Furious with Holland America!

[sapper1]

There's nothing special about US citizens as far as pre-clearance is concerned. It's either available for everyone on the flight, or it's not available to anyone.

 

There are some wrinkles, too, like the fact that the pre-clearance at Shannon closes in the middle of the afternoon. Earlier flights get pre-clearance, later flights don't.

 

Absolutely. Pre cleared flights taxi to gates outside the customs security area of the destination airport in the US. There is no checking of passengers when they disembark as to whether they have cleared or not. All have been cleared.

 

Also, if you are in the US departure lounge of a Canadian airport with pre clearance facilities you will have gone through US customs and US TSA clearance prior to being admitted to that part of the airport. There is no other way in except through customs. It is for all nationalities and not just US citizens.

[rochelle_s]

The thing is that the OP did not leave their bags outside of their room. Late in the evening and past the expected bag drop off time, they handed their bags off to a steward outside of an elevator.

 

Yes, the steward should have made certain that the bags got to the proper place. However, when you go outside of the established system, sometime the system does not work.

 

The fact that both of their bags went missing strongly suggested that they are sitting in the same place somewhere and probably right next to each other.

 

If only 1 bag was missing, there might be another explanation. But I can not think of another explanation for both bags going missing.

 

DON

 

Please do not embellish anything especially when it seems to be for the reason to somehow make this my 'fault'.

 

The bags were not dropped off late nor was it past the expected bag drop off time.

 

I believe the time for bags to be put out by is midnight. I did ask the steward about the time (part as conversation, part as clarification). He responded with "as soon as possible". It was in a friendly tone and I will assume it was because they would like to be finished working 'as soon as possible'. This all happened before 11 PM -- how much before I am not exactly sure. I did have to be in the casino before 11 PM in order to cash out my card. I also know that I did not cash out my card immediately but rather sat and played and chatted with another casino regular. So guaranteed the bags were not LATE in going out.

 

Also much is being made about me handing the bags off directly to a steward. I have again attached an image of the area. I gave the steward the bags in front of the elevators. The area where collected bags were being placed, was the crew area behind the elevators. I did not have a measuring tape with me but I will guess the distance between the two was less than 15 feet. How do two large bags disappear in a matter of 15 feet?

 

Whether you think it is right or wrong that I personally brought the bags directly to the stewards is irrelevant. It does though prove that it was not a fellow passenger that absconded with our bags in the middle of the night. Hence my belief that HAL is responsible for them and their loss.

 

Just as a note to answer others questions about the bags...No they were not high-end bags. They were average soft-sided bags that could be purchased at any regular department or luggage store.

 

Today is Thursday and Guest Relations was hoping to hear something back from the ship today. Whenever it is that I hear something I will come back and let y'all know.

 

 

Rochelle

Edited July 10, 2014 by rochelle_s

[sail7seas]

I hope you are able to come back later today with good news and let us know the bags have been found on the ship and will be forwarded to you.

 

Good luck.

[chrispb]

Have to disagree on that one! U.S. airport international baggage claim is not accessible to non-passengers since the pax that do come off those flights have to claim their luggage prior to declaring and/or non-declaring their possessions to U.S. CBP (after passport control).

 

Now, domestic baggage claim, at least at LAX, is fully accessible to anyone walking in from the outside/street. There used to be a time when you had to show you luggage claim tickets to a private security person at the exit who would then compare those to the tickets hanging on your luggage, but those times are long gone

 

My family flew direct from London to Orlando, I was on a different flight where I changed at Atlanta. Our flights arrived about half hour apart and we met up at the baggage claim. Car hire was one floor down and there was open access between carousels and the outdoor world.

 

This is the one incident I remember clearly but pretty sure Miami was the same.

[chrispb]

There's nothing special about US citizens as far as pre-clearance is concerned. It's either available for everyone on the flight, or it's not available to anyone.

 

There are some wrinkles, too, like the fact that the pre-clearance at Shannon closes in the middle of the afternoon. Earlier flights get pre-clearance, later flights don't.

 

 

At Dublin airport there was a separate queue for US citizens which moved much more quickly than the others. But still quicker than doing it on arrival in the US.

[POA1]

This is the one incident I remember clearly but pretty sure Miami was the same.

 

MIA international arrivals pick up their luggage and then report to Customs / Immigration. It's definitely not open to the outside.

[chrispb]

MIA international arrivals pick up their luggage and then report to Customs / Immigration. It's definitely not open to the outside.

 

Sorry, as I said I don't remember clearly. But the Orlando airport is as I said.

Airports all become a blur after a time (thankfully).

