This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[nb125]

I see, so it's all about the casino. Personally, as a smoker, I think allowing smoking in an enclosed indoor area when it is not allowed on open decks is hypocritical and money grabbing.

[sail7seas]

HAL only allows smoking in the casino when it is open and the rules are that anyone smoking must be actively gaming. People are not to just come in, stand around and smoke their cigarette and leave.

 

[DesertPesce7751]

HAL only allows smoking in the casino when it is open and the rules are that anyone smoking must be actively gaming. People are not to just come in, stand around and smoke their cigarette and leave.

 

 

They actually did a few non-smoking nights on our last cruise and we were delighted to finally be able to use the casino.

[Sow There]

HAL only allows smoking in the casino when it is open and the rules are that anyone smoking must be actively gaming. People are not to just come in, stand around and smoke their cigarette and leave.

 

While this makes sense, to some extent, I guess I don't really understand the policy overall.

 

People enter and exit the casino all the time so I would think that second hand smoke would necessarily exist outside the casino, at least near the exits.

 

My issue is with permitting smoking inside enclosed spaces, whether it's in a stateroom, the casino or the showroom, where folks who don't want to encounter second hand smoke don't have to.

 

IMO, HAL should ban smoking of any kind in any enclosed space on board, but continue to permit it outdoors where the smoke can dissipate without forcing smoke onto others who don't want it.

 

Unless and until tobacco is deemed to be an illegal substance, those who choose to smoke should (and will) be accommodated. Their money is still a major element of cruise line revenues.

 

And as we all know. making tobacco into an illegal substance will never happen (see, also, the current wave of legalization of marijuana) because of the huge tax windfall derived therefrom.

[CRUZBUDS]

At some point it is likely all lines will follow Celebrity, including HAL.

 

No inside smoking at and all and limited outside, with no balcony smoking. It may take a while and HAL will probably bring up the rear :)

[sail7seas]

They actually did a few non-smoking nights on our last cruise and we were delighted to finally be able to use the casino.

 

 

 

Good. :) Thumbs up.

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

 

Unless and until tobacco is deemed to be an illegal substance, those who choose to smoke should (and will) be accommodated. Their money is still a major element of cruise line revenues.

 

And as we all know. making tobacco into an illegal substance will never happen (see, also, the current wave of legalization of marijuana) because of the huge tax windfall derived therefrom.

 

 

 

At some point (soon ?), the huge tax will not be huge enough to offset the massive medical costs of treating all the lung cancers, heart attacks, emphysema, esophageal cancers, COPD etc that result from smokers and cigarettes/cigars/chewing tobacco. The huge medical costs could well be at the point where it would be cost sensible to institute tighter restrictions.

 

We also still hear of fires resulting from careless disposal of smoking materials. Factor those $$ costs in addition to life and limb.

 

 

[sail7seas]

At some point it is likely all lines will follow Celebrity, including HAL.

 

No inside smoking at and all and limited outside, with no balcony smoking. It may take a while and HAL will probably bring up the rear :)

 

I agree. :)

 

[Sow There]

At some point (soon ?), the huge tax will not be huge enough to offset the massive medical costs of treating all the lung cancers, heart attacks, emphysema, esophageal cancers, COPD etc that result from smokers and cigarettes/cigars/chewing tobacco. The huge medical costs could well be at the point where it would be cost sensible to institute tighter restrictions.

 

We also still hear of fires resulting from careless disposal of smoking materials. Factor those $$ costs in addition to life and limb.

Not gonna happen.

 

Look at the current news from Staten Island where an unarmed man was given the death sentence for selling untaxed cigarettes. The cops were engaged in enforcing the state's and city's tax laws when the encounter occurred.

 

Look also at the explosion of legalized marijuana, where the negative medical consequences of ingesting Cannabis far outweigh the positives.

 

Here in CA cigarette taxes are critical to the state budget. Conversely, the medical costs are not borne by the states but from private individuals, either directly or indirectly via insurance premiums or medicare taxes. Do you really believe that the state will use the medical cost argument to outlaw tobacco and lose the tax revenues it generates? Do you really think that the recent relaxation of marijuana laws will be reversed so that those of us who find second hand smoke from marijuana to be objectionable will be satisfied?

