Medical emergencies on the rise?

[tanzer22pilot]

In most cases, a SAR helicopter will not be able to land on the ship, so it would be a winch operation. This is extremely dangerous for both the crew and the patient, so it is only done when the patient's condition doesn't warrant the time needed to divert to a port. Private lifeflight pilots are generally not trained to do at sea winch evacuations, or even landings (there is the motion of the vessel while attempting to land, obstructions, and the ever present updraft from the exhausts (not to mention the CO2 in the exhaust which is bad for both pilot and engines), so most of this is restricted to government or military pilots (USCG, for instance), and while the Coasties are always ready to go out, they try to limit it to real, real, emergencies. I know the USCG is considering charging for these evacuations, and most smaller countries already do. You don't think the cruise line will swallow the cost of a helicopter evacuation do you? Nope, that will be passed to the patient.

 

 

The level of inaccuracy of your statement in bold may be able to be calculated by future technology.

[chengkp75]

The level of inaccuracy of your statement in bold may be able to be calculated by future technology.

 

Huh? If an aircraft is hovering in or near an exhaust stream, both the pilot and the engines of the helicopter are taking in reduced oxygen and increased CO2, which will adversely affect the performance of both.

Edited September 27, 2014 by chengkp75

[tanzer22pilot]

Huh? If an aircraft is hovering in or near an exhaust stream, both the pilot and the engines of the helicopter are taking in reduced oxygen and increased CO2, which will adversely affect the performance of both.

 

Over 20000 hours of flight time says you would have to fly your helicopter down in the ship's smokestack to make any difference. In case you noticed, they do not fly the helicopter inside the exhaust stack.

[lattelady]

After some sporadic cruises while raising kids, the kids are gone and I have been on four cruises this year. Three of them had some sort of medical evacuation that I was aware of.

 

1. Feb 2014, Navigator, watched someone get taken off on a stretcher in Cozumel during our regular stop there.

 

2. Apr 2014, Navigator, on one of our sea days headed south to Roatan, while near Cancun, we were approached by a Mexican Naval boat. We stopped. They came alongside and a Mexican family departed. The 16 yo boy had appendicitis. We later heard that surgery went well.

 

3. Sept 2014, Navigator, as mentioned already, we came back to Galveston after departing to have a passenger taken off. I heard the Coast Guard was supposed to meet us and take the passenger (rumor, not sure if true) but they didn't and we came all the way in and pulled up by the Medical Center. The captain later explained why (at the Captain's Corner) but I don't recall the explanation. I also heard varying reports on the medical condition. Some said it was an elevator injury. Others said a heart attack.

 

So my only non-Nav cruise last year was the only one that didn't have a medical evac of some sort (that I saw!). I don't expect all future cruises to be like this and I'm thankful that RCI cares about our health and safety.

[chengkp75]

Over 20000 hours of flight time says you would have to fly your helicopter down in the ship's smokestack to make any difference. In case you noticed, they do not fly the helicopter inside the exhaust stack.

 

While I don't have your flight experience, I have worked with USCG and other helicopter operators who will have the ship change heading so that the exhaust plume is not blowing towards the aft located helicopter winch pads, so there must be some concern there.

[Miss Vickie]

All USCG medical evacuations are done by SAR personnel, using SAR equipment (like the Hercules aircraft that dropped the blood to the Carnival Miracle). It's the blanket term for what they do. While your hospital helipad may be smaller than the ones on the ship, they are designed without obstructions above the helipad for quite some distance, unlike ships, which have bulwarks, railings, sports nets, or superstructure close by. Also, most lifeflight helicopters have smaller rotor diameter than the long range SAR helicopters operated by the Coast Guard or military, so the obstruction free zone needs to be bigger on ships. I don't think I've ever heard of a USCG helicopter landing on any ship for a medical evacuation. Recently, I heard about a Canadian Forces helo landing on a cruise ship, but this was a smaller Huey type, if I remember right.

 

On our January 2004 sailing we had a helicopter medievac. We were doing a sail by of Montserrat when the captain interrupted our 360 half way through and headed back to Guadeloupe. The chopper, surprisingly, did land - we got a lesson in how they recess everything into the deck to prepare the helipad, and it took a long time for the landing. My recollection is the rotors never stopped turning once on board - they carefully loaded up and took the passenger and his wife back to Guadeloupe.