[POA1]

Sorry, as I said I don't remember clearly. But the Orlando airport is as I said.

Airports all become a blur after a time (thankfully).

 

Not a problem. I just happened to know the answer for Miami. It's confusing sometimes because you can clear in San Juan, PR if you are coming from the Caribbean and you connect through SJU.

 

That's weird about MCO. I wonder why that is? (Having never flown overseas and then rushed back to see Mickey Mouse, I don't have any experience. ;) Maybe someone from the Orlando area knows the answer.)

[SoCal Cruiser78]

...Airports all become a blur after a time (thankfully).

 

They do. There is also the fact that many are being constantly remodeled so layouts can vary from one visit to the next.

[Copper10-8]

....................Airports all become a blur after a time (thankfully).

 

That's for sure! ;)

[rochelle_s]

That's for sure! ;)

 

Copper10-8

 

Wondering if you can tell me how often it is that luggage disappears completely from a cruise ship. I understand delays happening but curious about being lost forever. Is theft of luggage something that even happens on the ships? If so what are the procedures taken when it does occur?

 

Thanks for any insight you might be able to provide.

 

 

Rochelle

[Jemima]

I went back and reread OP's first post and noticed something that hasn't been mentioned again in this thread. I'm hesitant to mention it as these were probably lovely people, but it did stand out on the reread.

"On the last night of the cruise we were visiting new friends in their cabin. When we were leaving the stewards were in the hall collecting bags. I asked what time the bags needed to be out by. The response was, "As soon as possible" Seeing as we needed to go to the casino by 11pm to cash out we went to the cabin and I brought the two suitcases to the elevator area and handed them directly to the steward before going down to the casino."

[Shmoo here]

I went back and reread OP's first post and noticed something that hasn't been mentioned again in this thread. I'm hesitant to mention it as these were probably lovely people, but it did stand out on the reread.

"On the last night of the cruise we were visiting new friends in their cabin. When we were leaving the stewards were in the hall collecting bags. I asked what time the bags needed to be out by. The response was, "As soon as possible" Seeing as we needed to go to the casino by 11pm to cash out we went to the cabin and I brought the two suitcases to the elevator area and handed them directly to the steward before going down to the casino."

 

And your point is.......????

[hrhdhd]

Sorry, as I said I don't remember clearly. But the Orlando airport is as I said. Airports all become a blur after a time (thankfully).

 

Here is the explanation of how the baggage process for international and domestic flights differs at MCO (Orlando International Airport).

 

http://orlandoairports.net/arrive/index.htm

 

The initial baggage claim area for international flights is not accessible to the general public; it's not even in the main terminal. International passengers do have the option to put their baggage on a carousel that will take their luggage to the regular baggage claim area once they have cleared immigration and customs; maybe it is that second step that you remember.

[vbmom87]

I hope you are able to come back later today with good news and let us know the bags have been found on the ship and will be forwarded to you.

 

Good luck.

 

 

I hope so too!!

[Donray]

First off, $4000 is ridicules for one persons luggage.

 

You failed to take into account depreciated value. That is all you are entitled to. Would pay $38 dollar for a used bra?

 

What would you pay for used panties?

 

What would you pay for used cloths? Very little.

 

I hope the OP learned that one should purchase insurance to cover $4000 worth of luggage. It would special insurance but they if always travel with $4000 worth of cloths then buy special insurance that will pay for that. `

[Jemima]

OP stated that the two bags were very different from each other and only had the Gray2 tags in common. (And those tags can be easily changed.) If those bags left the ship, the most logical explantion of the two non-identical bags both disappearing would be intentional theft of those specific bags. In this scenario the thieves would either know certain items were in the bags or would have put the items there themselves. I probablyread too many mysteries.

[uilleann]

I am not a lawyer but I did take a lot of contract business law while getting my MBA..So I know just enough to get me in trouble..... But.....What about taking this to a lawyer or a less expensive option....look at small claims courts.

 

In my opinion you had a reasonable expectation, regardless of fine print on any HAL documents, that once you handed your luggage to a steward that you would find it again at the dock.

 

We took someone to small claims court once. It was a bit stressful but we won and winning was really sweet and made us feel much better about a previous bad event.

 

Who knows... HAL may not want the bad publicity associated with fighting a passenger.

 

BTW we did get the max insurance on our last trip but it was more related to a potential cancellation due to intermittent health issues. If I did not have that I am not sure if I would have bought insurance.

[Donray]

I am not a lawyer but I did take a lot of contract business law while getting my MBA..So I know just enough to get me in trouble..... But.....What about taking this to a lawyer or a less expensive option....look at small claims courts.

