This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[oaktreerb]

Just got off the Veendam. I was expecting smoking issues on the lower promenade but there were no ashtrays for me to remove. I saw three people smoking, one a cigar on the first day, another a cigarette using a can for an ashtray. Another person smoked while standing along the rail. The smoke seemed to drift away.

 

I did hear a few people remark that they did not book a verandah because of the possibility of smokers next door.

[Cruzaholic41]

Yes. Ashtray of the Seas.

 

I agree. I remember a time and place we would be on a bargain basement cruise line like Carnival or NCL and we would look over with envy at the beautiful, classic looking HAL ship across the pier. Now, when I look over and see all the balcony smokers, I feel just the opposite. Ashtray of the Seas? Yep, that's a pretty good statement.

[MaxThrusters]

As an ex-smoker I found our verandah last year almost unbearable from the smell of cigarette smoke. It was much more tolerable in the casino, perhaps from the ventilation system.

 

There were many people using electronic cigarettes in the casino, which was simply great. No stink at all, in fact some smelled delicious. They should encourage that I think, so smokers can have that and not bother anyone inside or on verandahs with the smell of burning tobacco.

[Sow There]

Just got off the Veendam. I was expecting smoking issues on the lower promenade but there were no ashtrays for me to remove. I saw three people smoking, one a cigar on the first day, another a cigarette using a can for an ashtray. Another person smoked while standing along the rail. The smoke seemed to drift away.

 

I did hear a few people remark that they did not book a verandah because of the possibility of smokers next door.

 

Not sure why you think you have any business removing ashtrays in the first place.

 

Also, we cruise for the pleasure of the entire experience, not to tally up such things as how many smokers were smoking what species of cancer sticks. It's a big ship with a lot of areas where smoking is completely verboten but where the fumes from the stack can be unpleasant to some.

 

As for smoking verandah neighbors, this has been discussed earlier in the thread. Virtually anyone who still smokes is keenly aware of the aggressiveness of the anti-smoking brigade and most will accede to the desires of their neighbors if asked in a non-confrontational manner. If someone forgoes the pleasure of booking a verandah in the off-chance they may have a neighbor upwind who smokes when they are on their verandah, then it's that person who has the problem.

[peddieplease]

Yes. Ashtray of the Seas. Read back in this thread instead of just looking for mine and you will see other references to it, besides my own.

 

Lizzie, you're right, and I apologize. We smokers tend to get very defensive. I shouldn't have made that personal. I hope you'll forgive me. I'm actually not normally a difficult person, but I think the reason I get defensive is because I really do know how bad smoking is and I'm rather ashamed that I still engage in it. But I'm trying . . . :) I think Sow There had it right, too, that most of us are aware that it causes and problem on balconies, and I think most of us would really not want to spoil anyone else's cruise. I've always made sure that I'm not smoking when my neighbors are out.

[oaktreerb]

Not sure why you think you have any business removing ashtrays in the first place.

 

Also, we cruise for the pleasure of the entire experience, not to tally up such things as how many smokers were smoking what species of cancer sticks. It's a big ship with a lot of areas where smoking is completely verboten but where the fumes from the stack can be unpleasant to some.

 

As for smoking verandah neighbors, this has been discussed earlier in the thread. Virtually anyone who still smokes is keenly aware of the aggressiveness of the anti-smoking brigade and most will accede to the desires of their neighbors if asked in a non-confrontational manner. If someone forgoes the pleasure of booking a verandah in the off-chance they may have a neighbor upwind who smokes when they are on their verandah, then it's that person who has the problem.

 

Said in jest in response to a discussion of lower promenade smoking a few weeks ago.

 

This thread is too long and too varied to have civil comments any longer and should probably be closed.

Edited November 17, 2014 by oaktreerb

[Lizzie68]

Said in jest in response to a discussion of lower promenade smoking a few weeks ago.

 

This thread is too long and too varied to have civil comments any longer and should probably be closed.

 

I'm going to disagree - but with a smile:) - I think it makes perfect sense to keep it all in this one thread, and not have several different ones going at the same time, and the hundreds of others that were going previously. And, you can easily go back to check to see if something else was mentioned. Honestly, I think this thread has been pretty civil whereas some others have had to be closed down because of insults flying - both ways.

 

By the way - I did get that you were joking about moving the ashtrays, because I remembered the previous comments. And I'm sure many others did too. Sometimes the humour in a sentence gets lost on a forum, so that's a good case for putting the laughing face in there.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Lizzie68

[Shellback801]

My concern with HAL right now, under the current circumstances, is, are they going to overload their ships with smokers since they have the only lenient balcony smoking policy going?