 

If you do there's a nice new bridge in San Francisco I'd like to sell you.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Sow There

[sail7seas]

Maybe the smokers themselves will decide to stop?

Millions and millions of people world wide have done so..... perhaps more will choose to?

If they add up what they spend a year on cigarettes, they may decide better care for their health and other ways to spend that money might be worth considering.

 

Imagine how many cruises some could have taken with all the money they burned into ash.

 

Edited December 8, 2014 by sail7seas

[sammiedawg]

Maybe the smokers themselves will decide to stop?

Millions and millions of people world wide have done so..... perhaps more will choose to?

If they add up what they spend a year on cigarettes, they may decide better care for their health and other ways to spend that money might be worth considering.

 

Imagine how many cruises some could have taken with all the money they burned into ash.

 

 

The CDC Publishes yearly statistics on smoking prevalence and the percentage declines with each generation. The statistics also Indicate smoking is more prevalent among less educated people and lower social classes.

Employers in large numbers will not hire smokers and Premployment drug screens test for nicotine. Property owners in large numbers will not rent to smokers. Smoking is banned in nearly all public places. It is much tougher to sustain the habit, not to mention the financial and medical cost.

[tip]

At some point it is likely all lines will follow Celebrity, including HAL.

 

No inside smoking at and all and limited outside, with no balcony smoking. It may take a while and HAL will probably bring up the rear :)

 

Sooner or later HAL will become a part of the 21st Century.

[kennicott]

Your chances of having a smoking neighbour on your verandah are exactly the same and as far as the outdoor areas go HAL is far more restrictive than other lines we do not allow smoking on balconies. If you have never been bothered by smoking on HAL before, why would you be now?

 

Some how I must be missing something in this post. Please run it by me again. You say "we" don't allow smoking on balconies, "we"?--- are you talking about HAL? Prior to that you say "HAL is far more restrictive than other lines". Are you trying to tell me that HAL employs a more restrictive no smoking ordinance than other cruise lines? Perhaps you might want to rephrase or explain.

[nb125]

Some how I must be missing something in this post. Please run it by me again. You say "we" don't allow smoking on balconies, "we"?--- are you talking about HAL? Prior to that you say "HAL is far more restrictive than other lines". Are you trying to tell me that HAL employs a more restrictive no smoking ordinance than other cruise lines? Perhaps you might want to rephrase or explain.

 

Sorry it should have said HAL is more restrictive than lines who do not allow smoking on balconies, meaning they have fewer outdoor areas than other lines.

[mrscopper]

Will not book suite with HAL, will book cheaper window room. We could not spend time on verandah since we had smokers on both sides, it was disgusting. We love the casino, but could not stay very long, clothes and hair smelled like smoke. Please HAL, this is not good for anyone's health.

[peddieplease]

At some point (soon ?), the huge tax will not be huge enough to offset the massive medical costs of treating all the lung cancers, heart attacks, emphysema, esophageal cancers, COPD etc that result from smokers and cigarettes/cigars/chewing tobacco. The huge medical costs could well be at the point where it would be cost sensible to institute tighter restrictions.

 

We also still hear of fires resulting from careless disposal of smoking materials. Factor those $$ costs in addition to life and limb.

 

 

 

I agree very much with your point about the medical costs of smoking. This is a real concern. I hate to be one who once again puts a damper on the fun of cruising and eating, but the medical costs of obesity resulting in heart disease, etc., is also very significant. I am definitely not saying that smoking is not a huge consequence, but let's be real here. There are many things we do as human beings that are not good for us. Do you know if the person next to you is only having a cigarette or two on a cruise and not causing him/herself or others harm? We all do things that are not good for us, including drinking too much. I wish we could all be more tolerant of each other and more considerate--and I do speak to those who smoke, mostly. I think it's only fair to non-smokers that we not smoke inside where they have to inhale it, and I think we smokers should ALWAYS be considerate of those on balconies adjoining us. It really doesn't have to be a big fight over this. I would agree with HAL banning any indoor smoking, as this seems to make sense (regardless of the fact that I would like to smoke indoor and in the casino). Can I hear an equally generous reaction from the nonsmokers? :)

[kennicott]

I think it's only fair to non-smokers that we not smoke inside where they have to inhale it, and I think we smokers should ALWAYS be considerate of those on balconies adjoining us. It really doesn't have to be a big fight over this. I would agree with HAL banning any indoor smoking, as this seems to make sense (regardless of the fact that I would like to smoke indoor and in the casino). Can I hear an equally generous reaction from the nonsmokers? :)

 

We only cruise with three. Totals, HAL 220 days, Princess 208 days, Regent 121 days.

