their delivery infrastructure isn't up to par and concentrated in a few tech heavy buildings for pass through so it can be routed to other critical points.

http://www.submarinecablemap.com/

http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20130716/BUSINESS03/707169975

Edited July 5, 2014 by travelpeon