 

In my opinion you had a reasonable expectation, regardless of fine print on any HAL documents, that once you handed your luggage to a steward that you would find it again at the dock.

 

We took someone to small claims court once. It was a bit stressful but we won and winning was really sweet and made us feel much better about a previous bad event.

 

 

Again, they need to come up with realistic costs for a used bra and pantie. Since you took some contract law you should know that you can only recover what the contract and limited to the deprecated value of the goods.

 

For example you have a ten year old car and it is totaled you do not get the perchance price as if it were new.

 

If you go with $5.00 a pound for used cloths and shoes 40 pounds would not be much.

[Jemima]

...In my opinion you had a reasonable expectation, regardless of fine print on any HAL documents, that once you handed your luggage to a steward that you would find it again at the dock...QUOTE]

 

Holland America has nothing to do with luggage once it exits the ship. The people who take it off the ship and those that place it in the terminal are port employees, not Holland America employees. There is no evidence that it went missing on the ship. If it did, it would likely have been located by now.

 

(I do know an odd story of a piece of luggage that went missing for two weeks on a ship, but it was "found". It turned out to have been in another passenger's cabin for the whole time. That passenger "found" it when they were packing to disembark.)

[Stratheden]

...In my opinion you had a reasonable expectation, regardless of fine print on any HAL documents, that once you handed your luggage to a steward that you would find it again at the dock...QUOTE]

 

Holland America has nothing to do with luggage once it exits the ship. The people who take it off the ship and those that place it in the terminal are port employees, not Holland America employees. There is no evidence that it went missing on the ship. If it did, it would likely have been located by now.

 

(I do know an odd story of a piece of luggage that went missing for two weeks on a ship, but it was "found". It turned out to have been in another passenger's cabin for the whole time. That passenger "found" it when they were packing to disembark.)

 

Hal is responsible if it wasn't taken off the ship though.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Again, they need to come up with realistic costs for a used bra and pantie. Since you took some contract law you should know that you can only recover what the contract and limited to the deprecated value of the goods.

 

For example you have a ten year old car and it is totaled you do not get the perchance price as if it were new.

 

If you go with $5.00 a pound for used cloths and shoes 40 pounds would not be much.

 

The problem I have with insurance companies depreciating goods is that not all goods depreciate at the same rate, IMO. I have 10-year-old formal dress shoes that I have probably worn 2 or 3 times and look brand new, and six-month-old running shoes I have probably worn 50 times and look well worn.

 

I tend to cruise with the rarely-worn stuff (ie: tuxedo and patent leather dress shoes) that might last me another 10 years, so a depreciated value policy would hit me hard.

[POA1]

The problem I have with insurance companies depreciating goods is that not all goods depreciate at the same rate, IMO. I have 10-year-old formal dress shoes that I have probably worn 2 or 3 times and look brand new, and six-month-old running shoes I have probably worn 50 times and look well worn.

 

I tend to cruise with the rarely-worn stuff (ie: tuxedo and patent leather dress shoes) that might last me another 10 years, so a depreciated value policy would hit me hard.

 

You can always buy "replacement value" insurance. That way, if your 10 yr old formal shoes go missing - or are stolen by a gang of crazed, seagoing patent leather thieves - you can get new ones, even if the price went up since you bought them.

[sapper1]

First off, $4000 is ridicules for one persons luggage.

 

You failed to take into account depreciated value. That is all you are entitled to. Would pay $38 dollar for a used bra?

 

What would you pay for used panties?

 

What would you pay for used cloths? Very little.

 

I hope the OP learned that one should purchase insurance to cover $4000 worth of luggage. It would special insurance but they if always travel with $4000 worth of cloths then buy special insurance that will pay for that. `

 

It's plain to see you're a guy who hasn't bought a good new bra lately. $38 wouldn't even begin to pay for it. ;)

[SoCal Cruiser78]

You can always buy "replacement value" insurance. That way, if your 10 yr old formal shoes go missing - or are stolen by a gang of crazed, seagoing patent leather thieves - you can get new ones, even if the price went up since you bought them.

 

The travel insurance companies I have shopped in the past don't offer replacement value for luggage, stolen by crazed seagoing thieves ;) or otherwise. My homeowner's policy does have replacement value coverage, but with a $1000 deductible, and many restrictions beyond that. One is that it will not pay out if the insurance company (!) determines that I was negligent in any way.

 

My guess is that they would argue that leaving luggage overnight in a hallway, and not keeping it in the cabin and walking it off the ship, is negligent.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Ryndam2002