This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Lizzie68]

My reply was to the post quoted below from taxmantoo (#1102)

 

Thanks, now I understand the comment. However, Taxmantoo was making a projection, and as far as I recall, no one on this forum has demanded smoke-free ships. For the most part there has been a high level of tolerance and give and take.

[LoveyHowell]

Not sure that dates come into it. This has been quoted a number of times in one form or another - get real, some of us smoke and it's legal - yes, in this century.:)

 

 

 

Many years ago you'd see advertising with doctors smoking and suggesting cigarettes, smoking in shopping malls, smoking in airplanes, smoking in restaurants. It was common. Now we know better the health risks and public sentiment is now more of not having to put up with something we know to be unsafe and find annoying.

 

That said Yes they are legal. Go enjoy them in a space that doesn't infringe on my space. Lots of things are legal but not allowed on a cruise ship.

[chrispb]

Lots of things are legal but not allowed on a cruise ship.

 

But smoking still is :D:D

[chrispb]

So are guns, but I don't believe they are allowed on any cruise line.

 

But guns are not relevant to smoking on balconies, are they?

[sail7seas]

Well, perhaps because they are two things that are legal in some places and both kill. The difference, of course, is one can be used on HAL verandahs but not the other. :eek:

 

[taxmantoo]

But guns are not relevant to smoking on balconies, are they?

 

Neither is the legality of smoking on the balcony.

 

Legality is a matter of obligations imposed by laws which are enacted by governments and overseen by a judicial system. The U.S. government has very little power over foreign registered ships sailing in foreign waters and would never legislate the act of smoking on a cruise ship balcony other than maybe while docked at an American port.

 

HAL has the power to impose their own rules on their own ships as they see fit to enhance the well being of their passengers and increase the profits to their shareholders. That has absolutely nothing to do with smoking being "legal" . It is simply implementing a corporate policy.

Edited January 6, 2015 by taxmantoo

[albingirl]

Thanks, now I understand the comment. However, Taxmantoo was making a projection, and as far as I recall, no one on this forum has demanded smoke-free ships. For the most part there has been a high level of tolerance and give and take.

 

Ahah! Well, I hereby demand a smoke free environment!!!! I don't want to smell it, smell like it, and endanger my precious health!

It's only fair. Give the smokers a decent place to smoke and I will be happy to smell fresh air all the day and night long!:)

[Trevor Fountain]

But guns are not relevant to smoking on balconies, are they?

 

Hmm, it's taken a long time, but maybe there is a 'smoking gun'. :p

[SteveH2508]

Ahah! Well, I hereby demand a smoke free environment!!!! I don't want to smell it, smell like it, and endanger my precious health!

It's only fair. Give the smokers a decent place to smoke and I will be happy to smell fresh air all the day and night long!:)

 

And therein lies the rub...

 

Cruise Lines please read, mark, inwardly digest and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

 

Most of us reasonable smokers will go with the rules provided:

1. We are treated like the paying passengers we are.

2. the area is clearly marked so we do not get the theatrical, faux coughing, hand waving, 'holier than thou' histrionics from those who cannot read, for indulging in an allowed activity.

 

There needs to be a suitable indoor location provided for smokers for the times when the outside decks are closed due to weather.

[sail7seas]

Neither is the legality of smoking on the balcony.

 

Legality is a matter of obligations imposed by laws which are enacted by governments and overseen by a judicial system. The U.S. government has very little power over foreign registered ships sailing in foreign waters and would never legislate the act of smoking on a cruise ship balcony other than maybe while docked at an American port.

 

HAL has the power to impose their own rules on their own ships as they see fit to enhance the well being of their passengers and increase the profits to their shareholders. That has absolutely nothing to do with smoking being "legal" . It is simply implementing a corporate policy.

 

 

 

Actually, all governments around the world have the ultimate power over cruise ships when it comes to calling at their ports. They can refuse permission.

 

Where would all these ships go their major ports said No Entry? :eek:

 

That is not likely to happen because HAL permits smoking on verandahs but it is pertinent to point out governments can exert high pressure on cruise ships.

 

[albingirl]

And therein lies the rub...

 

Cruise Lines please read, mark, inwardly digest and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

 

Most of us reasonable smokers will go with the rules provided:

1. We are treated like the paying passengers we are.

2. the area is clearly marked so we do not get the theatrical, faux coughing, hand waving, 'holier than thou' histrionics from those who cannot read, for indulging in an allowed activity.