[FLACRUISER99]

Unless someone has actual statistical evidence that indicates a rise in the number of such incidents, I doubt that the anecdotal evidence offered by a limited number of cruisers is sufficient to show that such a trend actually exists. Before we speculate on the reasons for such a rise, we ought to be sure that there actually is such an increase.

I agree 100%.

[chengkp75]

On our January 2004 sailing we had a helicopter medievac. We were doing a sail by of Montserrat when the captain interrupted our 360 half way through and headed back to Guadeloupe. The chopper, surprisingly, did land - we got a lesson in how they recess everything into the deck to prepare the helipad, and it took a long time for the landing. My recollection is the rotors never stopped turning once on board - they carefully loaded up and took the passenger and his wife back to Guadeloupe.

 

When a helicopter is able to land (small enough rotor diameter), they will normally not shut down, and will actually keep some down force on the rotor to keep the helicopter planted on the moving deck.

[John&LaLa]

Independence TA in May did NOT divert to Nassau for a medical emergency. We were originally scheduled to go to Nassau but a few weeks out the itinerary was changed to San Juan instead. This was because Customs & Immigration was going to require a full several hour long check of everyone if we stopped in Nassau before going to St Thomas. We DID, however, turn around and go back to St Maarten several hours after we had left to the Atlantic crossing. A passenger had a stroke and there was time to get her back for treatment.

 

I have read about medical emergencies on cruises since I first found cruise critic. The most Alpha, Alpha, Alpha calls that I have heard on a cruise were on the Transtatlantic, with passengers taken off by ambulance at each of our ports along the way. This seems quite common with Transatlantics given the demographic who is most able to take those cruises.

 

My bad, I must have misunderstood my wife

 

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[wander2beaches]

Hey MattInFLL~we are on the Majesty of the Seas also as I type. I was wondering what happened....what type of medical emergency. This is our 14th cruise and we've been diverted 3 times due to medical emergencies.

[ls4977]

We were on the Navigator two weeks ago, and there was a medical emergency that caused us to return to Galveston about 7 hours after we departed. It may have been because we were at sea for the first two days, and the situation couldn't wait until we reached our first port.

 

Because we returned to a US port, they had to shut down the casino and shops for several hours until we were back in international waters again. During the Captains Corner later in the cruise, someone asked the captain how much the evacuation cost RCI in extra fuel and lost revenue but he declined to answer.

 

This was the first time in 40 cruises where we've been aboard a ship that diverted its course due to a medical emergency.

 

I was also on this cruise. I wonder if if is a "business" decision on diverting back to Galveston vs helicopter evacuation. Can the cost of turning the boat around be charged to trip insurance? Who bears the cost? The Patient? RCL?

[Margy23]

I remember being on a cruise some years ago (probably on Monarch) where the captain announced we were going to divert to Carnival's out island so a crewmember with acute appendicitis could be rescued by helicopter. The memory that stays with me is the discussion at our dinner table about their concern for a crewmember - it made us comfortable about the care we could expect as passengers in an emergency.

 

Margy

 

.

[tanzer22pilot]

While I don't have your flight experience, I have worked with USCG and other helicopter operators who will have the ship change heading so that the exhaust plume is not blowing towards the aft located helicopter winch pads, so there must be some concern there.

 

It has nothing to do with the "exhaust plume". They do it so they land into the wind same as an aircraft carrier does when lanching and retrieving aircraft.

[John&LaLa]

BTW, Freedom just left PC, and just turned around to off load a medical emergency. Coincidence, don't know.

 

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[wieslaw]

BTW, Freedom just left PC, and just turned around to off load a medical emergency. Coincidence, don't know.

 

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Hi,

I guess Freedom has its share of medical emergencies....

 

We were on Freedom first part of dec last year.

There was an emergency at Coco Cay ..... I heard that a helicopter had to take someone.

After we left Coco Cay, to St. Thomas ...... few hours later a medical emergency required the ship to go to Nassau.

There was not enough time to make up so the next stop was San Juan ( some people were not happy).

