Will you lie about being sick on cruise questionnaire? - Ebola

[TerReuv]

I think it's interesting that people keep citing the current number of fatalities and infections of this disease when defending their "stay calm" stance (as well as the low risk of airborne transmission).

Yesterday I read the CDC believes the number of infected could reach one million by January. The vaccine(s) will start trials in January, anyone want to try it first? It's a voluntary research program and will be offered in many different areas, but especially in Africa. The current argument is over whether or not to include a placebo vaccine with such a deadly disease.

While I do agree there is no reason to panic, I do think a very high degree of vigilance is warranted globally. No one can deny our medical system is straining with our aged population and we are in a severe doctor and nurse shortage. It wouldn't take long to overwhelm the country's medical resources with even a small outbreak considering there are only four hospitals prepared to take these patients at this time.

 

 

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Straight from the CDC website... "◦Without additional interventions or changes in community behavior, CDC estimates that by January 20, 2015, there will be a total of approximately 550,000 Ebola cases in Liberia and Sierra Leone or 1.4 million if corrections for underreporting are made."

 

If you are going to throw out these numbers, please make sure you are accurately reporting what was said. Note that the CDC is talking about only in Liberia or Sierra Leone! Not in the US or even globally. Not exactly, the fear statement you threw out there.

 

Also note the first words... "Without additional interventions or changes in community behavior". That means if nothing changes where the outbreak is happening (again, not in the US). I sure don't think that they are sitting around doing nothing, so pretty sure things can and will change in Liberia or Sierra Leone.

[Midwestgal]

I don't know, I've filled in one of the little health questionnaires every single time I've gotten on a cruise, RCI, Carnival or Norwegian...

 

I'm scratching my head on this one. We've haven't since 2000:eek:

[TerReuv]

hush. You will be branded as a hysterical fear mongerer

 

Which is exactly what you would call someone who only gives part of something to prove a point. As you can see from my previous post, the poster only reported a small piece of the information from the CDC and they left out a pretty importanta part!

 

What would you call them?

[aaron3219]

So if you think you may have ebola, and you exhibit the symptoms (i.e. you are pretty much too sick to stand upright), and you know that ebola kills 90% of its victims.....you are going to lie about it and go on a cruise??? :eek:

 

I would be heading to a hospital myself, but that's just me.

 

Only a 10% survival rate? Screw it I'm going on my cruise :D

 

It sickens me as to how selfish people are. I am exhibiting symptoms of Ebola. Oh well, probably nothing, I'll go on my cruise anyway! Forget everyone else!

[snorkelman]

Yesterday I read the CDC believes the number of infected could reach one million by January.

 

^^ he didn't say where.

 

...CDC estimates that by January 20, 2015, there will be a total of approximately 550,000 Ebola cases in Liberia and Sierra Leone or 1.4 million if corrections for underreporting are made."

 

So, you agree that Cruise life's comment may actually be on the low end, correct? It may be 1.4 million. Sure in Africa, but how the heck do you think those in the USA got it? The first known case of Ebola in Nigeria was in a traveler exposed in Liberia in July 2014. Exponential growth also creates increased risk to the USA.

 

Sure, they may get a handle on this, and I am sure we all hope they do, but your post is straining at trying to poo-poo the risk. There is a risk. The questionnaire asks questions to further reduce the risk.

[TerReuv]

^^ he didn't say where.

 

 

 

So, you agree that Cruise life's comment may actually be on the low end, correct? It may be 1.4 million. Sure in Africa, but how the heck do you think those in the USA got it? The first known case of Ebola in Nigeria was in a traveler exposed in Liberia in July 2014. Exponential growth also creates increased risk to the USA.

 

Sure, they may get a handle on this, and I am sure we all hope they do, but your post is straining at trying to poo-poo the risk. There is a risk. The questionnaire asks questions to further reduce the risk.

 

Not poo-pooing the risk. Just stating that the previous poster only quoted part of the CDC's statement. There is a risk, but very minimal for those of use that are not travelling to Africa. Those in the US got it from being in Africa or being in direct contact at the hospital from someone that was in Africa. Also, the CDC mentions there wil lbe a total of 550,000 Ebola cases, with the possibility of it being more due to underreporting.

 

Cruise Life is being a fear monger by only reporting a partial statement. I have no fears of being infected by Ebola and would cruise sooner than I am in a heartbeat!

[ramses6161]

Selam dünya

[Cruise life]

This disease has only been studied for what, 38 years, in Africa? Look how far it has progressed in that short time. Beware (not afraid or panic-stricken), protect yourself, and stay informed. I have not cancelled either of my upcoming cruises, BTW.

I do not feel fear or panic. I do want to read everything that is put out for our review from our trusted professional infectious disease specialists; I apologize if I did not cite the actual source or include that the million are expected only to be in Africa- does this really matter?

One (including the CDC) can only speculate if the U.S. and other countries will be able to safely handle the possible influx of those wanting to escape from infected regions as Mr. Duncan did.

 

 

 

 

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[Jana60]

Great advice, except i would never use a hand sanitizer that would compromise my bodies auto immune system killing bacteria it uses to contain the bad germs.

 

Here's hoping your body does not have an "auto" immune system. The term autoimmune would refer to a disease process which causes a person's body to produce antibodies against one or more of their own body's tissues which is not a desirable event. Examples of diseases in which this occurs would be rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, Sjogren's etc....

Excessive use of antibiotics inside the body leads to development of resistant organisms but cleansing of pathologic organisms from the surface of the body does not. Cleansing germs from the surface of the body would usually only be a problem is if the cleansing agent caused irritation and therefore a break in the most important barrier to infection of the human body... the skin!

 

 

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[jujurasc1083]

For that matter, germs are not pathologic but rather "pathogenic." [emoji10]

[Little Elm]

Maybe the cruise lines should start taking temperatures at check in. Like they are now doing at some airports.

[Jana60]

For that matter, germs are not pathologic but rather "pathogenic." [emoji10]

 

Definition of Pathologic organism -any microscopic life form, from virus to nematode, capable of causing disease.

 

"Pathogenic organism" is not a phrase that is used in medicine. When the term "pathogenic" is used the specific organism is named, for instance "pathogenic bacteria".

 

Since I was using the term "germ" (which is not really a medical term at all) in a very general way referring to any microorganism causing disease the term pathologic was more correct.

 

Its not a big deal but since you were obviously concerned about the difference in that you were attempting to correct me I thought I'd let you know.

 

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Edited October 23, 2014 by Jana60

[kingoftheicedragons]

Carnival has revised its "public health questionnaire" to specifically ask about Ebola.

 

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RSUIKz_J29E/VEPtTklb54I/AAAAAAAAVe8/WmzqcjdcooY/s640/PCL%2520Health%2520Form1.jpg

 

 

In the past LOTS of people lied on those forms, not giving a hoot about getting others sick, and selfishly not wanting their own cruise ruined.

 

Imagine if you don't work with Ebola patients, but still exhibit these symptoms.

 

FYI the symptoms of Ebola include

 

Fever

Severe headache

Muscle pain

Weakness

Diarrhea

Vomiting

Abdominal (stomach) pain

Unexplained hemorrhage (bleeding or bruising)

 

So, let's say you have a fever, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and maybe some weakness. Clearly those are all symptoms of Ebola. However, lots of people without Ebola also have those symptoms.

 

However, if you unwittingly contracted Ebola (let's say a few days before the cruise). This is possible, since many people fly to reach the port, and it is possible that someone may cough or sneeze on you.

 

So, if you board the ship, and if it turns out you lied, and your condition worsens and you decide to see the ship doctor and he sees even more tell-tale signs of Ebola, you may be putting yourself in a very serious situation.

 

As we have seen this past week, some foreign ports that cruises visit will refuse to allow a suspected Ebola patient off the ship. You may very well delay your own treatment by having lied on those forms and now being stuck on a cruise.

 

Imagine the compounded impact if it was a transatlantic (or other long) cruise.

 

I see several gaps in your argument here.

 

1) It is extremely unlikely that you would get Ebola from someone coughing or sneezing on you. Yes, it is possible, but you're much, much more likely to get the flu from coughs and sneezes than you would be to get Ebola. In fact, there are no known cases of Ebola that have been transmitted this way.

 

2) If you are exposed to Ebola on a flight, even if it's 2-3 days before your cruise, chances are you won't have a fever or any other symptom of Ebola before you get on the cruise ship. In fact, it can take 21 days before someone starts showing any symptoms at all. Therefore, answering no on the questionnaire would not be lying.

 

3) If you have not been in close contact with someone who is showing symptoms of Ebola, there is no reason to believe that you have Ebola, and thinking that you may is just crazy.

 

4) Are you saying that anyone who has flown anywhere in the US, or come into contact with anyone who has flown, should answer that yes, they have potentially come into contact with someone with Ebola? Using that argument, just by standing in line to check in for a cruise would put you in that category. See what a slippery slope your argument ultimately creates?

Edited October 23, 2014 by kingoftheicedragons

[Cruise life]

The NBC cameraman that contracted/recovered from ebola says he has no idea where he got it from..."that's the million dollar question" were his exact words. He did travel with transport personnel and covered burials. He did receive blood from a survivor. Hopefully we will slow transmission and develop improved standardized treatments to reduce mortality while we run vaccine trials before the next big thing surfaces.

As far as germicidal hand cleansers/foams, they are being widely used in hospitals and medical offices as well as schools, malls and other places. If they were positively known to significantly reduce resistance to infection, why are they not banned? There must not be enough valid research on this or we would see it being pulled off the shelves. I'd rather someone use a waterless hand cleanser than not wash their hands at all.

 

 

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[elliair]

Maybe the cruise lines should start taking temperatures at check in. Like they are now doing at some airports.

 

Really? They're in the medical business? I would protest this, it would be a deal breaker for me. This is why I avoid flying anywhere.

 

P.S. I can imagine the long lines, the hold ups, people angry at the start of their cruise. then what does Carniva/Princess, etc., do with passengers who have a slight temperature high or low?

Edited October 23, 2014 by elliair

[springs741]

As far as germicidal hand cleansers/foams, they are being widely used in hospitals and medical offices as well as schools, malls and other places. If they were positively known to significantly reduce resistance to infection, why are they not banned? There must not be enough valid research on this or we would see it being pulled off the shelves. I'd rather someone use a waterless hand cleanser than not wash their hands at all.

 

 

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I agree with you that I would rather someone use a waterless hand cleanser than not wash their hands. However, hand sanitizer, as they are often called, do not kill everything.

 

A perfect example is clostridium difficile, which healthcare workers commonly call C-diff. I see family and friends come out of C-diff patients rooms everyday and use the dispenser on the wall and think they are clean. I remind them politely to wash their hands as well but can't say what I really want to say because of patient confidentiality rules. Oh and FYI the spores can live up to 5 months on surfaces.

 

Hand cleaner when that is all that is available and then wash your hands with soap and water people.

[kerryincork]

It would not be very effective to use temperature as a means to vet passengers as there are numerous reasons why a person's temp might be elevated that have nothing to do with Ebola/flue/noro etc. For example: tooth ache, ovulation, menstruation, etc. Not to mention those naturally occurring people who have a higher/lower average body temperature.

I personally don't think it's anyone's business but my own whether I'm menstruating or ovulating or not. I certainly don think a woman should have to prove the above to be allowed on a cruise.

[travler27]

My temperature goes up just from reading these threads. :p

[Cruise life]

I agree with you that I would rather someone use a waterless hand cleanser than not wash their hands. However, hand sanitizer, as they are often called, do not kill everything.

 

A perfect example is clostridium difficile, which healthcare workers commonly call C-diff. I see family and friends come out of C-diff patients rooms everyday and use the dispenser on the wall and think they are clean. I remind them politely to wash their hands as well but can't say what I really want to say because of patient confidentiality rules. Oh and FYI the spores can live up to 5 months on surfaces.

 

Hand cleaner when that is all that is available and then wash your hands with soap and water people.

 

 

Eww C. Diff. I think I am going to be sick...that smell comes back to haunt me. I haven't worked in several years, but some things just never go away.

Should I even mention the newest suspected case in NY? The ER doc went bowling the night before he called for help. The news made a point not to induce fear by saying it could be salmonella or the flu. The guy just got back from Liberia helping with Doctor's without Borders.

I find it fascinating to follow and I can't wait to hear how they track possible exposures, adapt treatments and discover more about the disease so we can manage it better.

ITA that if soap and water is there, one should always use it over a hand cleanser. I have been more vigilant about not touching surfaces in bathrooms or public doors. It would be soo easy to touch a dirty phone or tv control or ...

And speaking of confidentiality, how come all these infected people have their names plastered all over the news? Only one patient in GA is anonymous. HIPPA at work.

 

 

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[Cruise life]

My temperature goes up just from reading these threads. :p

 

 

Aww, some of us just thrive on this stuff! Mostly medical and retired medical. Is it in your state yet? It's easy to feel safe when it's far away. My state is one of the four that has specialized beds for ebola. I also live 20 or so miles from a major shipping port that within the last 30 days had seven ships from W Africa dock.

ITA, if it is causing you anxiety, don't watch it all day long on a background tv. Keep yourself informed, it's a natural antipyretic -fever reducer;)

 

 

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[DebJ14]

Eww C. Diff. I think I am going to be sick...that smell comes back to haunt me. I haven't worked in several years, but some things just never go away.

Should I even mention the newest suspected case in NY? The ER doc went bowling the night before he called for help. The news made a point not to induce fear by saying it could be salmonella or the flu. The guy just got back from Liberia helping with Doctor's without Borders.

I find it fascinating to follow and I can't wait to hear how they track possible exposures, adapt treatments and discover more about the disease so we can manage it better.

ITA that if soap and water is there, one should always use it over a hand cleanser. I have been more vigilant about not touching surfaces in bathrooms or public doors. It would be soo easy to touch a dirty phone or tv control or ...

And speaking of confidentiality, how come all these infected people have their names plastered all over the news? Only one patient in GA is anonymous. HIPPA at work.

 

 

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It is no longer a suspected case in NYC. The guy tested positive. Here we go again.