 

There needs to be a suitable indoor location provided for smokers for the times when the outside decks are closed due to weather.

 

Perfect! Thank you.

[sail7seas]

Verandah smokers..... a question, if you don't mind.

 

I have read on these forums about 'faux coughing' and wonder, if you are smoking on your verandah, and a neighbor starts coughing how do you decide if it is faux or truly physically disturbing to that person? Some coughs are involuntary and cannot be suppressed if the person is exposed to an irritant that bothers them.

 

 

[albingirl]

Verandah smokers..... a question, if you don't mind.

 

I have read on these forums about 'faux coughing' and wonder, if you are smoking on your verandah, and a neighbor starts coughing how do you decide if it is faux or truly physically disturbing to that person? Some coughs are involuntary and cannot be suppressed if the person is exposed to an irritant that bothers them.

 

 

 

Well, I don't really think it's up to us to decide. A smoker usually has a phellmy (sic) cough, but who knows. On our recent 42 day cruise, there were zero smokers near our verandah, heaven. But, the smokers really need a decent venue in which to enjoy their vice, and they really don't have that right now on the ships. Time for Holland America to make provisions for them. They have all rights to enjoy their smokes. It's legal, after all.

[sail7seas]

I wasn't referring to a smoker's cough. I was asking about the 'faux coughing' some smokers seem to describe people who cough when around second hand smoke..... as in a verandah neighbor. I've read here about 'faux coughing' and hand waving and wonder how they know it's a 'faux cough' on the next door verandah?

[Lizzie68]

Ahah! Well, I hereby demand a smoke free environment!!!! I don't want to smell it, smell like it, and endanger my precious health!

It's only fair. Give the smokers a decent place to smoke and I will be happy to smell fresh air all the day and night long!:)

 

I believe that's been said a few dozen times before in this thread.;)

[albingirl]

I wasn't referring to a smoker's cough. I was asking about the 'faux coughing' some smokers seem to describe people who cough when around second hand smoke..... as in a verandah neighbor. I've read here about 'faux coughing' and hand waving and wonder how they know it's a 'faux cough' on the next door verandah?

 

Yes, I agree that is something that I don't understand. But, since I don't smoke, I really don't pay attention to the theater and I bet you don't either. It is what it is. We can only hope for some change.

[richwmn]

I wasn't referring to a smoker's cough. I was asking about the 'faux coughing' some smokers seem to describe people who cough when around second hand smoke..... as in a verandah neighbor. I've read here about 'faux coughing' and hand waving and wonder how they know it's a 'faux cough' on the next door verandah?

 

Yes, I agree that is something that I don't understand. But, since I don't smoke, I really don't pay attention to the theater and I bet you don't either. It is what it is. We can only hope for some change.

 

There are some people who deliberately(?) walk thru designated smoking areas and immediately start a "cough" that is quite noticeably fake. They also generally wave their hands to push away whatever smoke is around them. Some times this is also accompanied with comments. Again, this is in the areas where smoking is allowed and the non smokers could avoid.

[albingirl]

There are some people who deliberately(?) walk thru designated smoking areas and immediately start a "cough" that is quite noticeably fake. They also generally wave their hands to push away whatever smoke is around them. Some times this is also accompanied with comments. Again, this is in the areas where smoking is allowed and the non smokers could avoid.

 

You are correct. Easily avoided. I have no idea about why I follow this thread. Maybe because my brother died of cancer, I don't know. Ah, I will withdraw now from the discussion since it is way too much, really. He didn't die from smoking though. It's just a tough subject that I wish the cruiselines would address.

[legalslave]

Verandah smokers..... a question, if you don't mind.

 

I have read on these forums about 'faux coughing' and wonder, if you are smoking on your verandah, and a neighbor starts coughing how do you decide if it is faux or truly physically disturbing to that person? Some coughs are involuntary and cannot be suppressed if the person is exposed to an irritant that bothers them.

 

 

 

Sail, I have personally seen many times the faux coughing and hand waving. I smoke an E Cigarette. There is no nicotine in it, just a little liquid mint. Passengers on the balcony next to ours started the faux cough and making comments out loud about how my smoke was bothering them. I couldn't take it any longer, stuck my head and E cigarette around the divider and put the tip on my nose. I didn't say a word but they knew they embarrassed themselves. Never heard them out there again! There are times in the casino I don't even have it on, just hold it in my hand and people start the coughing and hand waving, in the smoking section.