When we started to leave St. Maarten ( still in port) ..... the ship stopped and went back ..... anothe medical emergency.

Edited September 28, 2014 by wieslaw

[swooldri]

Does anyone else feel that diverting the ships for medical emergencies is on the rise? Freedom diverted to Nassau yesterday and had to skip St Thomas due to the delay. They are now in San Juan for the evening before heading off to St Martin tomorrow. I feel for those involved, but it seems to be commonplace these days. My wife was on the Independence TA this May and they were diverted to Nassau as well. Does Nassau have world class medical care that I don't know about. :rolleyes: BTW, they have a helipad, why don't they fly them off and stay on course? I doubt it was included just for folks to have a sail away party. Anyway, can we hear from others who have had to divert in the past year. Or tell me I'm insensitive if you'd like.

 

Just to set the record straight. I was also on the May Independence TA and our ship was diverted back to St Martin not Nassau.:rolleyes:

[LLD]

I've been on many many cruises over the years, well over 40 and have experienced a few times where the ship had to divert to another port due to a medical emergency or where we were delayed in port due to an emergency. Do I remember the number of times? No. But I can tell you that it was maybe only 3 or 4..and I can tell you that I was concerned for the person and families who were affected and prayed that the person and family would be alright.

 

Food for Thought: We can all sit here and say that if that happened on our cruise and our vacation was "ruined" because we couldn't stop at a port we wanted to or that we were "inconvenienced" because we had to sit in port or skip a port and go to another port...ask yourself this--what if it was YOU or a LOVED ONE who had the emergency??? Would you want to be airlifted into a helicopter over a big cruise ship in the middle of the ocean?? Would you want to be left in some horrible hospital on an island that was not equipped to handle such emergencies or where nobody spoke your language just because it was the nearest port??? I think your answers would be NO.

[RDC1]

It has nothing to do with the "exhaust plume". They do it so they land into the wind same as an aircraft carrier does when lanching and retrieving aircraft.

 

Not if they did what he said. He was talking about hovering not landing. He also indicated that the ship turned so the stack exhaust would not flow over the back of the ship. That would indicate turning so the ship would have a cross wind over the ship. Clearly having a cross wind with a helicopter as well as the forward motion of the ship would be a more complex situation so there would have to be a reason for it.

 

If he had said turning the ship into the wind so that it flowed over the back then your would have the helicopter landing situation requiring less forward speed and no cross wind for landing.

 

Now I would doubt that it is a CO2 issue, as much as buffeting from the thermal effect of the exhaust which is the only thing I can think of that would make one be willing to deal with the complexity of a cross wind when dealing with a hover situation over a moving ship.

 

I do know that hot air turbulence an important consideration dealing with oil plat form operations. The following is an extraction from a manual I have on the subject.

 

8 Hot air turbulence

Hot exhaust emission from turbine generators and other types of machinery on the installation, may cause

turbulence. Hot air turbulence is less predictable, and may be a serious risk to helicopter operations.

Hot air flow, combined with a sudden change in air temperature, may have the following two major effects on

the helicopter performance:

• possible momentary stalling of helicopter engines due to sudden air density changes through the

turbinecompressors;

• significantly reduced helicopter lift capacity.

The risk of compressor stalling varies with helicopter type. In most cases it increases significantly with a

momentary temperature increase of 3 °C, or more. The 3 °C isotherm shall therefore be at least 15 m above

the helideck. Correct sizing and location of exhaust stacks relative to the location of the helideck is

imperative. The position of the 3 °C isotherm shall be verified through the CFD analysis.

The presence of hot air flow in the vicinity of the helideck is a major risk factor to helicopter operations, and

shall be given full attention.

 

 

 

I would expect hot exhaust from the ship would pose similar risks.

Edited September 29, 2014 by RDC1

[John&LaLa]

Just to set the record straight. I was also on the May Independence TA and our ship was diverted back to St Martin not Nassau.:rolleyes:

 

All ready apologized, but thanks for pointing it out again. :banghead:

 

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[Tagsalong]

On Freedom now. Just announced another medical emergency and we are diverting to Nassau. No Labadee tomorrow. We will be in Nassau from 1:30 pm to 7:00 pm today then on to Grand Cayman.