 

Just got off of the Westerdam on Saturday. There was smoking on each side of us. It wasn't bad when we were underway, just the occasional whiff. They drove us back into the cabin both times we were at anchor, however.

[oaktreerb]

I'm going to disagree - but with a smile:) - I think it makes perfect sense to keep it all in this one thread, and not have several different ones going at the same time, and the hundreds of others that were going previously. And, you can easily go back to check to see if something else was mentioned. Honestly, I think this thread has been pretty civil whereas some others have had to be closed down because of insults flying - both ways.

 

By the way - I did get that you were joking about moving the ashtrays, because I remembered the previous comments. And I'm sure many others did too. Sometimes the humour in a sentence gets lost on a forum, so that's a good case for putting the laughing face in there.

 

Thanks. ( I can't seem to get the smile in the text but did get it to show up above this time.:) On second thought it did work!

Edited November 19, 2014 by oaktreerb

[Hlitner]

So, does the smoking policy matter? To us it just became the deal breaker that finalized our decision to cancel a $20,000 Voyage of the Vikings booking. We had booked that cruise while onboard another (38 day) HAL cruise. But after a lot of reflection we concluded that HAL gets top dollar for that Voyage of the Vikings cruise (it is a great seller) and we just could not justify the high price (per passenger day) for a cruise where we could not walk through the casino without thinking we were passing through a dirty ashtray. Another factor was that on this outdated ship design (Veendam) there were no reasonably priced balconies. The money saved will probably soon go to a different cruise line with stricter no smoking policies.

 

Hank

[Host Walt]

I'm going to disagree - but with a smile:) - I think it makes perfect sense to keep it all in this one thread, and not have several different ones going at the same time, and the hundreds of others that were going previously. And, you can easily go back to check to see if something else was mentioned. Honestly, I think this thread has been pretty civil whereas some others have had to be closed down because of insults flying - both ways....

 

Thanks for your comments. This was the objective and it's clear that the thread has been quite civil; much more so than the bad old days when smoking threads went off the rails as early as the first or second page.

 

Thanks to everyone for making this thread a good opportunity to discuss the current smoking policy on board. If HAL announces a change in policy at some future date we'll start a new thread.

 

Thanks again.

[tip]

If HAL announces a change in policy at some future date we'll start a new thread.

 

Thanks again.

 

I check the HAL boards frequently looking for this thread!:D

[Sow There]

I check the HAL boards frequently looking for this thread!:D

 

Aren't we all? Is a question of where (will smoking be permitted) and when (the announcement will happen).

[freestyling]

I thought it might happen with the new ship .

[GlennG]

So, does the smoking policy matter? To us it just became the deal breaker that finalized our decision to cancel a $20,000 Voyage of the Vikings booking. We had booked that cruise while onboard another (38 day) HAL cruise. But after a lot of reflection we concluded that HAL gets top dollar for that Voyage of the Vikings cruise (it is a great seller) and we just could not justify the high price (per passenger day) for a cruise where we could not walk through the casino without thinking we were passing through a dirty ashtray. Another factor was that on this outdated ship design (Veendam) there were no reasonably priced balconies. The money saved will probably soon go to a different cruise line with stricter no smoking policies.

 

Hank

Hank,

I have always appreciated your articulate and balanced writing. My wife and I appreciate the comments, concise descriptions, advice, and suggestions that you have made in your written contributions to Cruise Critic. Like you, I'm concerned about "balcony smoking" on Holland America Ships. Your decision to chose another cruise line is admirable. Simply put, you are choosing with your dollars. I wish more Holland America cruisers would do the same thing. Actions always speak louder than words.

[meglet]

Hopefully, there will be lines to accommodate all preferences. For every customer who cancels a HAL booking due to their smoking policy, there may very well be customers who book HAL specifically FOR their smoking policy. I can't spend over $20,000 on one cruise, but I can over 4 cruises.

[Drico]

 

...we concluded that HAL gets top dollar for that Voyage of the Vikings cruise (it is a great seller) and we just could not justify the high price (per passenger day) for a cruise where we could not walk through the casino without thinking we were passing through a dirty ashtray.

 

Hank

 

But don't the other lines also allow smoking in their casinos, too? I understand Celebrity (and perhaps other lines) doesn't allow smoking on formal nights, but during the rest of the cruise the casinos would have smokers.

[sail7seas]

But don't the other lines also allow smoking in their casinos, too? I understand Celebrity (and perhaps other lines) doesn't allow smoking on formal nights, but during the rest of the cruise the casinos would have smokers.

 

Disney ships do not have casinos.