 

I keep reading that HAL has a more restrictive smoking policy than the other two, except for HAL allowing smoking on balconies. Since we only book balconies anymore that is a big factor. I really can't see or have we experienced, where HAL is more or less restrictive than the others throughout the rest of a ship though.

 

Now, based on recent booking experience for similar itineraries it looks to me like HAL is definitely selling out balconies, while the other two have not. We did recently cancel out a 31 day Mediterranean and TA with HAL for next October, we did it for reasons other than the smoking policy which we weren't aware of at the time, but did discover that HAL balconies were all "Booked Out" on alternative options. HAL being the only game in town as far as balcony smoking was concerned at that time probably accounted for us looking elsewhere, but it figures.

 

Regardless, in the kind spirit of reasonableness as defined by Peddieplease, In that:

 

"I think it's only fair to non-smokers that we not smoke inside where they have to inhale it, and I think we smokers should ALWAYS be considerate of those on balconies adjoining us. It really doesn't have to be a big fight over this. I would agree with HAL banning any indoor smoking, as this seems to make sense (regardless of the fact that I would like to smoke indoor and in the casino). Can I hear an equally generous reaction from the nonsmokers?"

 

We bequeath any future balcony staterooms on HAL to you, enjoy. We did very much relish our 220 days of fond voyaging experience with HAL since 1999. Hope the same holds true for you.

 

REGENT SEVEN SEAS CRUSIES

 

Where You Can Smoke: Cigarette smoking is only allowed in designated areas of the outdoor pool area and the following public areas on Seven Seas Voyager, Seven Seas Mariner and Seven Seas Navigator: The Connoisseur Club, Horizon Lounge (designated area outside) and pool area (designated area opposite side of the pool bar).

 

Electronic cigarette smoking is permitted throughout the ship, with the exception of any enclosed dining areas.

 

Where You Can't: RSSC does not allow smoking in cabins, suites or on private balconies. Smoking is also not permitted in any enclosed dining areas.

 

Cigar and Pipe Smoking: Cigar smoking is permitted in the Connoisseur Club on Seven Seas Mariner, Navigator and Voyager, and in the designated area of the pool area (opposite the pool bar) on those three ships. Pipe smoking is permitted only in the Connoisseur Club on Mariner, Navigator and Voyager, and is prohibited in open deck areas and on all other ships.

 

PRINCESS CRUISES

 

Where You Can Smoke: Smoking is permitted in the Churchill's cigar lounge, a section of the disco and casino, and a portion of the open decks.

 

Where You Can't: Smoking is prohibited in show lounges, elevators, dining rooms and all food service areas. Princess also prohibits smoking in cabins and balconies across its fleet.

 

Cigar and Pipe Smoking: Cigar and pipe smoking is permitted only on the open decks.

 

HOLLAND AMERICA LINE

 

Where You Can Smoke: Smoking is permitted on cabin balconies (not inside the cabins), open decks, the casino and Seaview Bar. E-cigarettes can be smoked inside the cabins, but not in other designated areas throughout the ship.

 

Where You Can't: All cabins (with the exception of balconies), restaurants and most indoor areas (including showrooms) are non-smoking.

 

Cigar and Pipe Smoking: Cigar and pipe smoking is prohibited inside; it is only allowed on outside decks and on cabin balconies

[nb125]

HOLLAND AMERICA LINE

 

Where You Can Smoke: Smoking is permitted on cabin balconies (not inside the cabins), open decks, the casino and Seaview Bar. E-cigarettes can be smoked inside the cabins, but not in other designated areas throughout the ship.

 

This is very misleading for smokers. On the Noordam the only outside smoking area is the Seaview Bar not open decks as stated.

