This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Lizzie68]

It's only ambiguous if you don't know how to read an outline format. The "outside decks" are listed out under the heading in a fashion as to specify which outside decks have smoking allowed. If the listing "outside decks" meant all of them, there would be no need for the sub-list.

 

Well I'm sure many of us know how to read an outline format. But evidently it's not too obvious to crew members who replace the ashtrays on the promenade deck, which deck is not specified on the list. And it seems to be generally accepted by smokers and those of us not sure, that the promenade deck allows smoking, perhaps in certain areas - one side or the other - the confusion abounds. When doing my laps I often pass smokers, and crew members seem OK with it. Especially in the early morning.

[nb125]

Maybe the Noordam is ahead of all the other ships as they have "no smoking" signs all the way round the promenade deck.

[sail7seas]

Crew smoking areas on the ships are very limited. There are few places where they are permitted to smoke.

[oaktreerb]

Crew smoking areas on the ships are very limited. There are few places where they are permitted to smoke.

 

I think crew has enough places as they can smoke where guests smoke and they also have access to decks that are closed to guests. (The outside forward deck on the Oosterdam had staff smoking on it. I could see them from cabin 5002.) We also had a balcony in Europe which was next to a balcony where staff seemed to come and go to have a cigarette.

 

I am hoping the Lanai cabin will give me a balcony where I am not trapped with smoke coming from surrounding cabins. So, I'll remove any ashtrays that I find on the lower promenade should that become an issue. It's really hard for cruisers to keep up with the rules if they are not posted at the site.

[Cashew14]

As much as non-smokers INSIST on the rules of ships regarding NON-SMOKING areas and they report this and that, I will simply INSIST on my right to smoke on the balcony. Whether the non-smokers like it or not. I used to be a considerate smoker but listening to the radical non-smokers on here, my tolerance level towards non-smokers is close to nil.

 

And trust me, a lot of smokers on here think exactly the same but don't dare to write it.

 

P.S. Thankfully in real life non-smokers on ships are not so dramatic as they are on here. ;)

[RuthC]

I think crew has enough places as they can smoke where guests smoke and they also have access to decks that are closed to guests.

Many crew members aren't allowed in passenger areas at all, and many more are allowed there only when on duty.

Officers and staff do have more areas they are allowed in than most crew.

[sammiedawg]

We are not "radicals" when we ask for changes in the HAL smoking policy. The majority of American public places have been nonsmoking for fifteen or twenty years. Smoking has been banned in hotels, restaurants, bars, workplaces, rental apartments, airplanes, office buildings and virtually all public places. Employers routinely only hire non smokers. Other American based cruise lines have already banned balcony smoking as the smoke and carcinogens infiltrate the space occupied by others.

 

We are not exclusive to Holland America but many loyal passengers are, they want to take advantage of their frequent passenger benefits and they want to enjoy their balcony space.

 

I agree that the smoking policy is purposely vague and I do not need an English lesson to make that assessment. Less than three months ago I saw ship officers smoking on the promenade deck of the Prinsendam. Less than three months ago the metal ash cans were still on the railings and I saw a crew member carry one away to be emptied. Talk about sending mixed messages to passengers. There was no way I was going to complain to security or the front desk about what ship officers were doing but I noted it on my end of cruise survey. My guess is the smoking cans are still there.

 

I stayed out of the smoking threads until recently. I avoided reading the threads and voting in the "polls". Now each time I read this thread I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago.

[sail7seas]

The Town of Westminster in MA is considering banning all cigarette sales. CVS no longer sells cigarettes and any grocery store in MA that has a pharmacy cannot sell tobacco products. It is not radical to want tobacco eliminated for those who don't want to suffer it second hand at sea or on land.

 

[tip]

We are not "radicals" when we ask for changes in the HAL smoking policy. The majority of American public places have been nonsmoking for fifteen or twenty years. Smoking has been banned in hotels, restaurants, bars, workplaces, rental apartments, airplanes, office buildings and virtually all public places. Employers routinely only hire non smokers. Other American based cruise lines have already banned balcony smoking as the smoke and carcinogens infiltrate the space occupied by others.

 

I stayed out of the smoking threads until recently. I avoided reading the threads and voting in the "polls". Now each time I read this thread I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago.

 

Very well said!

[Koshlong]

Smoking is no longer allowed on Lower Promenade Deck.