 

Diane

[sapper1]

You are correct. Easily avoided. I have no idea about why I follow this thread. Maybe because my brother died of cancer, I don't know. Ah, I will withdraw now from the discussion since it is way too much, really. He didn't die from smoking though. It's just a tough subject that I wish the cruiselines would address.

 

Neither my father nor my grandfather died from smoking either. They both died from COPD caused by smoking. It was not not pretty to watch.

Edited January 7, 2015 by sapper1

[sammiedawg]

You are correct. Easily avoided. I have no idea about why I follow this thread. Maybe because my brother died of cancer, I don't know. Ah, I will withdraw now from the discussion since it is way too much, really. He didn't die from smoking though. It's just a tough subject that I wish the cruiselines would address.

 

I'm sorry but I disagree the smoking areas are easily avoided. The wind blows smoke into non smoking areas like the pool and promenade decks. Smoke bleeds from the casino into adjacent non smoking areas such as the coffee bar, library, exploration cafe and other rooms depending on the age and design of the ship. The problem is most disgusting on Holland America's older ships where HVAC systems don't work very well. As the percentage of smokers increase the problem grows. Smokers are kidding themselves that smoke remains in the designated areas.

[Lizzie68]

Sail, I have personally seen many times the faux coughing and hand waving. I smoke an E Cigarette. There is no nicotine in it, just a little liquid mint. Passengers on the balcony next to ours started the faux cough and making comments out loud about how my smoke was bothering them. I couldn't take it any longer, stuck my head and E cigarette around the divider and put the tip on my nose. I didn't say a word but they knew they embarrassed themselves. Never heard them out there again! There are times in the casino I don't even have it on, just hold it in my hand and people start the coughing and hand waving, in the smoking section.

 

Diane

 

I've seen this faux coughing, but not often. I am surprised that your e-cigarette does not contain nicotine however, as I recently saw a report on our local TV (dealing with flavoured e-cigs attracting kids to smoking) that they do. They do make a lot of vapour and I must admit I don't like being caught in it! HAL apparently has a rule about e-cigs but on our last cruise there was a couple that regularly strolled through the shopping area puffing away on theirs, as if to challenge authority, and no one did a thing about it. I think as means to trying to quit, they have a value.

[Drico]

I'm sorry but I disagree the smoking areas are easily avoided. The wind blows smoke into non smoking areas like the pool and promenade decks. Smoke bleeds from the casino into adjacent non smoking areas such as the coffee bar, library, exploration cafe and other rooms depending on the age and design of the ship. The problem is most disgusting on Holland America's older ships where HVAC systems don't work very well. As the percentage of smokers increase the problem grows. Smokers are kidding themselves that smoke remains in the designated areas.

 

I've read similar reports since RCI banned smoking on their balconies. If/when HAL bans smoking on balconies the complainers here will start on the casino and other designated smoking areas.

[jimmy2x]

I've seen this faux coughing, but not often. I am surprised that your e-cigarette does not contain nicotine however, as I recently saw a report on our local TV (dealing with flavoured e-cigs attracting kids to smoking) that they do. They do make a lot of vapour and I must admit I don't like being caught in it! HAL apparently has a rule about e-cigs but on our last cruise there was a couple that regularly strolled through the shopping area puffing away on theirs, as if to challenge authority, and no one did a thing about it. I think as means to trying to quit, they have a value.

 

I suspect that virtually all of the pre-filled ones sold in stores such as 7-11 have some amount of nicotine in them. OTH most of the long-time users of this type of product either purchase them on-line or in dedicated stores. The liquid used to "vape" is available in a wide variety of flavors and with nicotine amounts ranging from 0-36mg. Personally, I use app. 18mg. It has helped me cut down from about 30 cigarettes/day to about 3 per day.

 

I make an effort to be as discreet as possible and have no urge to be in people's face with it. The stories about them on TV are, of course, designed to be as scary as possible and is akin to getting your "news" from the Daily Mail.

[sail7seas]

Do the wide variety of vapors have a scent? Legalslave mentioned 'liquid mint'..... can I smell that if I am sitting beside someone smoking that vapor? Are any or all scent free?

 

I agree it is inappropriate for faux cough or hand waving in a designated smoking area.

What about the 'real cough' from the neighboring verandah. How can you determine whether that person is truly being bothered from the smoke? Answer, you really cannot. We didn't choose to give up use of our verandah for a whole week on Eurodam. We were forced to as we were so bothered from neighboring verandah smoke. How would you know if our cough was 'faux' as suggested here?