[John&LaLa]

I've been on many many cruises over the years, well over 40 and have experienced a few times where the ship had to divert to another port due to a medical emergency or where we were delayed in port due to an emergency. Do I remember the number of times? No. But I can tell you that it was maybe only 3 or 4..and I can tell you that I was concerned for the person and families who were affected and prayed that the person and family would be alright.

 

Food for Thought: We can all sit here and say that if that happened on our cruise and our vacation was "ruined" because we couldn't stop at a port we wanted to or that we were "inconvenienced" because we had to sit in port or skip a port and go to another port...ask yourself this--what if it was YOU or a LOVED ONE who had the emergency??? Would you want to be airlifted into a helicopter over a big cruise ship in the middle of the ocean?? Would you want to be left in some horrible hospital on an island that was not equipped to handle such emergencies or where nobody spoke your language just because it was the nearest port??? I think your answers would be NO.

 

I really don't think anyone said they were inconvenienced or their trip was ruined. I was just pointing out that it seems more common the last few years. But that was just my perception.

 

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[Clarea]

On Freedom now. Just announced another medical emergency and we are diverting to Nassau. No Labadee tomorrow. We will be in Nassau from 1:30 pm to 7:00 pm today then on to Grand Cayman.

Good luck to you and the sick passenger.

[tanzer22pilot]

Not if they did what he said. He was talking about hovering not landing. He also indicated that the ship turned so the stack exhaust would not flow over the back of the ship. That would indicate turning so the ship would have a cross wind over the ship. Clearly having a cross wind with a helicopter as well as the forward motion of the ship would be a more complex situation so there would have to be a reason for it.

 

If he had said turning the ship into the wind so that it flowed over the back then your would have the helicopter landing situation requiring less forward speed and no cross wind for landing.

 

Now I would doubt that it is a CO2 issue, as much as buffeting from the thermal effect of the exhaust which is the only thing I can think of that would make one be willing to deal with the complexity of a cross wind when dealing with a hover situation over a moving ship.

 

I do know that hot air turbulence an important consideration dealing with oil plat form operations. The following is an extraction from a manual I have on the subject.

 

8 Hot air turbulence

Hot exhaust emission from turbine generators and other types of machinery on the installation, may cause

turbulence. Hot air turbulence is less predictable, and may be a serious risk to helicopter operations.

Hot air flow, combined with a sudden change in air temperature, may have the following two major effects on

the helicopter performance:

• possible momentary stalling of helicopter engines due to sudden air density changes through the

turbinecompressors;

• significantly reduced helicopter lift capacity.

The risk of compressor stalling varies with helicopter type. In most cases it increases significantly with a

momentary temperature increase of 3 °C, or more. The 3 °C isotherm shall therefore be at least 15 m above

the helideck. Correct sizing and location of exhaust stacks relative to the location of the helideck is

imperative. The position of the 3 °C isotherm shall be verified through the CFD analysis.

The presence of hot air flow in the vicinity of the helideck is a major risk factor to helicopter operations, and

shall be given full attention.

 

 

 

I would expect hot exhaust from the ship would pose similar risks.

 

You nailed it with the crosswind. With the amount of the heat created on an oil rig then THAT would be a factor.

[tlund]

Hi,

I guess Freedom has its share of medical emergencies....

 

We were on Freedom first part of dec last year.

There was an emergency at Coco Cay ..... I heard that a helicopter had to take someone.

After we left Coco Cay, to St. Thomas ...... few hours later a medical emergency required the ship to go to Nassau.

There was not enough time to make up so the next stop was San Juan ( some people were not happy).

When we started to leave St. Maarten ( still in port) ..... the ship stopped and went back ..... anothe medical emergency.

 

We were on that same cruise. Having never been on a cruise with any medical evacuations, this was a big oddity for us. Not only did all of those medical evacuations occur, the ice skating show had to be cancelled on that cruise because one of the skaters was injured and had to be sent back to Florida for care. That was a very crazy cruise. Made the best of it, though.

[matj2000]

I heard on the HAL Eurodam trans-atlantic cruise last year the ship had to turn around and go back 15 times....