 

[Hlitner]

But don't the other lines also allow smoking in their casinos, too? I understand Celebrity (and perhaps other lines) doesn't allow smoking on formal nights, but during the rest of the cruise the casinos would have smokers.

 

For the record, neither Celebrity or Oceania allow any smoking (anytime) in their casinos.

 

Hank

[cruz chic]

For the record, neither Celebrity or Oceania allow any smoking (anytime) in their casinos.

 

Hank

 

It seems that some posters go from board to board looking for smoking threads to comment on. Surpring a person that diligent would not know which cruise lines don't allow smoking in casinos. Count me in the crowd that will be thrilled not to have the endure smoke on my next cruise. I applaud your decision to cancel that cruise and I hope you let hal know the reason. I strongly feel that they will move to non smoking balconies by mid next year. I'm on the NA right now and I'll be letting them know how much I hate their smoking policy.

[PathfinderEss]

It seems that some posters go from board to board looking for smoking threads to comment on. Surpring a person that diligent would not know which cruise lines don't allow smoking in casinos. Count me in the crowd that will be thrilled not to have the endure smoke on my next cruise. I applaud your decision to cancel that cruise and I hope you let hal know the reason. I strongly feel that they will move to non smoking balconies by mid next year. I'm on the NA right now and I'll be letting them know how much I hate their smoking policy.

 

Sorry Cruz chic, I have to ask you why your complaining about Hal's smoking policy on this cruise.? Are you surrounded by smokers on your deck?

[scm1848]

We have a suite booked for a 25 day collector's cruise next year. If HAL cancels smoking on balconies, we will cancel our cruise.

[Lizzie68]

We have a suite booked for a 25 day collector's cruise next year. If HAL cancels smoking on balconies, we will cancel our cruise.

 

That's sad. I remember the days when my smoking dictated how I lived, where I went, where I ate. Thankfully I am no longer a slave to it.

[freestyling]

I too had a hard time kicking the habit but did after multiple attempts. My DW would not allow me to smoke in our house or on our balcony on cruise ship. I hated smoking in casino and never did, however I knew what outside deck I could light up on :D. Strange how I really couldn't stand the smell then or now.

[Hlitner]

This may shock some, but when we called HAL to cancel (this morning) we never even mentioned their smoking policy as a reason. As I said, it was the deal breaker for us, but it was coupled with other reasons including the very high per passenger cost per day of that particular itinerary. As a CCL Stockholder we certainly are happy if HAL can get top dollar for any itinerary...but we shall share in the profits without contributing our own money to their pro smoking cause.

 

So why did we not raise the issue with HAL? Because when we call the line we are dealing with a clerk, who sits in her little cubicle, and has to listen to stuff all day long. There is nothing to be gained by complaining to her as raising that issue will have no more impact on HAL then all the surveys and CC comments (which they do monitor) which they ignored for many years. We have often put that issue on our post cruise evaluation, although we assume that it is also totally ignored by HAL. The line is obviously committed to improving their bottom line, but we do not think they have a lot of interest in dealing with cruiser complaints. At a point when they realize that their pro smoking policy is adversely impacting their bottom line...they will change their policy.

 

If a HAL official were to call us and ask for more details we would certainly lay it all out including the smoking issue. But we certainly will never hear from HAL as they have better things to do with their time such as figuring what cut-back is next on the agenda :). DW still laughs when she mentions an excellent scallop starter we had on the Oosterdam. The taste, prep and presentation were excellent. But the dish contained 2 small scallops. We used to give our dog more then 2 small scallops (she loved anything that smelled like fish). And then there was the evening when DW ordered short ribs which were perfectly cooked and very flavorful. But she had only a single short rib. Being an experienced cruiser she just smiled and happily ordered a nice dessert (which she would have skipped if she had a decent portion of short ribs). It occurs to me that the thinking heads in Seattle have put a lot more thought into how much they can save by only serving 2 small scallops or a single short rib. But I doubt if they care about the non-smokers, or the asthmatics who can have a major attack triggered by 2nd hand smoke since they still do not see that as a revenue issue.

 

I want to end this post by saying that "on the whole" our recent 38 days on the Oosterdam were all good. It was an excellent cruise. Perhaps the sad part was hearing some staff and lecturers begging passengers to lobby HAL to not cut the lecture program (another potential cut-back?). It was mentioned that the lecturers do not generate any onboard revenue and the folks in Seattle would prefer to fill a large public room with a Bingo game, Art Auction, or a tour selling spiel which do generate revenue. All understandable, but sad indeed. Ironically, some of our lectures were standing room only (in the large theater with about 800 souls) while the art auction drew fewer then 30 souls.

 

Hank

Edited November 25, 2014 by Hlitner