You should have no problem sitting outside your lanai cabin.

 

Thanks, RuthC, that's all I wanted to know.

[Lizzie68]

We are not "radicals" when we ask for changes in the HAL smoking policy. The majority of American public places have been nonsmoking for fifteen or twenty years. Smoking has been banned in hotels, restaurants, bars, workplaces, rental apartments, airplanes, office buildings and virtually all public places. Employers routinely only hire non smokers. Other American based cruise lines have already banned balcony smoking as the smoke and carcinogens infiltrate the space occupied by others.

 

We are not exclusive to Holland America but many loyal passengers are, they want to take advantage of their frequent passenger benefits and they want to enjoy their balcony space.

 

I agree that the smoking policy is purposely vague and I do not need an English lesson to make that assessment. Less than three months ago I saw ship officers smoking on the promenade deck of the Prinsendam. Less than three months ago the metal ash cans were still on the railings and I saw a crew member carry one away to be emptied. Talk about sending mixed messages to passengers. There was no way I was going to complain to security or the front desk about what ship officers were doing but I noted it on my end of cruise survey. My guess is the smoking cans are still there.

 

I stayed out of the smoking threads until recently. I avoided reading the threads and voting in the "polls". Now each time I read this thread I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago.

 

Thanks. That says it all, and way better than I have expressed it.

[cruz chic]

We are not "radicals" when we ask for changes in the HAL smoking policy. The majority of American public places have been nonsmoking for fifteen or twenty years. Smoking has been banned in hotels, restaurants, bars, workplaces, rental apartments, airplanes, office buildings and virtually all public places. Employers routinely only hire non smokers. Other American based cruise lines have already banned balcony smoking as the smoke and carcinogens infiltrate the space occupied by others.

 

We are not exclusive to Holland America but many loyal passengers are, they want to take advantage of their frequent passenger benefits and they want to enjoy their balcony space.

 

I agree that the smoking policy is purposely vague and I do not need an English lesson to make that assessment. Less than three months ago I saw ship officers smoking on the promenade deck of the Prinsendam. Less than three months ago the metal ash cans were still on the railings and I saw a crew member carry one away to be emptied. Talk about sending mixed messages to passengers. There was no way I was going to complain to security or the front desk about what ship officers were doing but I noted it on my end of cruise survey. My guess is the smoking cans are still there.

 

I stayed out of the smoking threads until recently. I avoided reading the threads and voting in the "polls". Now each time I read this thread I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago.

Like:).

[Psee]

Less than three months ago I saw ship officers smoking on the promenade deck of the Prinsendam. Less than three months ago the metal ash cans were still on the railings and I saw a crew member carry one away to be emptied. Talk about sending mixed messages to passengers. There was no way I was going to complain to security or the front desk about what ship officers were doing but I noted it on my end of cruise survey. My guess is the smoking cans are still there.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Psee
wrong text

[Cruzaholic41]

Now each time I read this thread I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago.

 

Bingo! You hear this HAL? This debate is closed. Now, if you want to continue to tout yourself as a more premium cruise line, you've got some catching up to do. Start negotiating an end date right now for balcony smoking.

[Sow There]

We are not "radicals" when we ask for changes in the HAL smoking policy. The majority of American public places have been nonsmoking for fifteen or twenty years. Smoking has been banned in hotels, restaurants, bars, workplaces, rental apartments, airplanes, office buildings and virtually all public places. Employers routinely only hire non smokers. Other American based cruise lines have already banned balcony smoking as the smoke and carcinogens infiltrate the space occupied by others.

 

We are not exclusive to Holland America but many loyal passengers are, they want to take advantage of their frequent passenger benefits and they want to enjoy their balcony space.

 

I agree that the smoking policy is purposely vague and I do not need an English lesson to make that assessment. Less than three months ago I saw ship officers smoking on the promenade deck of the Prinsendam. Less than three months ago the metal ash cans were still on the railings and I saw a crew member carry one away to be emptied. Talk about sending mixed messages to passengers. There was no way I was going to complain to security or the front desk about what ship officers were doing but I noted it on my end of cruise survey. My guess is the smoking cans are still there.

 

I stayed out of the smoking threads until recently. I avoided reading the threads and voting in the "polls". Now each time I read this thread I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago.

 

You say, "I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago."

 

If that was really true, then why are cigarettes and other tobacco products not banned by law?

 

Also, if that was really true, then why is legalization of marijuana progressing apace in several states? Isn't the possibility of second hand smoke emanating from a toke smoker causing negative effects on non smokers equally a problem? Where's the scientific evidence that toke smoking is less hazardous as cigarette smoking? (See this article: http://secondhandmarijuanasmoke.com/) Yet there is a swell of public push to permit the consumption of marijuana. Would those who support legalization of marijuana also protest any restrictions on the consumption of marijuana?

 

While I agree that there are studies that conclude that second hand smoke can be a substantial hazard to the health of a non-smoker, there remains a debate because there are also contradictory studies showing that second hand tobacco smoke is not a serious hazard. In other words, it is not settled science.

[sail7seas]

The Town of Westminster in MA is considering banning all cigarette sales. CVS no longer sells cigarettes and any grocery store in MA that has a pharmacy cannot sell tobacco products. It is not radical to want tobacco eliminated for those who don't want to suffer it second hand at sea or on land.

 

 

You say, "I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago."

 

If that was really true, then why are cigarettes and other tobacco products not banned by law?

 

<snip>

 

.

 

 

Actually, as I posted, some towns and cities are making it illegal to sell cigarettes. In MA, it is illegal to smoke in many public parks, beaches, outdoor dining patios and many other locations in addition to ALL work places. Just about anyhwhere you go is a workplace for someone.

 

[peaches from georgia]

You say, "I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago."

 

If that was really true, then why are cigarettes and other tobacco products not banned by law?

 

...................................................................

Cigarettes are not banned by law because the Federal and state governments like and depend on the tobacco tax income they get from sales.

Edited November 4, 2014 by peaches from georgia

[Aquahound]

You say, "I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago."

 

If that was really true, then why are cigarettes and other tobacco products not banned by law?

.

 

Almost every state, if not all if them, has outlawed cigarettes in restaurants, transportation, parks, beaches, government buildings and numerous other areas where they are a nuissance to other other people. The federal government has also outlawed them on airplanes, government buildings, certain federal properties, and other areas of nuissance.....and more and more laws banning them in public are written every year.

 

So yes, the debate is over and yes, there are numerous laws making them illegal.

[jimmy2x]

Just finished a week on Westerdam. The only no-smoking signs on the Promenade deck were on the trash receptacles. Nobody was smoking during my many walks there. Nor was anyone smoking on the Promenade deck last year on Noordam.

[kennicott]

You say, "I feel like I am in a time warp as the societal debate about public smoking in America ended a decade or two ago."

 

If that was really true, then why are cigarettes and other tobacco products not banned by law?

 

Cigarettes are not banned by law because the Federal and state governments like and depend on the tobacco tax income they get from sales.

 

 

TITLE 14 CFR 252.3 - Smoking ban: air carriers.

 

§ 252.3 Smoking ban: air carriers

 

Air carriers shall prohibit smoking on all scheduled passenger flights.

 

 

Title 14 Part 121.317

 

© No person may operate an airplane on a flight on which smoking is prohibited by part 252 of this title unless either the “No Smoking” passenger information signs are lighted during the entire flight, or one or more “No Smoking” placards meeting the requirements of §25.1541 of this chapter are posted during the entire flight segment. If both the lighted signs and the placards are used, the signs must remain lighted during the entire flight segment.

[Sow There]

Almost every state, if not all if them, has outlawed cigarettes in restaurants, transportation, parks, beaches, government buildings and numerous other areas where they are a nuissance to other other people. The federal government has also outlawed them on airplanes, government buildings, certain federal properties, and other areas of nuissance.....and more and more laws banning them in public are written every year.

 

So yes, the debate is over and yes, there are numerous laws making them illegal.

 

Oh. So tobacco has been declared a controlled substance like heroin and cocaine? Then why is selling tobacco products still legal (with age and other limitations) but selling heroin and cocaine can get you public housing (i.e., jail)?

 

Driving cars is a legal activity but there are a bunch of laws that restrict where one can operate a vehicle, and Lord knows a car is definitely a dangerous product. So just because there are laws restricting the USE of tobacco products is not the same as an outright ban of tobacco products.

 

So the "debate" isn't over by a long shot.

[Marmarjudy]

As much as non-smokers INSIST on the rules of ships regarding NON-SMOKING areas and they report this and that, I will simply INSIST on my right to smoke on the balcony. Whether the non-smokers like it or not. I used to be a considerate smoker but listening to the radical non-smokers on here, my tolerance level towards non-smokers is close to nil.

 

And trust me, a lot of smokers on here think exactly the same but don't dare to write it.

 

P.S. Thankfully in real life non-smokers on ships are not so dramatic as they are on here. ;)

 

I totally agree. The "smoking on the balcony next to me ruined my cruise" argument is ridiculous. There is NO WAY that the dissipated smoke OUTSIDE for short periods of time could have that effect unless you are, by nature, someone who looks for reasons to be miserable. If so, I feel sorry for you.

 

We've sailed with nonsmokers who have NO problem sitting with us on the same balcony while we are smoking. It's outside, like all the other areas in the majority of the country where smoking is allowed, and the smoke is gone in seconds.

 

As for the "everywhere is now nonsmoking" statement that some have made: also not true. We have no problem finding hotels with smoking rooms..and a cruise ship cabin is our hotel room. We don't smoke in the cabin, of course, but go OUTSIDE to our balcony.

 

Should I bring up the overperfumed, older (found on Holland) cruisers that leave their aroma everywhere? I get an instant headache from that.

 

Enough. I'll probably get blasted, but so be it. By reading all these posts it is obvious that some people on the Holland board live to give their opinion and think they know it all. We will enjoy our January cruise as we have many others and thankfully on those we haven't met any of the closeminded people that post here constantly.

[Aquahound]

Oh. So tobacco has been declared a controlled substance like heroin and cocaine? Then why is selling tobacco products still legal (with age and other limitations) but selling heroin and cocaine can get you public housing (i.e., jail)?

 

Driving cars is a legal activity but there are a bunch of laws that restrict where one can operate a vehicle, and Lord knows a car is definitely a dangerous product. So just because there are laws restricting the USE of tobacco products is not the same as an outright ban of tobacco products.

 

So the "debate" isn't over by a long shot.

 

Heroin, cocaine and driving, huh? Context isn't your strong suit, is it? This is about public smoking and balcony smoking, relevant to HAL's and other cruise lines' policies. Try to stay focused here.

[Shellback801]

So the "debate" isn't over by a long shot.

 

Pretty sure that it is.

 

Cigar and pipe smoker here. I cannot enjoy a bowl of Squadron Leader or a fat Churchill if I know that my neighbor aft of me is gagging. I only light up when I'm well downwind of the nearest human.

 

There may be a few left who think that it's their right to pollute the air of those who are sensitive to smoke, have health problems, or simply want to enjoy their breakfast on the veranda, but thankfully they are part of a rapidly dwindling minority.

 

Puff away while you can. You're only hastening the inevitable.

[sail7seas]

I totally agree. The "smoking on the balcony next to me ruined my cruise" argument is ridiculous. There is NO WAY that the dissipated smoke OUTSIDE for short periods of time could have that effect unless you are, by nature, someone who looks for reasons to be miserable. If so, I feel sorry for you.

 

We've sailed with nonsmokers who have NO problem sitting with us on the same balcony while we are smoking. It's outside, like all the other areas in the majority of the country where smoking is allowed, and the smoke is gone in seconds.

 

As for the "everywhere is now nonsmoking" statement that some have made: also not true. We have no problem finding hotels with smoking rooms..and a cruise ship cabin is our hotel room. We don't smoke in the cabin, of course, but go OUTSIDE to our balcony.

 

Should I bring up the overperfumed, older (found on Holland) cruisers that leave their aroma everywhere? I get an instant headache from that.

 

Enough. I'll probably get blasted, but so be it. By reading all these posts it is obvious that some people on the Holland board live to give their opinion and think they know it all. We will enjoy our January cruise as we have many others and thankfully on those we haven't met any of the closeminded people that post here constantly.

 

 

 

The reality is smokers have no idea how offensive their smoke is to many people. Some people don't mind breathing it but many of us are very disturbed by it. It is not ridiculous to say smokers on both sides of us forced us off our verandah for a full week of a b-to-b on Eurodam. Yes, there is Way.

Which HAL ships have you sailed that you are familiar with the way the smoke drifts not only from a abutter but also from a verandah on deck below.

 

As to perfume and older people........ not that old argument. :rolleyes: This thread is about smoking.

 

In regard to finding lots of places to smoke, you may not like how limited it is in MA and becoming even more so every day.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2014 by sail7seas