[sail7seas]

I agree very much with your point about the medical costs of smoking. This is a real concern. I hate to be one who once again puts a damper on the fun of cruising and eating, but the medical costs of obesity resulting in heart disease, etc., is also very significant. I am definitely not saying that smoking is not a huge consequence, but let's be real here. There are many things we do as human beings that are not good for us. Do you know if the person next to you is only having a cigarette or two on a cruise and not causing him/herself or others harm? We all do things that are not good for us, including drinking too much. I wish we could all be more tolerant of each other and more considerate--and I do speak to those who smoke, mostly. I think it's only fair to non-smokers that we not smoke inside where they have to inhale it, and I think we smokers should ALWAYS be considerate of those on balconies adjoining us. It really doesn't have to be a big fight over this. I would agree with HAL banning any indoor smoking, as this seems to make sense (regardless of the fact that I would like to smoke indoor and in the casino). Can I hear an equally generous reaction from the nonsmokers? :)

 

 

I never read in this thread that anyone said smoking is the only health risk in our society. This thread is a discussion of smoking on HAL ships.

 

If you wish to discuss obesity, fine but one does not 'counter balance' the other.

I can speak only for myself but whenever we have a smoking conversation, someone will insert the perfume and obesity issues and I see that merely as diversion from the subject at hand.

 

To ask for tolerance of people unwillingly being subjected to second hand smoke, you ask for what is impossible for some. Very often the reaction of many non-smokers is an involuntary response and is intolerable to them and their need to breath.

Edited December 10, 2014 by sail7seas

[Cashew14]

I think those who suffer and are concerned about their health by a whiff of smoke of a cigarette should stay at home, FUNNEL smoke is much stronger. And they can't get away from that one.

 

I am only concerned about their health.

[Sow There]

I think those who suffer and are concerned about their health by a whiff of smoke of a cigarette should stay at home, FUNNEL smoke is much stronger. And they can't get away from that one.

 

I am only concerned about their health.

Agree 100%.

 

Similarly, have you noticed how much nasty smelling and unhealthy black smoke is belched out by city buses every day as they pass by "smoke free" buildings?

 

Where's the balance? Why is Bunker C exhaust, as unhealthy as it is, virtually ignored while tobacco smoke is vilified?

 

When the constant belching of unhealthy funnel exhaust is making balcony enjoyment much more difficult than an occasional whiff of Marlboro smoke, it's hard to see the balance in the argument.

[CRUZBUDS]

The ship needs to burn fuel to make the ship go - we all benefit from that

 

Where is the benefit to the non-smoker who has to breath your cigarette smoke? -- I don't think there is one. This argument is about as valid as obesity or perfume.

 

They do come up again and again

 

[Aquahound]

This thread is a discussion of smoking on HAL ships.

 

...a concept that seems to be lost on some people. But hey, lets not let the topic prevent a good lecture on the rest of the world's problems. ;)

[waASPCrusier]

I never read in this thread that anyone said smoking is the only health risk in our society. This thread is a discussion of smoking on HAL ships.

 

A discussion that you seem to have forgotten, not to include the health benefits and economics.

 

From initial post in this thread. Bolding is mine.

 

 

Reminders.

 

1. Our community guidelines continue to apply to this thread.

 

2. This is a forum for discussions of cruising and associated topics. It is not a forum for discussing the health, economics and public policy aspects of smoking, whether associated with cigarettes, pipes, cigars or controlled substances (marijuana).

 

3. Discussions of this approach to smoking posts and other board policies are off topic and will be removed. Please post discussions of this approach for smoking posts to this thread: Single Smoking Thread on the HAL Board - a Sticky

 

Thanks for your understanding and continued participation on the Cruise Critic forums.

[chrispb]

I think those who suffer and are concerned about their health by a whiff of smoke of a cigarette should stay at home, FUNNEL smoke is much stronger. And they can't get away from that one.

 

I am only concerned about their health.

 

 

Well said. Someone put a photo of a HAL ship passing their ship just a month or two ago and there was a LOT of black smoke belching from the funnel. But of course, this doesn't affect those with allergies to smoke:cool: