Royal Perspective

[RLK33853]

Well that is our review of the Royal - during the 10 days we had many changes of heart - we liked it, we didn't like it, two liked it, two didn't - three liked something, one didn't - well you get the picture. One thing that we hope came through loud and clear - there was nothing we hated about the ship. A lot of preconceived ideas went out the window once we experienced the ship ourselves.

 

Thus the obvious - reviews are subjective and no two people will always agree.

 

If anyone has any questions, we have our notes, the Patters, and deck plans and hopefully we can answer them. Please feel free to ask - and thanks for taking the time to read.

 

Ray, Ann, Dave & Cathy

[Candiaccruiser]

Many thanks for a wonderfully informative review.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Mom33]

Thank you for taking the time to share your experiences. :)

[Jasperdo]

Thank you for the nice, well balanced review.

[dmwnc1959]

Then as I say...it's all just conjecture...

 

 

'Conjecture' explains all large-ship, mass market new platforms built at Fincantieri, MeyerWerft, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, and STX France for AIDA Cruises, TUI, NCL, Princess, MSC Cruises, Royal Caribbean, and Holland-America - 21 new ships in all, across several parent companies and numerous brands, from four different shipyards.

 

 

 

One thing that we hope came through loud and clear - there was nothing we hated about the ship. A lot of preconceived ideas went out the window once we experienced the ship ourselves.

 

 

And to the OP: my apologies for interrupting your wonderful review, and your patience in our other little 'discussion'.

 

I'm so glad that you had a such a nice time on Royal Princess, and came away with at least a new perspective on those 'preconceived ideas' you mentioned.

 

I take it your cruising mates didn't like the ship overall as much as you did, as you mentioned "two liked it, two didn't".

 

As per your comment "If the itinerary is that of a relaxing Caribbean cruise – for us it isn’t a good fit". Do you think that if you had one of the amid ship mini-suites with the larger, extended balcony at the 'points' under the SeaView Bar that this would change your opinion?

 

:D

[eroller]

So the whole change is really more a matter of maximizing revenue rather than responding to safety issues, right?

 

 

 

I tend to agree with this statement. There have been new SOLAS regulations which require "safe return to port" design changes, but the entire point of the changes is the hope that the lifesaving equipment will never have to be used, and the ship itself will be the safest means of survival.

 

A great example that proves that cruise ships can still incorporate a traditional promenade deck with the lifeboats on davits housed a deck above is VIKING STAR and her sisters with Viking Ocean Cruises. These are brand new designs currently under construction that of course meet or exceed all SOLAS regulations, and they have a traditional style arrangement of lifeboats and promenade deck. The sacrifice for having this arrangement is about 30 revenue producing balcony cabins above the promenade deck where the lifeboats are housed. Instead Viking decided to make this area an upper level of the atrium.

 

So while there may be some efficiency benefits to the current trend of lifeboats resting directly on the promenade deck, such as speed of loading the boats, I don't think there is any maritime law or regulation that mandates this arrangement. I believe the real catalyst is revenue, as having the lifeboats rest on the deck creates an entire deck above of revenue producing balcony cabins. Simple as that.

[scotslizzy]

for a very informative view and answering our questions.

 

Having just come back from a Celebrity cruise where we had a suite(there were three of us so balcony was huge ) I will struggle with the balcony but we did choose this cruise to ;

 

a)come back to Princess and try the Royal (and that's despite the awful TV prog during the summer in the UK)

 

b) the itinerary is better than Celebrity's offering for a 10 night cruise. The same as this year which we did.

 

So I will go with an open mind and enjoy it all,after all when I'm cruising I'm not working !

 

Cheers

 

Scotslizzy

[dmwnc1959]

A great example that proves that cruise ships can still incorporate a traditional promenade deck with the lifeboats on davits housed a deck above is VIKING STAR and her sisters with Viking Ocean Cruises

 

Hi Ernie,

 

I had previously questioned whether these new Viking Ocean Cruises vessels - with a passenger capacity of under 1000, and a gross tonnage under 50,000 - were either exempt from, or fell outside of the restrictions placed on the much bigger (3,500+ passengers and 100k+ grt) passenger vessels?

 

:D

Edited November 20, 2014 by dmwnc1959

[paddingtonbear]

Bellini's

 

I will answer all three Bellini questions in one response.

 

1. Totally agree with Cubfan63 that the venue is very nice and we did pick up a bottle of champagne there on day one and found that the staff were excellent - in fact we had to wait as Roman and Rebecca wanted us to have some commemorative champagne flutes since the champagne was a higher end bottle and they had to go get the special flutes. Very personable and friendly.

 

 

2. Paddington - as per Cubfan's response - the menu includes Bellini's, champagne, and some wine.

 

3. Scotslizzy - beverage package applies anywhere as long as the drink is less than 10 dollars - which pretty much applies to everything.

 

I hope this answers the questions - if not just ask.

 

thanks

 

Ray

 

 

 

[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

 

Thank you Ray and cubsfan

I have googled a Bellini! By the time I get on the ship I will know everything or at least a whole lot more than I do now!

[eroller]

Hi Ernie,

 

I had previously questioned whether these new Viking Ocean Cruises vessels - with a passenger capacity of under 1000, and a gross tonnage under 50,000 - were either exempt from, or fell outside of the restrictions placed on the much bigger (3,500+ passengers and 100k+ grt) passenger vessels?

 

:D

 

 

I do not believe for ocean going passenger ships there are different rules for different size vessels in this regard. One rule that has changed due to the larger vessels is the lifeboat size. Around the introduction of OASIS OF THE SEAS we have seen larger lifeboat capacity when for many years it was restricted to 150.

 

There are regulations that require an ocean going passenger vessel to be evacuated in a certain amount of time, regardless of the size of vessel. Placing the boats directly on or adjacent to the deck may speed this process, but it depends on the configuration. For instance ships like NORWEGIAN EPIC and the Oasis Class have lifeboats that are suspended outside the hull of the ship. These boats can be boarded in their stationary position and no positioning is necessary. On the contrary, most ships where the boats sit directly on the deck (such as RP & her sister) still require the boats to be positioned for loading. The boats sit too high off the deck to be boarded directly from the deck and would require a ladder to do so. So they are swung out so the boarding door of the boat is flush with the deck. I don't really see how this is any faster than the boat being lowered from the deck above? It still requires an unlocking and positioning of the boat for loading which takes time. Apparently it still meets the evacuation time limit requirement.

 

All this goes back to my belief which I stated earlier, that the current trend we see with lifeboat placement sitting on the deck is primarily revenue driven.

Edited November 20, 2014 by eroller

[skynight]

Vista Lounge – Pretty standard although we felt the seating was more comfortable and there are fewer obstructions when seeing a show.

Princess Live – only walked by – really can’t provide much of a review on this venue.

 

Here were our impressions of these two venues when we were on board in September:

Vista has some poorly designed features including difficult, unsafe seating access and fixed to the deck tables. I actually had to step over these tables to get access to seating. In some rows access is totally blocked by support poles. The fixed tables are shin knockers, and restrict the barrel chair movement. The barrel chairs are too large for the space provided. Upward table lighting makes it difficult to see anything placed on the tables, such as bingo cards, trivia sheets. The dance floor too small, and access through the right and left center aisles is blocked at the front row, not a good feature for events and activities other than shows.

Princess Live is an ill conceived, limited use, dark, poorly accessed, uncomfortable, claustrophobic, non revenue producing venue. During the first dry dock it should be replaced with a real easily accessed, music/dancing, cocktail, revenue producing lounge, something that is really lacking on the Royal Princess. With today's technology one does not require a "studio" to record TV. Just proper lighting.

[RLK33853]

The like/dislike thing went on all cruise for all four of us - overall we did like most things about the Royal with the exception of the balcony.

 

As to your question - if we had one of the midship balconies that were larger would that change our opinion about warm weather cruises? Our answer would be definitely - but again the price point would be the deciding factor.

 

For example - my wife and I usually book a cruise and then let friends or people we have met on cruises over the years know of our intentions. In many instances it is not uncommon for 10 to 14 others to decide to join us. The same goes for the other couples - they book and we join them. This upcoming March a couple from New York state booked the Royal for two 10 day back to backs. We would have very much liked to have joined them but the price point for the same category of mini-suite was substantially more expensive (we can do 14 days on the Caribbean Princess for less than 10 on the Royal) - and that is not including moving to the midship with the bigger balcony. The other couple we were with on this cruise also decided to do the Caribbean Princess even though they wanted to be with the New York couple, again based on pricing. For the couple from New York, the balcony size isn't an issue as they book inside cabins and the inside on the Royal was cheaper than an inside on the Caribbean..

 

So yes - we would consider the larger Royal balcony but this would be price dependent. The other deciding factor for us is the itinerary - and unfortunately for the Royal, it is hard for us to view one Caribbean itinerary much different than another as we have been to every island multiple times and in many cases don't even get off the ship. Now place the Royal in the Mediterranean and we wouldn't hesitate if the pricing was in line with another ship.

 

I hope this answers your questions.

 

thanks

 

Ray

 

 

I take it your cruising mates didn't like the ship overall as much as you did, as you mentioned "two liked it, two didn't".

 

As per your comment "If the itinerary is that of a relaxing Caribbean cruise – for us it isn’t a good fit". Do you think that if you had one of the amid ship mini-suites with the larger, extended balcony at the 'points' under the SeaView Bar that this would change your opinion?

 

:D

[RLK33853]

Usage certainly changes viewpoints - we actually liked the upward table lighting but we never thought about if you were using the table for anything other than setting your drink down. I can see your point.

 

As for dancing the same applies - we danced one night in the Vista but we were right up front and didn't have any difficulty getting to the dance floor.

 

We did note that the barrel chairs were set up differently but they were never in use when we were in the Vista so this wasn't an issue for us.

 

thanks for your thoughts sknight.

 

Ray

Skynight - Here were our impressions of these two venues when we were on board in September:[/size]

Vista has some poorly designed features including difficult, unsafe seating access and fixed to the deck tables. I actually had to step over these tables to get access to seating. In some rows access is totally blocked by support poles. The fixed tables are shin knockers, and restrict the barrel chair movement. The barrel chairs are too large for the space provided. Upward table lighting makes it difficult to see anything placed on the tables, such as bingo cards, trivia sheets. The dance floor too small, and access through the right and left center aisles is blocked at the front row, not a good feature for events and activities other than shows.

Princess Live is an ill conceived, limited use, dark, poorly accessed, uncomfortable, claustrophobic, non revenue producing venue. During the first dry dock it should be replaced with a real easily accessed, music/dancing, cocktail, revenue producing lounge, something that is really lacking on the Royal Princess. With today's technology one does not require a "studio" to record TV. Just proper lighting.

[tully07]

Thanks for the great review -- you answered many of our questions. :) Like many of us, we have often travelled in mini-suites with large balconies [particularly the Emerald deck minis on Ruby, Caribbean and Emerald], so it sounds like we will have a learning curve! That being said, we have booked a mid-ship mini with the larger balcony even though it was more $$ simply because we live on the balcony during these cruises and I need to stay out of the sun as much as possible. If this doesn't work, we'll be back to our more familiar ships asap.

[bdjam]

For instance ships like NORWEGIAN EPIC and the Oasis Class have lifeboats that are suspended outside the hull of the ship. These boats can be boarded in their stationary position and no positioning is necessary.

 

All this goes back to my belief which I stated earlier, that the current trend we see with lifeboat placement sitting on the deck is primarily revenue driven.

Thanks Ernie...and while I hate to concede that RCI might have something on Princess, it would seem that suspending the boats outside the Promenade Deck would be that 'creative' idea that would take care of this issue and provide both the desired egress to the boats and a full promenade. And my reading of SOLAS left me with the same impression - that keeping the ship afloat and returning to port was the best method of survival. I also noticed that much of the requirements in response to Concordia were in the timing of the muster drills.

 

Revenue drive seems to me to be the founding principal of the Royal design, so it would not surprise me if this design decision was made totally for that reason.

Edited November 20, 2014 by bdjam

[eroller]

Thanks Ernie...and while I hate to concede that RCI might have something on Princess, it would seem that suspending the boats outside the Promenade Deck would be that 'creative' idea that would take care of this issue and provide both the desired egress to the boats and a full promenade. And my reading of SOLAS left me with the same impression - that keeping the ship afloat and returning to port was the best method of survival. I also noticed that much of the requirements in response to Concordia were in the timing of the muster drills.

 

Revenue drive seems to me to be the founding principal of the Royal design, so it would not surprise me if this design decision was made totally for that reason.

 

 

 

No need to make any concessions! LOL While I would love to say that RCI is above sacrificing a traditional beloved passenger amenity (such as a true promenade deck) over revenue it's not true. RCI are masters of ship design for sure, and having recently disembarked the maiden crossing of QUANTUM I felt she was superior to RP in just about every way (BTW I also quite enjoyed RP), but one thing that was almost exactly the same was the promenade deck. The boats sit on the deck and there are only patches open to the sea just like on RP. I hate to say it but RCI were really the catalysts of this lifeboat design when the CELEBRITY SOLSTICE made her debut back in 2008. The design was considered a HUGE success, to the point that most other major cruise lines emulated the same style boat arrangement with their new builds. The Oasis Class has a little different arrangement, and while I think more efficient it still does not afford a proper promenade deck. It's a deck that runs behind the lifeboats so there is no view (except for a couple patches) and it's used as the running track.

 

Unfortunately I don't believe this design trend is going away, as the cruise line accountants are in heaven with the notion of how much more revenue these ships will produce over their life span. I have to admit it would be hard for any company to pass up the opportunity. Also the cruise line rationale is that with so many private balconies incorporated into the design, why is a promenade deck needed anyway? Whether valid or not that is their way of thinking.

[WisCruiser2]

Ray - thanks for your "fair and balanced" review! We're looking forward to forming our own opinion at the end of February. We do enjoy spending time on our balcony, so will have to see if it's a deal-breaker...

[dmwnc1959]

I hate to say it but RCI were really the catalysts of this lifeboat design when the CELEBRITY SOLSTICE made her debut back in 2008.

 

 

Odd, too, that the Fanatasia-class of MSC, built in a completely different shipyard than the Solstice-class (STX in St. Nazaire vs MeyerWerft in Papenburg), came out with the deck-mounted lifeboats at nearly the exact same time back in 2008. Were these also the case of being revenue driven? And that the Quantum-class and Mein Sciff 3-class would follow their example?

 

The side mounted lifeboats have also been brought up, but in most all cases it's just been utilized as space for more restaurants and jacuzzi than what's been called a 'proper' promenade deck. The Breakway-class are a perfect example.

 

 

 

The like/dislike thing went on all cruise for all four of us - overall we did like most things about the Royal with the exception of the balcony.

 

As to your question - if we had one of the midship balconies that were larger would that change our opinion about warm weather cruises? Our answer would be definitely - but again the price point would be the deciding factor.

 

So yes - we would consider the larger Royal balcony but this would be price dependent. The other deciding factor for us is the itinerary - and unfortunately for the Royal, it is hard for us to view one Caribbean itinerary much different than another as we have been to every island multiple times and in many cases don't even get off the ship. Now place the Royal in the Mediterranean and we wouldn't hesitate if the pricing was in line with another ship.

 

I hope this answers your questions.

 

thanks

 

Ray

 

 

GREAT answer Ray, and Thank You. I too have been to quite a few of the Caribbean islands multiple times, and rarely get off the ship - I actually pick my cruises now based on the ship itself, and not the itinerary.

 

But having an inside cabin is fine for me right now, however, I am feeling the need for 'something else', and knowing about all of the 'secret' larger balconies will come in handy when choosing one for next time. ;)

 

:D

[chamima]

Thanks for the review.

We just a last minute cruise on the Royal in 2 weeks.

Was the new chocolate menu on the ship?

 

Also, any chance you saw a Headwaiter named Arkadius? We had him last year and would love to see him again.

 

Thanks

[eroller]

Odd, too, that the Fanatasia-class of MSC, built in a completely different shipyard than the Solstice-class (STX in St. Nazaire vs MeyerWerft in Papenburg), came out with the deck-mounted lifeboats at nearly the exact same time back in 2008. Were these also the case of being revenue driven?

 

 

 

Yes I think so. The latest round of designs dating back to the late 2000's are all efficiency driven and certainly more than one shipyard can come up with a similar design. I don't find it odd at all. All the passenger shipyards (there are really only 4 major) follow the latest design traits, compete with the same cruise companies for contracts, and are current with each other to a certain extent. This is why it's not surprising to see similar design traits of ships even with competing cruise lines. The Royal Princess initial design was actually created by Meyer-Werft in Germany (according to Micky Arison) but the contract went to Fincantieri. I don't know exactly how designs are shared between shipyards, but I know it happens with tweaks in the final product of course.

 

All the mass-market cruise lines were looking for the next evolution in cruise ship design when they started the vetting process back in the mid-2000's. They wanted extreme efficiency from an operational standpoint and maximum revenue potential. What we have coming online today and a few years back is the result. Part of that result appears to be this modified lifeboat placement design. As I mentioned before I don't think it's a requirement but a complete evacuation must be accomplished in a specified timeframe regardless of ship size.

[RLK33853]

Thanks for the review.

We just a last minute cruise on the Royal in 2 weeks.

Was the new chocolate menu on the ship?

 

Also, any chance you saw a Headwaiter named Arkadius? We had him last year and would love to see him again.

 

Thanks

 

Unfortunately the chocolate menu was not offered yet - and trust me we looked.............the same with a few of the other new promotions such as the microbrewery beer which is supposed to be introduced by next spring - again it seems to be all about the drinking - must be those friends of ours..........they are such a bad influence.

 

Never saw Arkadius - but they change them around quite a bit and he could have been in the Crown Grill or Sabatinis and we didn't eat at either one this cruise. That said - Giovanni is the main Head Waiter in Concerto (Starboard door) and Roberto is a section waiter there as well. Both will treat you like gold if you spend a minute with either one.

 

Enjoy your cruise - we sure did.

 

Ray

[chamima]

Unfortunately the chocolate menu was not offered yet - and trust me we looked.............the same with a few of the other new promotions such as the microbrewery beer which is supposed to be introduced by next spring - again it seems to be all about the drinking - must be those friends of ours..........they are such a bad influence.

 

Never saw Arkadius - but they change them around quite a bit and he could have been in the Crown Grill or Sabatinis and we didn't eat at either one this cruise. That said - Giovanni is the main Head Waiter in Concerto (Starboard door) and Roberto is a section waiter there as well. Both will treat you like gold if you spend a minute with either one.

 

Enjoy your cruise - we sure did.

 

Ray

 

Thanks Ray!

I know Roberto is probably a common name but we had a Head Waiter named Roberto Zoboli on the old Royal several years ago that I would LOVE to see again! Maybe it's him. :D

[jrzebird]

Then as I say...it's all just conjecture...

 

It's not conjecture. I was merely repeating what I was told by one of the officers on the ship.

 

And, I'm sorry Ray if you felt I hijacked your thread, but I was answering a question someone asked. I was also on this cruise and somehow thought that entitled me to chime in on something about the ship.

 

Maureen

[dmwnc1959]

Hi Ernie,

 

As much as I respect your opinion, I still don't buy the idea that every single mass market cruise line are all but completely eliminating the 'proper' promenade deck in favor of 'revenue'. Maybe if it were on a couple of ships, but not when it happens to all of them. There had to have been a way to maintain that aspect of the ship, without turning it into an outdoor sidewalk cafe, yet none of them, out of four major shipyards worth of marine architects, were able to design themselves around this problem?

 

So, in the mean time, and just like the 'cruise climate-change deniers', until we are given real proof of why this is happening, we will all stick to our story, deal with the results, and agree to disagree.

 

And as you said, this change is not going away any time soon. I'm just glad that they still have 'proper' promenade decks to satisfy their desires.

 

;)

 

 

Yes I think so. The latest round of designs dating back to the late 2000's are all efficiency driven and certainly more than one shipyard can come up with a similar design. I don't find it odd at all. All the passenger shipyards (there are really only 4 major) follow the latest design traits, compete with the same cruise companies for contracts, and are current with each other to a certain extent. This is why it's not surprising to see similar design traits of ships even with competing cruise lines. The Royal Princess initial design was actually created by Meyer-Werft in Germany (according to Micky Arison) but the contract went to Fincantieri. I don't know exactly how designs are shared between shipyards, but I know it happens with tweaks in the final product of course.

 

All the mass-market cruise lines were looking for the next evolution in cruise ship design when they started the vetting process back in the mid-2000's. They wanted extreme efficiency from an operational standpoint and maximum revenue potential. What we have coming online today and a few years back is the result. Part of that result appears to be this modified lifeboat placement design. As I mentioned before I don't think it's a requirement but a complete evacuation must be accomplished in a specified timeframe regardless of ship size.

[eroller]

Hi Ernie,

 

As much as I respect your opinion, I still don't buy the idea that every single mass market cruise line are all but completely eliminating the 'proper' promenade deck in favor of 'revenue'. Maybe if it were on a couple of ships, but not when it happens to all of them. There had to have been a way to maintain that aspect of the ship, without turning it into an outdoor sidewalk cafe, yet none of them, out of four major shipyards worth of marine architects, were able to design themselves around this problem?

 

So, in the mean time, and just like the 'cruise climate-change deniers', until we are given real proof of why this is happening, we will all stick to our story, deal with the results, and agree to disagree.

 

And as you said, this change is not going away any time soon. I'm just glad that they still have 'proper' promenade decks to satisfy their desires.

 

;)

 

 

It's not opinion. I have reviewed SOLAS guidelines and nowhere do they state that lifeboats have to sit on the deck and the elimination of the traditional promenade deck. For whatever reason you find it hard to believe this is revenue driven, but that is exactly what it is.

 

I provided an example with Viking Ocean where the traditional promenade deck is upheld. You dismissed it speculating that perhaps smaller ships have different regulations. I don't buy that. Now you mention that you find it difficult to believe that "every single mass-market cruise line" would put revenue before a traditional promenade. I don't find that difficult to believe at all. Revenue comes first regardless of cruise line. The ability to include an additional deck of balcony cabins is hard to pass up. Besides the cruise line's today believe a traditional promenade deck is no longer necessary due to all the private balconies offered.

 

I will point out another example that again dispels your belief. DISNEY DREAM and DISNEY FANTASY. Brand new designs, mega ships for sure, and both offer traditional promenade decks with the lifeboats housed above the promenade deck that require lowering for loading. Disney actually puts aesthetics before revenue in many cases, opting for curved lines and classic ocean liner looks. That comes at a cost. In the case of Disney they placed a movie theater and kid's clubs in the area behind the lifeboats since an ocean view is not really necessary in these areas. They could have easily placed the lifeboats directly on the deck and added more balcony cabins above just like the rest of the competition but they decided not to. It was important for Disney to maintain certain ocean attributes and a traditional promenade deck was one of them. I don't believe that Disney was given any special exemption from SOLAS regulations to do this, they just felt a promenade deck was important and part of the experience their guests find appealing. Obviously they can still evacuate the ship within the required timeframe or the ships would have never been certified.

Edited November 21, 2014 by eroller